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Refuge Recovery

Old 09-15-2014, 05:29 PM
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Refuge Recovery

Anyone heard and/or participated in this?

It's non-profit so I'm going to take a chance and post a link to the site that explains more about it:

Home | A BUDDHIST PATH TO RECOVERING FROM ADDICTION

"Refuge Recovery is a community of people who are using the practices of mindfulness, compassion, forgiveness and generosity to heal the pain and suffering that addiction has caused in our lives and the lives of our loved ones. The path of practice that we follow is called the Four Truths of Refuge Recovery.

The Four Truths of Refuge Recovery are a Buddhist oriented path to recovery from addictions."

I quit drinking for good using RR/AVRT but interested in others thoughts opinions on this.

I'm assuming it would be considered a secular form of recovery for purposes of this message board but ... who knows? If it needs to be moved I apologize.

Hope all are well. I've had a hell of a year!!!!
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Old 09-15-2014, 08:29 PM
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Sounds interesting, Received. I suppose I used those ideas in my recovery too, mindfulness, forgiveness, compassion and generosity. Mindfulness to develop that required awareness of self, forgiveness and compassion while I moved through my transition from drunk to sober, and generosity towards others, all were important and continue to be. I think they are life skills now, not just sober skills.
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Old 09-16-2014, 10:25 AM
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True...true, fresh. I'm afraid my awareness, compassion and all that good stuff has taken a hard hit, of late.
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Old 09-16-2014, 06:40 PM
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I am sorry to hear that, Received, I guess the real test is when things get challenging. In another way, these challenges allow us to make those good stuff skills even sharper. It's also when efforts in these areas get the most results. Sometimes, those results are just stunning. I am fond of saying, believe in yourself and what you can achieve, demand it, and you will succeed. I think it applies to a variety of situations in life, not just addiction. Onward with your bad self, now.
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Old 09-17-2014, 09:14 AM
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Thank you....this is something I could find very useful! Hope things get better for you. xo
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Old 04-12-2015, 07:49 AM
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Bump
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:49 AM
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As I posted in the other thread, I'm beginning to read the book and planning to attend a meeting with a couple of like minded friends. That's all I have at the moment.

-allan
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:01 PM
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Same here. I am hoping to attend the meeting this Wednesday and also get the book.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:43 PM
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I've read alot of the Dharma Punx Nation stuff, and it was the Buddhist path that I began to follow when I quit 8 years ago. Interestingly, When I read about AVRT here (after I had quit), the parallels were HUGE to me between much Buddhist thought and the idea of using the AVR Technique. I found the practice of sitting with discomfort very similar in nature to the seeing the AV and watching it as an observer- not acting on it-not interacting with it. The AVRT is really the same approach to nonattachment in Buddhism. I see addiction/craving/use of substances intertwined in the five hinderances.
"The Buddha says that all the hindrances arise through unwise consideration (ayoniso manasikara) and that they can be eliminated by wise consideration (yoniso manasikara). Each hindrance, however, has its own specific antidote. Thus wise consideration of the repulsive feature of things is the antidote to sensual desire; wise consideration of loving-kindness counteracts ill will; wise consideration of the elements of effort, exertion and striving opposes sloth and torpor; wise consideration of tranquillity of mind removes restlessness and worry; and wise consideration of the real qualities of things eliminates doubt." (S.v,105-106).
I haven't read Refuge Recovery, but I ordered it today so that I can effectively discuss. Looking forward to ya'lls thoughts on it.
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
I've read alot of the Dharma Punx Nation stuff, and it was the Buddhist path that I began to follow when I quit 8 years ago. Interestingly, When I read about AVRT here (after I had quit), the parallels were HUGE to me between much Buddhist thought and the idea of using the AVR Technique. I found the practice of sitting with discomfort very similar in nature to the seeing the AV and watching it as an observer- not acting on it-not interacting with it. The AVRT is really the same approach to nonattachment in Buddhism. I see addiction/craving/use of substances intertwined in the five hinderances. I haven't read Refuge Recovery, but I ordered it today so that I can effectively discuss. Looking forward to ya'lls thoughts on it.

We have discussed these things before and its always strange for me to see AVRT as being compared buddhism. In terms of techniques Yes there are elements of observation and sitting with stuff However the principles underneath each practice are opposite at their core. My understanding of buddhism has a strong platform of equanimity to explore oneself mindfully, Rational Recovery does not have this and sets up a Narrative of Addictive Voices with beastly characteristics, it sets up ideas of addiction being compartmentalized in the brain and some kind of better self override. When I imagine I am watching an addictive voice in mindfulness, there is an automatic hierarchy suggested that it is Me the observer watching It the beast, and such a division is an attachment in itself. The attachment is actually the dogma of dualism, this idea buddhism teaches is delusion. The idea as I understand buddhist mindfulness is to be an "observer" without judgement (or at least be an observer with a non judgmental attitude) when we start of with ideas of segmented parts of our brain and Beast labels and higher selves and Big Plans we are already on the backfoot with a non judgmental approach.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by samseb5351
The idea as I understand buddhist mindfulness is to be an "observer" without judgement (or at least be an observer with a non judgmental attitude) when we start of with ideas of segmented parts of our brain and Beast labels and higher selves and Big Plans we are already on the backfoot with a non judgmental approach.
That is how I quit my addictions, through the Buddhist principles of mindfulness and watching as an observer. The technique as described does parallel that practice to me. I have never held judgement as in "bad beast", I've simply used a similar technique (remember I quit before I learned of AVRT) to watch objectively as feelings (cravings) came and went. That is very similar to me as the practice of sitting with discomfort and allowing thoughts, feelings, emotions, whatever...to pass. The analogy of hindrances "coming to visit" and instead of "fighting" them, the Buddhist practitioner would invite them in. That to me speaks of not fearing the Beast (AVRT analogy).

