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Ideas on controlling drinking

Old 06-23-2015, 03:48 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Moderation is the holy grail of the alcoholic and just as elusive. Alcoholics for whatever reason are incapable of moderation for a lifetime. There are likely 10,000 posts on SR of failed moderation attempts.

If I could keep it to 1 or 2 I wouldn't be an alcoholic
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MythOfSisyphus View Post
I wish you luck, March1234. SR doesn't really deal much with moderation since it's false hope for most of us. I have read (but not studied in depth) some research that suggests that problem drinkers can learn to drink in moderation. The issue is that the line between 'problem drinker' that can be 'converted' to social drinker and the drinker who cannot is very blurred. It can be hard to tell without a lot of study. In the meantime the subject is liable to die from alcoholism. To most of us alcohol is a poison who's lethal dose we can't be sure of. If you knew something would kill if you if you took enough of it but didn't know how much was enough, why would you ever ingest that again?

It sounds like your ex-wife (and perhaps you) are in denial. It's possible that she'll be one of the "lucky ones" that can white knuckle a glass of wine at dinner twice a month, desperately wishing it was more and simultaneously wishing she could stop. But I tried that approach over the years and failed every time.

The only people that worry about being able to drink are alcoholics. If it was really no big deal why drink at all? I like scallops a lot, but if for reason I developed a deadly allergy to them I wouldn't risk ever eating one again. I'd be mildly bummed out but that would be the end of the matter. If you caught me sneaking a scallop now and then despite my knowing it could be fatal you'd rightly think I was insane.

But that's the insanity of alcoholism. It works its way into your brain and makes you think there's no life without booze. In reality that's the opposite of reality. Sober life is freedom, not deprivations. So long as that pipe dream of moderation is there most of us can't heal and move on with our lives.

I hope you and your ex-wife's case is the exception. I was in a similar situation with my ex-wife but I was the drunk. Nothing got better until I gave up and quit for good.
Thx for the good message... Yes, I hope we are the exception. Im sure that I'm way more concerned about it than she is, because I haven't been really close to her in a long while. We are still new at getting back together, and while some things feels like we never left each other, some things and attitudes are totally different. She seems to take a cavalier attitude about the wine (maybe the wrong word), but she could take it or leave it. She enjoys wine with a dinner occasionally. We go out weekly (maybe more), and wine is the exception not the norm.

I would just like to be in the best position to have the knowledge to solve a problem, before it gets to be major.... any problem.
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Old 06-23-2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by March1234 View Post
Thx for the good message... Yes, I hope we are the exception. Im sure that I'm way more concerned about it than she is, because I haven't been really close to her in a long while. We are still new at getting back together, and while some things feels like we never left each other, some things and attitudes are totally different. She seems to take a cavalier attitude about the wine (maybe the wrong word), but she could take it or leave it. She enjoys wine with a dinner occasionally. We go out weekly (maybe more), and wine is the exception not the norm.

I would just like to be in the best position to have the knowledge to solve a problem, before it gets to be major.... any problem.
A couple of observations.


Absolutely anyone that is an alcoholic and has some sobriety will tell you moderation is impossible. What would make you think that she is the exception?

You are not going to solve her problem. Only she can do that. Your role is how you react to your circumstances
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Old 06-23-2015, 07:46 PM
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Hi March1234. I'm not trying to bum you out but you can't help her control her drinking. If both of you tried for 20 years and eventually the marriage dissolved because of it I highly doubt she is a candidate for moderation. She's not a college student who had too much on spring break. Thoughts of being able to moderate are common among addicts once some clean time is logged, like some magic spell has been broken. She most likely honestly believes she can. You have said that you think the few glasses of wine isn't worth it. That is a sane response. Thinking a little wine is worth getting sucked back in part of the insanity that is addiction.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:15 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by silentrun View Post
Hi March1234. I'm not trying to bum you out but you can't help her control her drinking. If both of you tried for 20 years and eventually the marriage dissolved because of it I highly doubt she is a candidate for moderation. She's not a college student who had too much on spring break. Thoughts of being able to moderate are common among addicts once some clean time is logged, like some magic spell has been broken. She most likely honestly believes she can. You have said that you think the few glasses of wine isn't worth it. That is a sane response. Thinking a little wine is worth getting sucked back in part of the insanity that is addiction.
Silentrun,

Thx for the comments..... a bit confused:

She most likely honestly believes she can. You have said that you think the few glasses of wine isn't worth it. That is a sane response. Thinking a little wine is worth getting sucked back in part of the insanity that is addiction.

