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Moderation Management

Old 07-15-2014, 09:14 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by fini View Post
but cabo, as Carl said...why would someone who moderates contentedly be on a "recovery" site to discuss it?
why is someone who is sober want to discuss it...I miss your point? you are sober..mission accomplished right?
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:16 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Well, I have to make the observation the "Moderation Management" is somewhat of an oxymoron.

If I could moderate, it would not need any managing.

In my opinion, anyone who feels compelled to examine their drinking behavior must have invented some kind of "drinking yardstick" for themselves, by which they have the ability to measure or compare their alcohol consumption to what others are doing. How much is too much? Where is the line drawn whereby the person steps over into "real" alcoholism?

For me, being a non-drinker requires zero effort. There are no decisions to be made, no rules, no measurements, no nothing.

If my AV decides to engage me in discussions about drinking again, I do not find it particularly threatening to my sobriety because I can't believe my AV could seriously think I would actually consider it.

I.e, "Moderation Management" sounds like just too much work.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:16 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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I felt like I was getting emotionally charged, which is why I edited my last post - not sure why either.

However, what I would like to say is I think most of this is about persepctive. Program agnostic, perspective and attitude make all the difference.

Cabo I think we see what we want to see. Some see the negative in there not being celebration for moderation in a recovery forum. I see people trying to share their experience, their solution no matter what program or lack of a program. I think its about the glasses one looks through.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:17 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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look I'm not considering moderating....don't worry..you can turn off the police sirens..it is a fact that we have a close minded and paranoid recovery culture...I don't think it's a stretch to say that
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:27 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
We have had quite a few pleasant academic discussions lately and I was hoping to start another.
Well, there goes that hope...dashed.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:31 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by doggonecarl View Post
Well, there goes that hope...dashed.
Well...this IS a recovery site. Perhaps we can recover.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:34 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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i don't see why someone who is moderating wouldn't still need support. If you get sober you still need support.. In reality the only difference is one guys has a few drinks here and there...I don't know how that equals he is free from all problems
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:01 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by silentrun View Post
The day I quit was the day I realized all I wanted to do was drink. There actually was a time when I had an off switch. The dangerous drinking habits lead to loss of control. I knew at age 35 something had drastically changed but I kept going another 10 years. Moderation management should have begun before the first blackout. Once I realized I had a problem it was probably already to late. That's OK. I feel like the decision to quit was mine alone. Nobody pressured me into it. I saw the situation and I saw the way out. Owning the right to quit instead of feeling forced into it made this possible.




Same for me. Unfortunately that ship sailed long ago. Moderation is not an option for me.

I remember reading a post on another thread where the poster described "ruining his relationship with alcohol." I believe the same happened with me. I didn't start off with an abnormal relationship with alcohol. It wasn't that I took my first drink and was off to the races. It was insidious; a maladaptive coping mechanism that I used to self-medicate my mental illness and anesthetize myself against LIFE. It took years of inappropriate drinking to get to the dark place; but I got there eventually.

Eventually I had to recognize that there was the relationship I WANTED to have with alcohol and the relationship I ACTUALLY have with alcohol. Two very different realities. As much as I would like to moderate; in a "perfect world" I live in the real world and know that it is an exercise in futility.

That is why I will never go back. The road washed out behind me long ago and I can only move forward. I learned about AVRT and it helped me stop drinking. I am now recovered; but a non-drinker.

Total abstinence is the only answer for me.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:04 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
i don't see why someone who is moderating wouldn't still need support. If you get sober you still need support.. In reality the only difference is one guys has a few drinks here and there...I don't know how that equals he is free from all problems
Support is nice along with the feelings associated with fellowship , but 'need' support to remain sober? The needing of support is perhaps the kernel from which the recovery culture(which I take it , you are not quite aligned with) grows, no?

Oh yeah the irony of asking that question on a recovery forum I frequent is not lost on me, guess I go in for the fellowship thingy, not much of a facebooker
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:21 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
i don't see why someone who is moderating wouldn't still need support. If you get sober you still need support.. In reality the only difference is one guys has a few drinks here and there...I don't know how that equals he is free from all problems
I agree. I'm just not sure SR is the right place to get that support need met. Empathy is a big part of support. People flock here to communicate with other people who understand their issue. There are very few (if any) here that can empathize with a moderate drinker.

I am a lifelong Cleveland Browns fan. I am entitled to my opinion, fandom, and support. I am not, however, going to log into the forums at PittsburghSteelersKickAss.com and plead my case.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:32 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
Support is nice along with the feelings associated with fellowship , but 'need' support to remain sober? The needing of support is perhaps the kernel from which the recovery culture(which I take it , you are not quite aligned with) grows, no?

Oh yeah the irony of asking that question on a recovery forum I frequent is not lost on me, guess I go in for the fellowship thingy, not much of a facebooker
the fellowship? will you join me on a noble quest mr baggins?

the fellowship..is AA? I often wondered why people use that term
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:46 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
the fellowship? will you join me on a noble quest mr baggins?

the fellowship..is AA? I often wondered why people use that term
More like conversation with like minded folk. Empathy from understanding kind of thing. My sobriety is not dependent on receiving it , but sometimes I just like it.
As to questing , sounds cool, but my wife says I can't, bummer.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:53 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
 
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Cabo, I hear what you are saying and I agree, but like Non, I think this forum is about completely quitting.

