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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 6

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 6

Old 03-06-2015, 03:57 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Interesting Lonely. I know that during a blackout I did things I did not remember, sometimes for hours. Then there were times when I was fully aware - not drunk yet but it was like an involuntary action. In robot voice, "Go into garage, get beer, drink from bottle of vodka, chug beer. Repeat." I don't think it was so much as the "beast" in my head telling me to do this as it was I was just programmed to do it.
Kind of like a fish in a stream - he is constantly swimming but is unaware of it.

I believe the beast mentality comes after we sober up. It wants and isn't getting. And it tries all kinds of tricks to get what it wants.
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by LonelyShadow View Post
Back to the discussion of AVRT -

I find it helpful to remember the Beast has no physical capabilities of it's own, it can only use yours.

But I was intrigued to read in RR; TNC about the Beast taking control of motor functions. In the anecdote about the man feeling exhausted after a day at work, then he gets the idea to have a drink and suddenly he feels awash with energy. I've felt the exact same exhilaration in the past and was wondering then;

If the midbrain controls the release of pituitary functions such as adrenaline release, is this something the AV does to you? Or is the rush of energy and sudden lift in mood only a result of when You (Neocortex) has failed to recognise the AV and made the decision to drink/use?
The Beast cannot use or control my motor function in any way. IT can only hope that I will change my mind and do what IT'S quadriplegic self wants me to do with my muscles.

"...the rush of energy and sudden lift in mood..." IS the Addictive Voice.
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Old 03-06-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
Anhedonia is a word I learned from this site.
Alcohol-induced anhedonia is temporary. Projecting how you feel on any given day into the future and believing it is how you will always feel disregards past experience in favor of the immediate. When I start falling into this trap I have to take a mental timeout, step back, and view the big picture again.

Sober living isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. Train accordingly.
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:34 AM
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@gerandtwine "the goal of AVRT-based recovery is to live comfortably with residual addictive desire... You should welcome the AV as a sign of health." This is all I'm getting at. Also I could not find Trimpey's Beast in a TESS search but that's beside the point. Cheers!
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:59 AM
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An old Concept I like goes along the lines of 'If you're so upset about situation 'x' today, try to remember what upset you on this same day 1 year ago'. Of course, most of us can't. This lil Exercise 'calibrates' the relative [in]significance of whatever has us torqued today.

If it's useful, one could similarly recall 1 year ago some Event that we thought justified Drinking. The trick then, IMO, would be to recall with vivid, unblinking clarity the consequences and feelings that followed.

These lil, optional Course Corrections keep me focused on the now-rare occasions where I even need such reminders ~14 months in.

Bart Simpson's got it all figgered out. ~30 seconds this morning of a Mantra slightly different than his keeps me on track today. A very efficient, Self-Directed use of my time that keeps me free for Recovered fun today vs. being Handcuffed to some Regimen.

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Old 03-07-2015, 09:39 AM
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People break commitments and recommit. We are human. Not to let you off the hook, but as much as we feel comfort in the black and white of AVRT, we must admit that life will always be messy. In the words of the Queen, Keep Calm and Carry On.
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:15 AM
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The black and white aspect of AVRT and the messiness of life are separate issues. Intertwining the two is where recovery as a process has its foundation. Ending an addiction has to do with stopping the continued abuse of a substance. Abstinence is the ultimate solution for abuse of a substance.
AVRT and its methodology is focused on the cessation of an active addiction by committing to abstinence, that commitment does/will lead to unmessing some aspects of life, but as far as that messiness was caused by drinking/using. Life can be messy for/from myriad reasons, allowing the idea that drinking/using is caused by reactions to the messiness is to ,I think, misidentify the cause and at the same time give power to rationalizing continued use/abuse.
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:32 AM
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I continue to hold the position that battle and alienation with the beast is unhealthy. I suggest we look more toward integration, self-esteem, and wholeness with the idea that ultimately the beast is a valued servant. Until we can do that we will be at war with ourselves. Right brains, feelers and healers, can I get some help up in here?
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:59 AM
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I consider the beast or AV as being a very delineated group of thoughts/urges/mental suggestions that view drinking as a positive. Not so much as the mechanism that gives rise to the voice. The lizard/reptilian/lower brain, or brain function is "there" , I can integrate its existence with the experience of some of its "products". The same mechanism can be said to be the source of such things , good things for survival, like the fight or flight response, the mechanism that inputs some physical sensation, or really the recognition of such sensations, like the feeling of thirst/hunger to trigger more thought on the subject that will lead to action.
For me all positive thoughts experienced about alcohol use are lumped together and assigned the term beast , I separate them from "myself" and dismiss them. The more time that has elapsed since my last drink, the less the need for war has arisen. I like my lizard brain, I need it really, I just dismiss its dumbass notions, about somethings
I choose not drink ever again, no matter what even "he" thinks about it. And he seems to be getting the idea , I hope he gave up forever, but even he hasn't , it won't change My mind.
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Old 03-07-2015, 02:35 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by WhatBeast View Post
People break commitments and recommit. We are human. Not to let you off the hook, but as much as we feel comfort in the black and white of AVRT, we must admit that life will always be messy. In the words of the Queen, Keep Calm and Carry On.
I believe in the context of AVRT and this thread's purpose, the above quote is the Addictive Voice.

