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Wish I'd Read Rational Recovery Sooner!

Old 11-09-2014, 12:57 AM
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Wish I'd Read Rational Recovery Sooner!

Hello all in this forum,

I have recently read Rational Recovery, and I have to say; Wow.

I WISH I had read it sooner. I feel so free from the strange, contradictory principles of AA. What I knew intuitively to be true is laid out plain and simple in this book.

I feel like I am armed and empowered against addiction. And for the first time in recovery I feel fully capable of never drinking again, and never changing my mind.

Peace and strength all.
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:37 PM
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Congratulations, LonelyShadow, on choosing to take control over this and get sober, once and for all. I guess it's one of those things that is impossible to do, for a hundred reasons, until you decide to do it no matter what, tahell with what anyone else says.

It's not a widely published fact, but a fact nonetheless, that about 75% of us who quit drinking do it just as you have done. Who knew!

Keep your awareness alive for AV, in yourself and others. Obviously it is the source of those thoughts of drinking again, some day. I mean who can really predict the future after all? The AV is also present in thoughts of self doubt and inability to make this plan to never again drink and stick to it. A few examples - If I could quit, I certainly would have quit by now. I've thought about quitting before and tried all sorts of things but still ended up drinking. Even if I could quit, I can't do it today. No wonder I'm going to drink again, just look at all the people who say they can't quit either.

By believing in yourself, you ARE armed and empowered. Of course you are able to make that choice to stop doing this thing that is killing you. Of course you are able to choose to have some self respect, some peace and joy, and even a little happiness. Of course you are able to make this a moral issue for you, and do the right thing for yourself and for those near you who make life worth living.

This is a life changing moment for you, LonelyShadow. You quit drinking! Since you have accomplished this, what's next? There are few limits for you now. Onward!
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:40 PM
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Really pleased to hear this, LonelyShadow; finding the right fit is key, huh?

What I like about Rational Recovery and AVRT is that they make such sense.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:12 PM
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Glad you enjoyed the perspective. I really think you have to be ready to hear the message. I'd owned the book perhaps 15 years, I do recall an attempt to read it before, but it did not speak to me then. Twas not the fault of the message sender, it was the receiver. I was able to maintain years of sobriety with no external support, but was having difficulties 'staying there' the last few years, and had been in and out of sobriety. AVRT helps me reinforce the message I send to myself about the correct stance on consuming alcohol.
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Old 11-10-2014, 01:47 AM
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I first learned about 'The AV' back in February when I joined this site, and I thought it was a concept from AA, so glad that it isn't! It's been a massive help to recognise it for what it is because I was very much aware of it before.

I did like SOME of the concepts from AA but really my alarm bells were ringing so often that it just didn't work for me. It was just far too often that things would be talked about that literally had nothing to do with sobriety, and it's infuriating that when you raise any sort of critisism or even ask a question it's just met with a sort of smugness and a "Just keep coming to meetings", which doesn't answer any questions and left me very confused.

I thought AA would be a place for people recovering from addiction to share experiences and tips on what works, but instead there was this strange, melancholy atmosphere where everyone just spoke as if they were DOOMED.

Sobriety so far has directly given me

* Savings in the bank
* I've lost 25kg of fat and become strong and fit
* I applied for, attended and passed with flying colours my Gym Instructor Level 2 Course
* I now work as a Gym Instructor
* Published two poetry anthologies and a collection of short stories
* Depression has GONE (I believe it was depresso-addiction as mentioned in RR?)
* New friends and better relationships with my family

Now, I owe all of this to sobriety and to my continued hard work and effort and it feels fantastic, in RR I get to keep my pride in my accomplishments. In AA i'd have to ascribe all of that success to a higher power and my pride would probably be seen as ego and somehow not morally conducive to sobriety.

Thanks for the support all (SoberLeigh great to see you )

Peace and strength!
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Old 11-10-2014, 03:14 AM
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LS, you're making me feel like an underachiever. Isn't it great when we find something that really works for us?