Tried to find where I said that to understand what I meant and couldn't, but would you elaborate on the above?
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:51 PM
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I'm also a drinker, but a moderate light beer drinker, and don't ever get high, and as time goes on, I'm consuming less and less. I've told her, if my beer is ever and issue, I'll not drink

Maybe I read too much into this statement. That seems like a pretty sane response to drinking causing or even potentially causing a problem. I feel that way now but I had a real bout of "I can handle it nows" right around a year. I found out that is completely normal for someone who is recovering.
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Old 08-04-2015, 12:44 PM
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Just an update.....

First thx for all the replies here, I've learned a lot. I've also looked into moderation more and found some interesting things. There are studies that indicate that moderation is no better or worse that complete abstinence for controlled drinking.

Things have been very well over the past weeks, with no problems. We have made some progress in that we now openly discuss drinking together, and she is very receptive to my support, which is the best I can give. She has had a few drinks over dinner in the past few weeks, but a non issue.

I didn't not find any good support forums for folks that are doing moderation... if anyone knows of one, please pass it along.

Maybe one day she will quit in the future and that's fine with me, but has to come from her. I must admit, she is strong willed and will often accomplish some difficult challenges. Hope this is one of those.
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by March1234 View Post
I didn't not find any good support forums for folks that are doing moderation... if anyone knows of one, please pass it along.
You can try the HAMS network or Moderation Management; although I cannot offer any statement on their effectiveness. There are also many general self-improvement sites that deal with unhealthy habits. One other topic to investigate would be site for self-defeating behaviors, which might offer some support.
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:57 PM
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I didn't not find any good support forums for folks that are doing moderation...

that makes sense.
if you're "moderating with no issues/problems", then there is no need for support. in fact, it wouldn't be called "moderating". you'd not be talking about it with a special word; it would be irrelevant.
if you're "moderating with difficulties/issues", then , almost by definition, "moderation" isn't "working", and people would more likely simply be getting drunk or show up on abstinence-based recovery sites.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fini View Post
I didn't not find any good support forums for folks that are doing moderation...

that makes sense.
if you're "moderating with no issues/problems", then there is no need for support. in fact, it wouldn't be called "moderating". you'd not be talking about it with a special word; it would be irrelevant.
if you're "moderating with difficulties/issues", then , almost by definition, "moderation" isn't "working", and people would more likely simply be getting drunk or show up on abstinence-based recovery sites.
Good message, but I feel strongly about keeping the moderation (that has no issues now) to stay that way, and support for it is essential. It's a prevention goal, and a "retraining" activity. Similar to how people with skills, will often retrain those skills to be on top of them. Like a teacher that goes back for additional classes or a real estate agent that has continuing education or a pilot that has recurrent training.... all to keep their proficiency, and that's what the goal here is. To be proficient at moderation.

So, yes, help, support and "retraining" are in order.
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:25 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort relating to alcohol consumption , why is alcohol consumption so important?
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by March1234 View Post
So, yes, help, support and "retraining" are in order.
Perhaps this is a good opportunity for you to spearhead some kind of message board or support group for this type of thing.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:19 AM
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connect her to the Hen House here.. we are all a great group of ladies with problems and efforts and care.. and a ton of ideas.. its worth the try... ardy wisconsin..


Originally Posted by March1234 View Post
All,

New to the forum, but was suggest to post here for answers for the following problem:

All,
Looking for some direction as to where to get ideas and/or help to prevent a relapse or alcohol problem from reoccurring with a special friend, whom I'm with... here's the details:

I divorced my wife of 40 years a few years ago because of her alcohol problem that we tried solving for about 20 years without success. After many councilors, expensive full time programs, etc., etc., nothing worked and I gave up. We parted friendly and we remained very good friends after the separation and divorce. We always cared for each other. The years preceding the divorce were difficult,

I did get involved with another woman and came close to making it permanent, but ended up with some issues that couldn't be solved, we parted several months ago.

