CelticZebra

Ok so I'm about half way through and just got to the bit about telling the rest of the world..... Getting a bit stuck at this point especially as the 2 people I would most like to understand the concepts explained are my parents, although dad has mellowed with age, I fear the same rejections, as always, with my attempts to open their minds to different ways of thinking and sadly I believe their minds are not open enough and due to all their brainwashing from various sources i will leave the. Until another time, I have some friends and my hubby who are (not always) willing to listen to me, even taking on board some of my ideas and suggestions. I guess they have seen the changes in my outlook on life since I started taking responsibility for myself, my actions and my addictions....
I will let you know where I'm at when I get to the end of the book.
Thanks to OP for the heads up and to all for being here & sharing your stuff 👍

Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself

itstheone

He totally ripped off Alan Carr Easy Way to quit drinking....The greatest book next to the bible and my quit tool

jazzfish

They actually used to work together before having a falling out. I actually found Vale's book to be the better written of the two.

Riel

Carr's and Vale's book are essentially the same. Carr uses a cool metaphor of the Pitcher Plant to describe the trap of alcohol; Vale's book may be a slightly smoother read.

In a nutshell: alcohol is a poison with no benefits of any kind. The benefits ascribed to it are illusory (remember, an illusion isn't something that doesn't exist, but rather is something that isn't what it appears to be). You have illusions about alcohol due to brainwashing (a result of our culture, including upbringing, social influences, media, and advertising). Once you see through the illusion you will have no desire to drink, so will have no need to use willpower to stop drinking (hence the claim that it's "easy" to stop).

This approach works for me because I was a medicinal drinker: vodka and water, to cope with anxiety and stress. The illusion was that alcohol helped, when it actually increased both. Alcohol produced massive chemical changes in my brain which made me feel different, and which I mistakenly saw as evidence that it was helping me.

I believe that social drinkers would also have their illusions dispelled by reading either book.

As Carr says, keep reading or re-reading until the penny drops. When it does, the temptation to drink disappears.

Jake1961

Vale's book changed my life for the better. It was like the curtain being pulled back on Oz and revealing the big lie of alcohol. Nearly 9 months sober and I could not have done it without that book and SR.

Dharma33

So glad I read through this thread. I just downloaded Jason Vale's book, read the first 50 pages and feel like a lightbulb has just turned on. Thank you SoberHoopsFan for posting!!!

trez

I had some problems with the book. His central premise is that alcohol is completely worthless: it tastes bad and has no value. But clearly alcohol does provide some value, otherwise THE ENTIRE WORLD wouldn't drink the stuff. I've definitely felt like I was missing out on a lot of fun when I've been sober at a party or the like.

Also, he frequently compares booze with heroin or crack, but those drugs have a different effect on the brain and the body so I'm not sure it's an apt comparison. Plus his solution is to simply quit drinking, which is fine but easier said than done. In any event, it's worth reading but for in my opinion the book is overly simplistic.

samseb5351

One of the issues I have with these ideas are exactly what you have touched on. What seems to happen as alcoholics choose sobriety sometimes a demonizing narrative can arise. The issue can be polarized in the conspiratorial direction that alcohol is "evil". Like most things that we wish to target as enemies, to loathe and hate, there can be cartoonish ideas presented, just like in war time when the enemy is demonized beyond being like us, perhaps we do it because of fear But I suspect its done to kind of keeping Angry and On alert. Calling alcohol a drug like crack, saying it tastes bad with no value, and I must say also Vales suggestion that all drinkers are Alcoholics are all versions of cartoonish demonizing. I understand that when the Alcohol industry is looked at under the microscope we can find deceptions in marketing that can glamorize drinking, this glamorizing can make it seem even harmless or a social lubricant and to alcoholics that seems almost insulting, but the majority of drinkers do not have issues and drinking is a cultural tradition for many, employment for millions and important with ceremonial value.
I think its important to remember that most capitalist markets and marketing from junk food to housing, electronics to most consumer goods have elements of deception, at any given time I could make cartoonish arguments to attack anything, But personally I prefer being skeptical and think before I buy.
The other point about Mr Vale that I don't like is the re-direction of responsibility away from the drinker to the conspiracies outside of the individual. It can tend to be a Oh I see thats why I am an alcoholic, I was sucked in by that evil product and those who produce it.

jazzfish

Jason Vale states early in the book that he doesn't think alcoholism even exist, so therefore alcoholics don't exist only addiction along a spectrum. If you take pure alcohol, it does taste awful. Drinks can be made that taste good that contain alcohol, but people aren't drinking them because of the taste of alcohol, but rather the effect of alcohol. Finally, advertising does work and the liquor industry spends dearly to keep us convinced that drinking is fun, part of a good life, sophisticated, etc. Jason Vale's book aims to take on each issue (excuse) and show that drinking is never necessary and generally adds nothing.

