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Old 06-01-2015, 08:59 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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OK, Not looking to rile anyone here but.. Isn't externalizing your desire to drink and blaming it on "The Beast" pretty much the same as blaming it on your "Disease". Which one can do you think can do more push ups in the parking lot?
Sorry. I actually do understand AVRT so no need to explain. A lot of it makes sense but it's just something that popped in my head.
I've researched many recovery methods and most have their points. The thing is I just learned by getting badly burned sooo many times not to put my hand on the stove. It hurts! Maybe I'm just getting old and tired. My beast has about as much energy as this 14 year old cat laying here next to me on the couch.
Good luck with your journey!
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Old 06-01-2015, 09:18 PM
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Thanks, esinger. I would just change the "externalizing" to "compartmentalizing". Even though I know I shouldn't drink, and all the bad crap that will come if I do, part of me still wants to. If you're familiar with AVRT then you already know all this. I'm just practicing looking at any thoughts of drinking objectively here. Keeping things in perspective rather than just sitting through urges riding them out.

AV wanted to leave band practice early tonight, before the liquor stores closed. Didn't happen.
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Old 06-01-2015, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SDH73 View Post
Thanks, esinger. I would just change the "externalizing" to "compartmentalizing". Even though I know I shouldn't drink, and all the bad crap that will come if I do, part of me still wants to. If you're familiar with AVRT then you already know all this. I'm just practicing looking at any thoughts of drinking objectively here. Keeping things in perspective rather than just sitting through urges riding them out.

AV wanted to leave band practice early tonight, before the liquor stores closed. Didn't happen.
I get it. Think I've gotten to the point where I rarely have urges to drink and when I do the repulsive memory of my drinking days pushes them aside. Wish I had as much info when I started my journey as I do now. If it's working for you, keep at it.
If my post was inappropriate, I apologize.
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Old 06-01-2015, 09:50 PM
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Glad to hear you're doing well, esinger. I am by no means a veteran at this getting sober business. When I signed up on this site a few months ago I knew absolutely nothing about how to get sober. It never occurred to me that I could just...not drink! I'm still figuring things out, but RR resonates with me. Did you just decide you were done and stop drinking, or did you work some sort of program?
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SDH73 View Post
When I signed up on this site a few months ago I knew absolutely nothing about how to get sober. It never occurred to me that I could just...not drink! I'm still figuring things out
x2 man, exactly the same as that. I read around for a bit and decided to aim for 90 days, bit of a rollecoaster but I made it and doing well on that front.

I never saw my problem as drink. I knew it was causing me problems, and was becoming a problem in that it was costing me all my money just to sleep.

Anyway I'm sober now but it sure aint no fun to me. The doctors where right though in that I needed to sober up before addressing all of my problems.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:05 PM
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You sleeping nowadays, Strat? I know that was an issue for you.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:12 PM
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No 3 day insomnia parties as in the beginning, but my pattern is very irregular still.

I pulled an all nighter for no apparent reason through yesterday and the day before.

I was just saying to someone how over-tiredness is the only kind of 'break' I get now.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:16 PM
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Ugh! That's got to be difficult to deal with. Last week I pulled an all-nighter (not drinking, just couldn't sleep), made for a lousy day at work. Good to hear you're still on track not drinking, though! Hopefully, like the docs said, things will be easier to work out without booze in the equation.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:26 PM
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Well, I'm a long time insomniac and it used to frustrate me very badly tbh.

Now I just run with it and let myself get fruity if it happens, disco tunes etc.

It's been happening a lot less though recently thankfully. Hey, cheers man.

Yeah I have about 20 years of repressed experience now to be dealing with.

Like I said no fun but if I don't it's always going to manifest itself in some way.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:39 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SDH73 View Post
Glad to hear you're doing well, esinger. I am by no means a veteran at this getting sober business. When I signed up on this site a few months ago I knew absolutely nothing about how to get sober. It never occurred to me that I could just...not drink! I'm still figuring things out, but RR resonates with me. Did you just decide you were done and stop drinking, or did you work some sort of program?
Well lets just say I didn't have much of a choice. Things got really ugly and after an unsuccessful stint in the most wide spread program, I went to rehab. That led me back to the same program. The dogma and repetition made my brain hurt so much I couldn't take it any more. I realized that the bottom line is I just can't drink if I want to survive. A lot of my drinking was due to social anxiety and stress due to being over my head in my career. Long term self medication lead to a pretty bad physical addiction. I've changed my career path and have dealt with the anxiety through some counselling early on and some CBT methods I picked up from one of my counsellors. I'm by no means an expert on any of this. Seems like I have picked up a new addiction though, to reading and learning. Wish I had done that 35 years ago.
Stay on your path. Sounds like you've got a good plan.
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:11 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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That all sounds pretty horrific, esinger. Sounds like things are much better for you now, though. Yes, reading and learning...it's nice to read a book and actually retain some of it. Can't tell you how many books I've read over the last few years that I couldn't tell you anything about.