Well done and keep it up.
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Old 11-12-2014, 10:31 AM
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Silly question I guess but where would I be able to buy the rational recovery book.... and can it be bought for a kindle?
Xx
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:44 AM
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Not silly at all. I know you can get it on Amazon.com, petals, but there's no Kindle version, I looked a while back.
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Old 11-12-2014, 12:52 PM
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The Rational Recovery website is an excellent place to start for information about AVRT. In particular, take a look at the Crash Course on AVRT.
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Old 11-12-2014, 09:13 PM
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Congrats LS! I got it too. I guess a lot of us did and it seems to be catching. I see the term AV used a lot here by steppers also so it must resonate with many.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by LonelyShadow View Post
I first learned about 'The AV' back in February when I joined this site, and I thought it was a concept from AA, so glad that it isn't! It's been a massive help to recognise it for what it is because I was very much aware of it before.

I did like SOME of the concepts from AA but really my alarm bells were ringing so often that it just didn't work for me. It was just far too often that things would be talked about that literally had nothing to do with sobriety, and it's infuriating that when you raise any sort of critisism or even ask a question it's just met with a sort of smugness and a "Just keep coming to meetings", which doesn't answer any questions and left me very confused.

I thought AA would be a place for people recovering from addiction to share experiences and tips on what works, but instead there was this strange, melancholy atmosphere where everyone just spoke as if they were DOOMED.

In AA i'd have to ascribe all of that success to a higher power and my pride would probably be seen as ego and somehow not morally conducive to sobriety.
This is worth repeating. Glad I'm not the only one who experienced this same feeling.

I pop into a meeting to say hello to some people occasionally. The amazing thing is how, after many months not seeing me, they assume I'm there because I "picked up" again and needed to come back. We're glad you made it back... As if I had to crawl or something. When it is realized that I have not had a drink - or desire - since they last saw me it seems almost as a let down to them. And I am dismissed... Sad but true.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:19 PM
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I'm going to have to give this a read. Sounds like the right kind of motivation for me.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:46 AM
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Self Contained

WAY back when, before Underwater Divers had SCUBA Tanks of Air on their Backs, they'd wear massive Helmets that sealed around their upper Bodies. Or, they'd wear entire Suits with such a Helmet. While they labored Underwater, Air would be pumped down through Tubing to this Helmet from a Motor, or Foot-driven Mechanical Pump, on a Boat above. Well, a Pump or Tubing or Seal failure meant Drowning in that high-risk Profession.

SCUBA Tanks came along, and I think we're all familiar with those. Air on your Back; controlled and monitored by the Underwater Diver. Self contained.

To me, RR/AVRT is like having my Sobriety/Recovery SCUBA Tank 'Air' with me at all times. Bars. Wedding Receptions. Dinners out with 3 Drinkers, as was the case last night, w/o issues whatsoever at some Joint known for many Tequilas. No dependence on external 'Routines', or having to call someone. I just cruise around in my self-contained Sobriety Zone. Lovin' Live. And, I am. The proverbial Big Kahuna that keeps me on track, and free of potential Triggers, is my Mind; acting in effortless conformance to my Big Plan. My Mind is never in a position to 'not take my call', so to speak. RR/AVRT ensures that everything I need has been internalized.

Of any number of falsehoods thrown about, one is that RR/AVRT is going it 'alone'. Closer examination exposes this baseless Stereotype for what it is. I stay logged into SR on all 3 of my Electronic Devices; simply to read up on what Folks here are up to. It makes standing in line at the Grocery Store into productive time, for example. I've never looked at SR while 'White Knuckling' it to help prevent me from picking up. I suppose one could do that, too. We're on the move between 3 Houses, and Trailer Camping, etc.. So, flexible, virtual, on-line support for my etched-in-Stone Mindset of never Drinking again is where's it at. For me.

I pal up with former Drinkers/Tokers in my Carbon-based discussions. It's nice mixing it up: virtual Pals here, and Carbon-based Pals at, say, our local Dog Park. Like me, they also just up and quit. We're everywhere, but don't necessarily broadcast our presence, or Recovery Method.