I also like to remember that Vale's book is a technique to quit, not a scientific journal article. It only needs to be effective, not accurate. There's no reason to try and tear it apart.

anattaboy

I like your head Sam. I too did NOT consider looking at either of these books as I have lived with alcoholism for 40 yrs. and doubt anyone can shed much light on the "why". It all still boils down to personal choice and giving outside influences credibility is against my religion (common sense). I will say this: If it helps someone stay sober for even 6 months, then it's good. No "beliefs" will conquer the whim but some can help.

samseb5351

At the end of the day my motive is not to tear things apart but to introduce positive skepticism to the recovery discussion. I understand how difficult it is to introduce critical thinking to recovery discussions. Most of us including me get sucked into particular "recovery views" and when we venture outside of these views or challenge them there is always some push back, but I am OK with that, if people get to think for themselves or tell me "Sam you have got me thinking there" then I am happy. Perhaps what may need challenging is ideas that recovery and addiction occupy sacred ground outside of rational thinking, that we are more successful walking on eggshells with each other then asking hard questions and offering critiques of techniques that make unfounded claims. I would argue that accurate provides us with the approach we can stick to with the least cognitive dissonance, and long term effectiveness stems from that space.

tahrga

I love bananas addiction from the Jason Vale .

jazzfish

If it were a scientific understanding of alcohol addiction, then I would agree about the necessity of precision. However, we are talking about human behavior, and humans make irrational decisions each and every day. In my opinion, an effective approach needs to appeal to the wide variety of factors that make up and motivate each person. The most important thing about any individual approach is that a person believes it will work. Ulitmately, the fundamental element of any approach is to simply never drink, anything extra is simply padding to make it more palatable.

bookmaven

Recommended for You:

"Alcohol Lied To Me" by Craig Beck

Not sure which book came first but it's almost exactly the same rhetoric based on what I've read on this thread.

My favorite cherry from the book is something about alcohol being attractively packaged poison in pretty bottles.

And I have to say that I listened to it in early sobriety and it worked. For about 3 months. And then it didn't. I had 2 more goes at being sober before the last one and that finally stuck with me.

It might be what helped get me dried out, but did absolutely nothing to help keep me sober.

It's only ONE of MANY tools in my sobriety toolkit.

FeenixxRising

A serious question, does Beck's method involve invisible energy fields and finger tapping?

samseb5351

I may be misunderstanding here, are you saying the most important thing about recovery is belief?

jazzfish

No, I didn't say that at all. I am saying that if in order to quit drinking one feels they need an approach, then the approach that will "work" will be the one that they believe will work. If one doesn't believe an approach will work then it most likely will not "work". Similar to a placebo, it works because you believe it will, not because it actually does.

samseb5351

Oh sorry maybe I wasn't clear, when I asked if you put importance on "belief" I didn't mean a belief in God or faith. Just a belief in believing. And you have answered my question on that. Thanks. I will have some follow up questions later.

LemonGirl

I can totally see how viewing alcohol as nothing more than a poison and that it adds virtuallly nothing to our lives, and in fact adds negative experiences can enhance abstinence.

But what I worry about is... so what. So what if it's a poison and it does nothing but crap on our lives. I'm pretty sure there are tons of alcoholics that know full well how awful it us and continue drinking anyway.
I guess in my view it is still more important to figure out underlying causes and get to the business of learning better tools to cope with those causes. Otherwise, alcohol can just be replaced with something more "positive"... exercise, gaming, caffeine, sex, god.....
Just my two cents. But I'm pretty sure I'll be ordering this book soon to support my ideas of alcohol nonsense anyway.

Esubvaria

I have finished Vale's book and Carr's also. I cannot get past his chapter Taste. I loved wine, and tried to see it his way, but cannot. He bases his premise on the fact that good wine actually tastes bad. I can't accept that, very good wine tastes very good. So, that attitude has me feeling somewhat deprived, which is the whole point of his approach. Not feeling deprived, you are giving up nothing. Thus, I find myself using willpower at times, which he states will result in failure.