I think that for many people, there is a great deal of fear. I understand that and I respect that. Just because I am not afraid of topics like moderation doesn't mean that others aren't.

My grandmother was the epitome of Deep South Christianity. If I spoke of my non belief, it visibly upset her. Her fear for my soul was very real. I respected that. Obviously being atheist, I am not worried about my fate after I die. Just me knowing that is enough, I don't have to get her blood pressure up about it, there's no point.

As far as changing the face of recovery I do think that respectful conversations are necessary, but toward that end it's important to invoke as little fear as possible so that the words can be heard.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:23 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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I so liked this thread I read it twice. Thanks Nonsensical, what a fantastic example of mindfulness and integrity. I really like your point that giving "moderation" a fair hearing has in some respects strengthened your sobriety.
Its got me thinking about my prejudice towards RR. It wouldn't be hard to see that I am not a Fan of RR however some of the most engaging and thoughtful conversations I read come on this Secular Connections, I am always catching myself reading some peoples posts and going "you make a really good point" . I usually come away from reading on here with new ideas and challenges even when I am angry. I come from a background of recovery forums that were so protective of peoples feelings, that were so politically correct that hardly any honest discussion could get through the barrier of platitudes. I saw more suffering and relapse in that kind of environment that I just had to let it go.
I think what has happened is I assume because a small minority of RR followers are Dogmatic, I assume all of you are, This is clearly Wrong and I have been very pleasantly surprised just how open some of you are to ideas, contemplation and mindfulness.

Thanks
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:02 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
It got me wondering if I had tried MM years ago if I would have concluded sooner that I needed abstinence. I kept trying my own moderation programs, thinking I would come up with some set of restrictions that worked. Perhaps if I had tried a more regimented approach like MM when it failed I would have moved toward abstinence sooner than I did. Can't turn back the hands of time, of course, but I can't rule out that it might have helped convince me earlier there was only one drinking program I can control - the zero consumption method.

I had previously discounted MM based on my assumption that it did nothing but convince people who can't control their drinking that they can - putting them in potentially dangerous situations. It very likely has that effect on at least some of the members, but now I can conceive of situations where it might also be helpful.

Thoughts?
Over a year ago, I looked into MM, and I did review their material in depth. I researched MM, hoping I could find a way to moderate. While I didn't exactly implement their techniques for moderation, it didn't take long to conclude that 1) I would never be able to moderate for very long using their techniques, and 2) abstinence was the way I needed to go.

In that sense MM helped me to finally move in the right direction.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:22 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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I've been thinking about what caused me to start a similar thread a couple of days ago, after it was pointed out to me that my addictive voice was hanging out with me again.

At this point in my life, I really do think I could drink moderately, if it weren't for my husband. Yes, he already said it would not bother him if I had a glass of wine here and there, but it just would not feel right to ME. I don't feel the need to "prove" a negative -- i.e., why NOT drink -- even if I think I could.

For me a better question is why should I? If I don't miss it, and I don't, I see no reason to. An example was the rum punch I accidentally took a sip of at my son's wedding. I would still have accepted the glass for the toast, I just would not have drunk it. I see no reason to draw attention to myself, ever, by announcing that I do not drink.

I have been a non-drinker for so long, I really don't think about it except when I come here on SR. Hmmm what the hell am I doing on SR anyway?

I have never checked out MM, nor would I ever go on a site like that. If I did, that would be a pretty sure sign I had no business being there.

I suppose some would even say I "slipped" when I had a sip of rum punch at my son's wedding. I could give a rat's behind if someone thought that anyway, because my sobriety is mine and nobody else's business.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:37 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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" 30% of the people that try MM eventually move to an abstinence-based program."
didn't look into it, but what happened to the other 70%?
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:11 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Moderation Management is a wonderful harm reduction program. I'd rather people drink at levels that don't cause problems for them or others. The choice isn't always abstinent or legless drunk. Frankly if someone is happy drinking at those limits and stay within them, my hat is off to them. It isn't for me though.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:31 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
if you want to see something funny..try to get into the MM forum
not interested. for good reason

i did go to the MM site years ago, in one of my control-attempts. thought that "moderating" would be just the ticket. it meant i didn't need to quit.
when i got to checking out their actual program, i immediately burst out laughing: the prerequisite to starting the actual moderating was a three-month abstinent stint! hahaha!

if i could do that, i knew, i wouldn't be looking at websites such as MM.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:35 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
why is someone who is sober want to discuss it...I miss your point? you are sober..mission accomplished right?
uh...i don't understand...people who moderate their drinking aren't sober; they're drinking. if they're moderating happily and problem-free, they would be highly unlikely to be on a sobriety website.
me? yeah i'm sober......so? i'm missing your point, too, i think.
oh! are you saying only people who are drinking, in your opinion, would be interested in discussing it?
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