Casting off the Ankle Chain of Addiction was Step #1. Casting off the Ankle Chain of external Program Dependency was Step #2. Freedom from Alcohol/Drugs rocks! Freedom to engage in a Free Thinking Recovery Method that's a flexible fit rocks as well.

I had no interest in living a Life of Recovery. I was interested in living a Recovered Life. I am doing so.

-----
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:54 AM
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Thanks MesaMan that's a great post!

What an accurate analogy!

ZeldaFan yes I would highly recommend giving it a read

For me there was a big change in my thinking when I began to think of my addiction as my responsibility, it sounds so obvious now but for many years I was under the impression I had some kind of mysterious 'disease', I saw myself as an Edgar Allen Poe-esque figure troubled and tortured and destined to die by the bottle.

What a load of nonsense, obviously the AV LOVED this image and kept it nice and strong in my mind, in reality, I drank too much all the time. Now I see that really, it was incredibly selfish behaviour and I'm glad that it's over.

And yes, it IS over AV, you're finished.

It was uncomfortable at first giving up the 'disease' concept, the issue with the disease concept is that suddenly you feel like you're not responsible for all the terrible things you've done, and so many people latch onto this concept because it frees them from personal responsibility. So it was uncomfortable having to go through a lot of old memories and realising that really, the bottom line is that I screwed up pretty badly. The plus side to this though, is that by making a choice to abstain forever, it won't happen again.

Human's make mistakes, sometimes those mistakes are huge, but humans also learn, turn things around and never make those mistakes again.

Loving sober life today.

Peace and strength all
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:24 AM
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So many great posts in one thread. Thanks everyone! I loved reading this.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:07 PM
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I'm an AA guy. I do my best to work the steps with my sponsor, but the mental gymnastics required are tiring me out. I wouldn't mind investigating another option, but ten months of AA and my nerves are a bit raw: I think I may explode if I hear just one more trite slogan or bromide. This Beast business has me clawing at the bars of my cage already - any time a group of like-minded individuals start tossing around capital letters willy nilly, my ire rises.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:42 PM
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Heh, Gargery. You have no idea how ironic your post seems. You might give the book a read, it's actually pretty much the exact opposite of *Anonymous.
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Old 11-29-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gargery View Post
I'm an AA guy. I do my best to work the steps with my sponsor, but the mental gymnastics required are tiring me out. I wouldn't mind investigating another option, but ten months of AA and my nerves are a bit raw: I think I may explode if I hear just one more trite slogan or bromide. This Beast business has me clawing at the bars of my cage already - any time a group of like-minded individuals start tossing around capital letters willy nilly, my ire rises.
Hey Gargery

Its a great idea to explore all options, I know when I first broke away from my traditional recovery, I was annoyed and upset and resentful, there was a huge temptation to say "if this part is bad" then it all must be bad. I personally believe that any heightened emotional state whether it be feelings of hopelessness, bliss or anger makes me vulnerable to credulity, when something comes along that feeds my protestations of the group or program I'm questioning, you can kind of feel justified and reinforced in your emotions, but for me there is a great danger that I am not fully experiencing my own recovery and down the track I may feel the same way about the new program/attitude/philosophy.
I suppose its decent skepticism that can help here, Ask questions lots of questions, don't be afraid to challenge the absolute claims made by anyone, ask for evidence.
I personally am no longer part of the 12 step recovery movement but I am still grateful for some aspects of fellowship, and mindful attention to things that can come about through inventory. Like you I was frustrated by people voicing slogans and one liners with no real attention to what they actually mean and in my circles finding very view people who lived by the one liner that so easily tripped of the tongue.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:10 PM
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Thanks. "Rational recovery" is something I've been meaning to investigate for some time. Recently, however, I'm tired of self-help in general. I feel like I need a vacation from recovery, but don't want to return to drink. I'll check it out sooner or later; my exasperation with AA waxes and wanes, so this book will likely be Amazoned soon.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:58 PM
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Gargery, an excellent introduction to Rational Recovery and AVRT is only a click or two away. Check out the RR website if you are curious.
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