From the get-go of my quitting alcohol, I was aware at the stark reality of its simplicity and non-complexity.

Keeping Alcohol Out Of My Mouth is one of the most exacting and obviously simple impositions I had ever placed upon myself.

My mouth is one inch from my nose, and about two and a half inches from my eyes. Can alcohol sneak up and dribble in without my knowing?

Alcohol has to be procured. It's not like picking my nose. How long before I recognize that alcohol is within reach of my arms, and how did I get this close? (not that being close is any problem).

Yes, many things in life are messy, and people change their minds about a lot of stuff, but those two concepts are the antithesis of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique and The Big Plan.
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Old 03-07-2015, 02:47 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by WhatBeast View Post
I continue to hold the position that battle and alienation with the beast is unhealthy. I suggest we look more toward integration, self-esteem, and wholeness with the idea that ultimately the beast is a valued servant. Until we can do that we will be at war with ourselves. Right brains, feelers and healers, can I get some help up in here?
You have every right to believe what you choose, but I believe it's useful to point out that the direct goal of The Big Plan backed up by Addictive Voice Recognition Technique is to actually try to KILL that Beast of Rational Recovery. IT may never completely die, but in my case (and Soberlicious also realizes this in herself) I no longer recall the sensation of being under the influence of alcohol. I do not remember what it feels like to be drunk or even buzzed. In terms of my personal morality - "I have forgotten to do evil" (from a 17th century publication about temperance and patience). I believe this is what happens to the vast majority of people who end addictions (and recoveryism if attempted) for good and get on with life.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:04 PM
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I do not remember what it feels like to be drunk or even buzzed.
I find this a genuinely remarkable statement, GT.
In terms of RR, because I do remember what it felt like, does that mean my AV is still active?

(not looking for an argument - genuinely intrigued )

D
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WhatBeast View Post
Right brains, feelers and healers, can I get some help up in here?
You can keep your beast in a cage with a door and take it out and pet its fur from time to time.

GT can suffocate his.

If you both live fulfilling sober lives the debate over the merits of either point of view don't concern me.

If I met a bottomed-out drunk who got sober because he believed an invisible poop demon was following him around and if he ever drank again the demon would bury him alive in poop, I'd congratulate him on overcoming his addiction. I see no upside in convincing him his technique is imperfect.
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WhatBeast View Post
I continue to hold the position that battle and alienation with the beast is unhealthy. I suggest we look more toward integration, self-esteem, and wholeness with the idea that ultimately the beast is a valued servant.
Completely agree, reintegration wound up being critical for me after I grew tired of battle and feeling split in two, and the key to calm wholeness and moving on past recovery. Love the reptile, he's part of me, but my frontal lobes are in charge and will stay in charge always. That was a very important milesone for me, about 18 months in.
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:50 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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I think sensations only happen in "realtime". I know I've been tickled in the past, thinking back on being tickled I can't feel it. Similar to I know what chocolate tastes like, but simply by thinking about chocolate I can't experience the sensation of what it tastes like.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:01 PM
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I have been struggling... have drank. I am questioning if I can indeed live a total sober life. I feel like a turkey for laying that out there for all of you. You are not my therapists... maybe I should seek one out. Sorry about that.