As far as the "division being an attachment", I don't see it that way. If there is no self to begin with, then division of self is moot anyway. I see the technique of recognizing the AV and then basically doing nothing (meaning not engaging) as very similar to Buddhist ideas. If you don't that's cool too.

To say I draw a parallel does not mean that I think these ideologies are identical,btw. It just means it's an observation I've made that you may or may not agree with or be able to relate to.

samseb, have you read The New Cure in it's entirety?
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
. samseb, have you read The New Cure in it's entirety?
I dont mean for my post to come of as a criticism of your recovery Soberlicious, what you have done is great stuff. I just struggle to see RR at its core is similar to Buddhism. Heres the thing about the book, I haven't read the book, however I have read the entire Website (which in itself is almost as large as a book) I would have to assume that what is written in the book is reflected on website, otherwise its a classic bait and switch. A Bait and Switch is a dishonest form of hucksterism. If the website is not a reflection of the core ideas and principles behind the RR and AVRT method then What is it?. Perhaps I should read the book and you should read the website.

I, like yourself have been around recovery for a while, I have done all sorts of things and I can say the biggest problem in recovery/addiction circles is misinformation, a whole lot of people making all sorts of claims, pseudo science is rampart and political influence is as well. The actual truth about addiction is that Science is really only just scratching the surface in understanding whats going on and working out positive treatments. For me Mindfulness in a very simple and pragmatic way is a great platform fro dealing with my addiction, but also living a rich and robust life. I don't expect anyone to just believe what I say on any of these issues, in fact I would be a bit annoyed if they did, the reason I write the things I do is to encourage people to think, observe and investigate for themselves. This does not mean I have to read every book to get the ideas of what I wish to focus on, I don't have time or motivation, if Core principles are represented in the introduction of a program then that is enough for me to make my decisions.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:09 PM
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I'm not taking it as criticism, sam. I asked because I think if you read the book you would see that it does explain the technique much more in depth. Perhaps then you would draw the same parallels that I have, or perhaps not.

I've read the website...and the book. I can understand what you are saying about the hierarchy, judgement of the Beast, etc, but as I said previously, the recognition technique can work in the same way as mindfulness in that you observe and don't interact with the cravings/emotions/feelings-just see them, that's all. I focused much of my early learning of Buddhism on the concept of "mastering the mind" and not allowing it to run rampant. I see that as very analogous to the way AVRT seeks to extinguish certain patterns of behavior by dismissing the thoughts associated with those behaviors. Of course AVRT is going to have some elements that are contrary to Buddhism...Trimpey is as Western as they come. But looking deeper, I see some interesting commonalities.

This does not mean I have to read every book
Well, no...but it helps to be well versed on a subject. It's tough to have a deep discussion with only a rudimentary understanding. Not only that, but it also helps to reference the text because obviously each person who reads has slightly different interpretations of the text.

but no matter...I have no vested interest in promoting Buddhism or AVRT or anything really. I see the two techniques as quite similar in basic premise, simplicity, and practical application. Again, I'm not saying they are exactly the same, nor do I believe they are completely opposite. I practiced Buddhist mindfulness first, and when I stumbled across AVRT it struck me as similar right off the bat. Both of these techniques can be used to examine any attachment and the resulting suffering. That's been my experience anyway.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:48 PM
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I've gone to a few f2f Refuge Recovery groups and liked them a lot. I plan to keep going.

In each of the meetings that I went to, there was a 20 minute silent meditation, reading from the Refuge Recovery book, and a discussion.

I have only read a small section of the book. Parts of it I liked, and parts of it seemed a bit dogmatic to me. I haven't encountered anything dogmatic about the meetings and the people there. I like the meetings better than the book. Although maybe I'll like the book more as I read more of it.

They have a few phone and online meetings. Their f2f meetings are limited.
MEETING LISTINGS |
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:01 AM
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I went yesterday and I liked it. The format was the same as described by Oak.
They did not have books for sale but someone loaned me his book. I plan to go back next Wednesday and also to read the book over the next couple of days.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:20 PM
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Carlotta, I'm so glad you liked it. I feel so fortunate to live close enough to a meeting that it is an option.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:32 PM
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Hi Oak, we have another thread going on Refuge Recovery right now.
I m glad that I found that group which is not too far away.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ecovery-3.html
It looks like they are going to get an invasion of SR folks LOL
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:50 PM
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It's weird, Carlotta, because I was talking with someone about Refuge Recovery on Sunday. I didn't really know much about it and when I logged in yesterday saw these threads and decided to try a meeting. Funny how life works.
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Old 04-21-2015, 07:24 PM
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Thank you for this info received! There is a meeting in Toronto and I plan to order the book
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:30 PM
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I went to my first meeting last week I liked it I'll be back.
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