My ex wife had been sober for the previous 16 months, however, she occasionally had some wine with friends. She had totally quit the binge drinking and remained sober (by definition, I mean not under the influence). I reconnected with her and because of our caring for each other, we are going to try to finish our lives out together. We've been together now for over 3 months, and had only one scare (had two drinks), but otherwise, I've had no issues.

She is still concerned when we talk about it, but we have decided to put the past ugliness and fighting behind us permanently and go forward with a positive future, but we clearly agreed that the alcohol abuse cannot return.

So far, so good.

I'm also a drinker, but a moderate light beer drinker, and don't ever get high, and as time goes on, I'm consuming less and less. I've told her, if my beer is ever and issue, I'll not drink. She does not have an issue with this.

So, here's my question: Where can I go, or what forum can I post in to get information and knowledge that will support her with her soberness? She wants the option to have an occasional glass of wine. Right now it's about twice a month. I want to be positive with her, but I am cautious and concerned about any future problems. I don't want to threaten her or give ultimatums, but be there when or if she needs support to make her succeed. I know that the wine could be an issue and could invite a relapse. I've read that her success with that is around 10%, which is small. But that's better than not being with her at all, so my goal is to work with that and be supportive enough to help her so that it's not a problem.

I'm not a fan of AA, or a lot of the larger organized methods. I feel the best success is getting her to accept the issues and risk (which she has so far).

She has also dramatically changed her whole live in the time we've been apart. Her outlook is better, health and physically condition is better, and she is more active. She has volunteered for some things which has helped a lot. Right now, she is looking for more volunteering.

We also spend time together. We allow for an hour or more when we get up with coffee, and dinners and relax after with tv or just relax watching the sun go down. We do dinner out once a week or more, do outdoor activities like kayaking, walking, etc.

Sounds pretty good, and it is. Just want to keep it that way.

Also, looking for alternative ideas, perhaps hypnosis, medication to prevent drinking, and other things that could be an option.

Comments?
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort relating to alcohol consumption , why is alcohol consumption so important?
Hardly spending much time... But, it's a very important goal to keep alcohol under control, and I've seen when that fails and that can be way more difficult to cure than just paying attention to moderation.

I spend a LOT more time with other relationship goals and help. I do get counseling occasionally, but probably don't need it. I read a lot of good info and articles to my lady on quality relationships, and carry those into our lives. I try to may a significant effort to constantly improve, make her happy and provide for her, in addition to paying attention to my own goals. Alcohol control is just one of those.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:53 AM
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The topic heading says, "Ideas on controlled drinking".

I doubt if anyone has ever achieved "controlled drinking" if and when there is a track record of "out of control drinking" after one starts to drink alcohol.
If one can control their drinking and have no consequences, I don't think one would be here. Why would they be here if they can drink and control the amount they drink, pay their bills, live in a white picket fence home, never smash their car due to drinking, never been to prison because of drinking, never had a divorce because of drinking etc etc. Why would such a moderate drinker even care to look for a rehab ?

We, or I know for me, am here to try and help another who is suffering and wants to find a solution. One of the solutions I can share about is from actual experience of working a well known solution, IF one works it.
The solution I found that works for me, illustrated what happens to one who drinks and cannot stop after the first drink.
So ask yourself, do you want more alcohol after the first drink of alcohol and find you cannot stop and go into all these changes in your personality, and deny it ?
Then the next day or so, after another blackout, do you swear on heavan and earth, "it will never happen again", and it does, and again and again ?
Perhaps then, it will always be that way once alcohol is consumed, there is no moderation because there is no "off switch" for some of us.
And that is why I know I am alcoholic, I never knew the exact meaning of the word before I made such a remarkable discovery, after all the suffering, I have no "off switch" and never had. I was born alcoholic, in other words, how my body reacts to alcohol inside my body, is different to the moderate drinker, or those fortunate enough to have a "off switch". We all got "go" switches, but no "off switches", and that is because once alcohol is consumed, a physical craving for more of the same starts. I cannot crave alcohol unless I put alcohol in my body first.
Craving is physical, what goes, ( or went ) inside my head is mental obsession, in other words, my biggest obsession was, "it will be different this time, just wait and see, I'll show those people, who never invited me to their cosy little get togethers"