Back to the "Disease" vs "The Beast" thing. I'm not the scholar that many here are, but it seems to me that one of the important differences is that with AVRT we recognize that thoughts of drinking (AV) come from ourselves, and that we have the power to not act on those thoughts. As opposed to being afflicted with a "Disease". Drinking is not something that happens to us, but is a choice that we are faced with. In the end it is completely within our own power to simply choose not to drink.

I know you're familiar with AVRT, but I thought it'd be good practice for me to try and explain anyway. Be well.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:21 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Sorry I couldn't resist! I have nothing against AA in fact I'm going to meeting right now and using AVRT. I just can't get behind the opinion that it's a disease. I think that it's a choice and a compulsive behaviour.

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Old 06-02-2015, 06:57 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by esinger View Post
OK, Not looking to rile anyone here but.. Isn't externalizing your desire to drink and blaming it on "The Beast" pretty much the same as blaming it on your "Disease". Which one can do you think can do more push ups in the parking lot?
Sorry. I actually do understand AVRT so no need to explain. A lot of it makes sense but it's just something that popped in my head.
I've researched many recovery methods and most have their points. The thing is I just learned by getting badly burned sooo many times not to put my hand on the stove. It hurts! Maybe I'm just getting old and tired. My beast has about as much energy as this 14 year old cat laying here next to me on the couch.
Good luck with your journey!
They are not remotely the same. One is based on the disease model of addiction which enslaves people and one on the structural model, which frees people. In addition, the Beast concept is useless without a knowledge of applied AVRT. You don't blame the Beast, you recognize it. I cracks me up how people from other recovery methods have co-opted AVRT terms and and are now using them interchangeably as synonyms for disease and addiction. Good luck with that.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:33 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Is there something about physical exercise that gets it all riled up?

it might just be thirst. as in need some h2o.

maybe nurse a couple later on tonight.

beer doesn't need nursing. it's not a baby.
neither do you need nursing. you're not a baby
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:06 AM
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Yes, fini. Beers and babies...totally different things. As for whether or not I'm a big baby...well, an argument could be made...
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sdh73 View Post
yes, fini. Beers and babies...totally different things. As for whether or not i'm a big baby...well, an argument could be made...
lmfao!
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Old 06-02-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenwood618 View Post
They are not remotely the same. One is based on the disease model of addiction which enslaves people and one on the structural model, which frees people. In addition, the Beast concept is useless without a knowledge of applied AVRT. You don't blame the Beast, you recognize it. I cracks me up how people from other recovery methods have co-opted AVRT terms and and are now using them interchangeably as synonyms for disease and addiction. Good luck with that.
OK, I only made an off the cuff statement as everyone thread was going on about what the beast was telling or wanting them to do. I believe substance abuse to be an uneducated bad choice followed by a physical and psychological compulsion, not a disease. I'm not from any other recovery method other than my own. This just popped in my head and I guess was a bit insensitive. It did produce a discussion about the differences and throw some good info out there. So, I guess that's not a bad thing. I have a bad habit of stirring the pot. I guess people from all schools of thinking are very compassionate about their mode of recovery as I seem to rile them all up.
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Old 06-02-2015, 05:07 PM
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No worries, esinger. You made me think, and that's a good thing.

Beast is quiet today. I have today and tomorrow off from work so I was ready for a steady barrage of attacks. Just lying in wait, I reckon.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SDH73 View Post
Yes, fini. Beers and babies...totally different things. As for whether or not I'm a big baby...well, an argument could be made...
ja but...we won't be making any arguments, yes??

i was laughing too, of course.
i have a thing about clues to as well as almost-prescriptions for our thinking being in the words we use, often so unthinkingly.

"nursing a beer".

bizarro!
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:45 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by esinger View Post
...Isn't externalizing your desire to drink and blaming it on "The Beast" pretty much the same as blaming it on your "Disease"....
That's pretty much where I wound up, http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...g-reptile.html, but it took me a long time to get there. Meanwhile I think it's totally harmless if it helps, and it helped me.
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