I am another one who just can't be so black and white about the issue... shades of grey. And not the shite movie/books which is not about S&M. Master and slave, D/s. I'm sure it's all my AV but I can't guarantee that I will never drink again and never change my mind. I equate addiction to something very similar to a S&M relationship... you can only give away your power if you choose to. No one/thing can Dominate YOU unless you allow them to. It's a two way street. You have to be complicate in that exchange.
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Old 03-07-2015, 09:45 PM
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My understanding of Addictive Voice (AV) as the sole cause of addiction, is any thinking which supports possible future drinking. The Beast, (Desire to be drunk) makes as much use as IT can of whatever thoughts and feelings it can organize into AV so as to get me to actually drink, since without my physically using alcohol, the Beast can never be satisfied. AV is to the Beast what a bark is to a dog. AV is the Beast speaking.

Myself, I have no difficulty remembering past times of being drunk. I'll never forget what it was like. I remember by free choice. Can I think about my PAST drinking without creating present or future desire to be drunk? Yeah, no problem. Thinking about my past experiences with alcohol doesn't cause me harm.

As for what it does to my Beast, that is a different matter. Just my claiming to be a recovered alcoholic drug addict stirs my Beast and I can hear IT speak to me with AV. Same with when remembering the pleasure of past drinking stirs my Beast. This has been going on for decades now without consequences. Doesn't bother me. Makes my Beast wail though unsatisfied since I don't drink and never will again. Unlike my Beast though, I myself pay no price for my remembering. There is no downside to my Beast suffering. What little AV it can now manage is inconsequential and nothing for me to be concerned about.

For transparency, although I continue to make good use of AVRT, taking what I need, I'm not a purist practitioner.
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Old 03-08-2015, 12:55 AM
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Zenchaser sorry to hear that you're struggling, I find that with AVRT that if you've ended up drinking again it's either because you;

1. Failed to recognise the Addictive Voice
2. Recognised It and chose to drink anyway

It sounds to me like you've CHOSEN to give your power away! Think about why you decided to quit in the first place. Knock it off with the drinking and get back into sobriety. Deep down, you know that drinking is the WRONG decision.

---

I think remembering the buzz of alcohol isn't necessarily a sign of the AV in itself but I think the Beast will certainly try to use it (As It will try to use anything) to gain some leverage over You.

I think of it like remembering past bad relationships, I may find myself wistfully remembering the good times and pushing the bad memories aside for a moment or two. That doesn't mean I'm going to call her up and beg to have her back. Just means I had a brief thought. Nothing needs to be acted upon.

---

As for integrating the Beast and accepting it as part of who you are, I think there might be some confusion in that the midbrain (It) does serve very useful functions in that it creates the desire to eat, sleep, reproduce, find shelter etc... Of course those parts of the midbrain need to be welcomed and accepted, naturally the midbrain always demands "MORE!" and we (Neocortex) have to intervene and limit our food intake, understand when sex is appropriate etc and that is part of being human and internally understanding how to handle our base, animal desires is part of life. But somewhere along the line the midbrain became confused and came to believe alcohol/drugs were as essential to survival as everything else that gives us pleasure. THAT urge/desire is the Addictive Voice. And I firmly believe, as the midbrain is WRONG on that one. The Addictive Voice cannot and should not be accepted as a part of you, it can't be played with or toyed with and I don't believe it's helpful for growth at all.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
Myself, I have no difficulty remembering past times of being drunk. I'll never forget what it was like. I remember by free choice. Can I think about my PAST drinking without creating present or future desire to be drunk? Yeah, no problem. Thinking about my past experiences with alcohol doesn't cause me harm.
The above statement is true for me as well. Nevertheless, it is also true that I cannot remember the SENSATION of being under the influence of alcohol. I no longer know what it actually feels like to be drunk or buzzed.

I did have a drinking dream a few months ago. The sensation I recall from the dream was most like a deep fatigue. No sensation of pleasure.

In early years of abstinence I had recurring drinking dreams the context of which I still remember, and I know I experienced the deep pleasure back then, but today I cannot recall it.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by LonelyShadow View Post
It sounds to me like you've CHOSEN to give your power away!
There is a simple exercise in RR that proves the Beast is always a quadriplegic. Hold your hand in front of your face and tell the Beast to try to move your fingers. See? It is impossible to relinquish control of your voluntary muscles to some entity other than yourself.

People don't relinquish the power to drink while wishing they weren't drinking at the same time. They decide to drink and drink.
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