See, those who have their little cosy get-together sipping red wine AND able to put the cork back into the bottle to save it for next week or next month, why would they be here ?
I don't know it able to sip a wine and put the cork back on, moderately, and the moderates don't know what it's like to want more either, cos they never experience "more", alcohol.

So what's the solution, or part of ?

Ask yourself if you crave more alcohol, honestly and can't stop no matter how many times you have tried.
And if you are honest within yourself, you probably admit that it's true !!
BUT, will you accept this new found revelation about YOUR drinking?
That's a key, acceptance, from the inner most part of your soul, heart and mind.
Then really, it's not about quitting, it's about accepting and getting on with life without alcohol no matter what.

That's a sweet surrender to the drinking game, cos I know now, it will never change, I will always crave more alcohol and always have as far back as I remember, just one drink and it was, ...., I could write a book.
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ardy View Post
connect her to the Hen House here.. we are all a great group of ladies with problems and efforts and care.. and a ton of ideas.. its worth the try... ardy wisconsin..
Ardy,

What is the Hen House? I did a search and didn't come up with much.
Thanks.
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete55 View Post
The topic heading says, "Ideas on controlled drinking".

I doubt if anyone has ever achieved "controlled drinking" if and when there is a track record of "out of control drinking" after one starts to drink alcohol.
If one can control their drinking and have no consequences, I don't think one would be here. Why would they be here if they can drink and control the amount they drink, pay their bills, live in a white picket fence home, never smash their car due to drinking, never been to prison because of drinking, never had a divorce because of drinking etc etc. Why would such a moderate drinker even care to look for a rehab ?

We, or I know for me, am here to try and help another who is suffering and wants to find a solution. One of the solutions I can share about is from actual experience of working a well known solution, IF one works it.
The solution I found that works for me, illustrated what happens to one who drinks and cannot stop after the first drink.
So ask yourself, do you want more alcohol after the first drink of alcohol and find you cannot stop and go into all these changes in your personality, and deny it ?
Then the next day or so, after another blackout, do you swear on heavan and earth, "it will never happen again", and it does, and again and again ?
Perhaps then, it will always be that way once alcohol is consumed, there is no moderation because there is no "off switch" for some of us.
And that is why I know I am alcoholic, I never knew the exact meaning of the word before I made such a remarkable discovery, after all the suffering, I have no "off switch" and never had. I was born alcoholic, in other words, how my body reacts to alcohol inside my body, is different to the moderate drinker, or those fortunate enough to have a "off switch". We all got "go" switches, but no "off switches", and that is because once alcohol is consumed, a physical craving for more of the same starts. I cannot crave alcohol unless I put alcohol in my body first.
Craving is physical, what goes, ( or went ) inside my head is mental obsession, in other words, my biggest obsession was, "it will be different this time, just wait and see, I'll show those people, who never invited me to their cosy little get togethers"

See, those who have their little cosy get-together sipping red wine AND able to put the cork back into the bottle to save it for next week or next month, why would they be here ?
I don't know it able to sip a wine and put the cork back on, moderately, and the moderates don't know what it's like to want more either, cos they never experience "more", alcohol.

So what's the solution, or part of ?

Ask yourself if you crave more alcohol, honestly and can't stop no matter how many times you have tried.
And if you are honest within yourself, you probably admit that it's true !!
BUT, will you accept this new found revelation about YOUR drinking?
That's a key, acceptance, from the inner most part of your soul, heart and mind.
Then really, it's not about quitting, it's about accepting and getting on with life without alcohol no matter what.

That's a sweet surrender to the drinking game, cos I know now, it will never change, I will always crave more alcohol and always have as far back as I remember, just one drink and it was, ...., I could write a book.
Pete,

If you do some searches on controlled drinking you'll see that the success rate is about the same as abstinence.

The reason I'm here, as I've stated several times... is JUST THAT.... to control drinking. The past has been ugly, with divorce as a result of drinking. That's bad enough and don't want to see it get to that level. And that's where the control comes in. Today it's fine, but like I mentioned above with other disciplines, that require keeping up and retraining.... I feel that controlled drinking requires some monitoring and control, too, based on my readings.

Right now it's fine, and has been pretty well for some 18 month. I need to keep it that way, and I've picked up ideas here and hope to pick up more.
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:27 AM
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But, it's a very important goal to keep alcohol under control,

yes, i remember how that was.
for me, an ever-elusive goal, which i valiantly tried to achieve for three decades.
no-one can accuse me of not trying hard enough, ha!

please realize that on these forums you're speaking with people who could not control. this is what brought us here.
we already tried all the ways and ideas
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by March1234 View Post
Pete,

If you do some searches on controlled drinking you'll see that the success rate is about the same as abstinence.

The reason I'm here, as I've stated several times... is JUST THAT.... to control drinking. The past has been ugly, with divorce as a result of drinking. That's bad enough and don't want to see it get to that level. And that's where the control comes in. Today it's fine, but like I mentioned above with other disciplines, that require keeping up and retraining.... I feel that controlled drinking requires some monitoring and control, too, based on my readings.

Right now it's fine, and has been pretty well for some 18 month. I need to keep it that way, and I've picked up ideas here and hope to pick up more.
Marcher - do I understand this correctly?

You need to control and monitor your ex wife / current lover with regards to her now learning to be proficient moderate retrained drinker even though she was a problem drinker for over 20 years and you ultimately blame the amicable divorce on her drinking?


Gotta say friend, good luck with all the moving parts. Wish you all the best, but sounds like folly to this ole drunk.......
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:55 AM
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Pete,

If you do some searches on controlled drinking you'll see that the success rate is about the same as abstinence.

The reason I'm here, as I've stated several times... is JUST THAT.... to control drinking. The past has been ugly, with divorce as a result of drinking. That's bad enough and don't want to see it get to that level. And that's where the control comes in. Today it's fine, but like I mentioned above with other disciplines, that require keeping up and retraining.... I feel that controlled drinking requires some monitoring and control, too, based on my readings.

Right now it's fine, and has been pretty well for some 18 month. I need to keep it that way, and I've picked up ideas here and hope to pick up more.
Well excuse me ,
I find it easier to abstain, than try to control.
You probably don't have the other part of the drinking experience, that change of personality, as soon as alcohol host the brain cells, you would be deluded if one say's it can be "controlled",
Ya what really is wrong with these "you can controll your drinking" types?
it's dangerous, very dangerous to encourage a suffering drinker, "learn to control" because there is no medical factual proof that alcohol as a chemical does not do things that deludes one, they then get in a car, and ...., and.
Very dangerous what you people say, and as once a proffesional driver for a living, I know what I seen due to alcohol related consequences.
You are probably not a real alcoholic, but one who has had a bit too many and got drunk.

We don't get drunk, we get plastered.

There is no way one who truly identifies as a real alkie can ever gain control.
The experience about my own drinking when I drank alcohol and those I have identified with or identify with me, say there is no control, period.
All these books and stuff may be ok for some, but my bet is not a day goes by where there is that tiny tiny voice inside you, daring and daring, saying" just one more, just one teeeeny weeny little more"
Fancy having to put up with that for the rest of ya life, ( plural, don't mean it personally).

If that's what I gotta do for the rest of my life to "control" my drinking, then abstinence is not a choice, it's a, "no longer on the radar", my better and safer bet.

If it's not on the radar, that means I /wecan go anywhere where there is alcohol and simply drink water.
We do it all the time when now invited back with family etc, cos we "know"alcohol in it's atomic structure does not blend in well with the cells of the human body, it's methane, stuff cars run on, and one expects to control the consequences by drinking it ?
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