Done with AA
I apologize to everyone for contradicting myself. I don't really know at this point and I'm really questioning what I can do to make this work. I appear to be irritating some people here. I've been sober for only several weeks and feel kinda lost. Again I'm sorry I wasted everyone's time.
First of all, you are not wasting anyone's time here. Obviously people care enough to respond. A lot of people.
Recovery is a broad term. Some use it as a 'method' to go from drinking to not drinking - a process to get you off alcohol and keep you off.
For me, recovery starts after the alcohol is already gone. AVRT I believe is what to do to get you "off" alcohol and keep you off. But that's it. It removes alcohol from your life - I may be corrected. But is that recovery?
Recovery for me is adjusting myself to learn to live life without the aid of alcohol. It is a learning and growing process. How to cope with stress or to be able to face the daily challenges of life without having to retreat into a bottle. To let go of the past and my perceived excuses for drinking. To be a better person and to be able to be truthful to people without worrying about the consequences of being honest. Being able to face the truth about myself - flush my ego down the toilet. These things are what 'recovery' means to me.
Every day people quit drinking without any type of program or aid. They just had enough and stop. Good for them. I stopped too. But I also knew I had to revamp my thinking and adjust my responses to stimuli from the outside world.
And to learn how to not let people "hurt" my feelings.
ElleDee, I honestly believe that the steps might be a good fit for you. You are seeking answers and guidance on this new way of life. Just quitting drinking is not enough. Some have the ability to change within themselves. Some of us need guidance to carry on. Whether it be in the form of group therapy or a structured program of self improvement. Or just seeing a counselor or cognitive therapy. There really is no one size fits all answer to your dilemma. I suggest you explore all of these to find something that fits your mind set.
I suggest looking at the secular 12 steps. There are many variations of it. And you don't have to attend meetings and group hug and all that. Look at it as an opportunity to learn more about yourself. You have two weeks sober - great! You indicate you don't want group help (I think), but isn't spending time here a form of group help? It is impersonal in that we all aren't sitting in a room together. But in the end, it's the same thing.
The internet is a gateway to loads of information related to these concepts. The 12 steps Du jour - I made that up thank you. I spent weeks looking at the 12 steps Du jour after my first few AA meetings. I myself understood the concepts of it but no way was I going to crush my soul for it - traditional AA.
Give it a shot. Best wishes to you. LB
We're Here To Help
RIGHT from your first Post, the Will and need to craft your own best Approach was evident. I'm not one to cut & paste Quotes much, and I'm referring to your overall Post tone anyway.
Your Post today at 07:14 nicely declares your POV. I don't question such Personal Mission Statements. It's not that a Meeting Eye Roll necessarily would put me off. Empathetic People don't do that Guano. This Person tipped their Hand. The Lyric from an 'Eagles' Song, sung by Recovered Alcoholic Joe Walsh, comes to mind: 'I know there must be somethin' better... I can't stay another night'. I'm just not the type to listen to [or read] umpteen Accounts at a Meeting just to find a proverbial Gem. I'm wired to sort through Approaches, and move some mix of Recovery Tools on down the Road. Time's a wastin'. Typical Male. Typical Retired Engineer. We're packing to move to the Solar-run Retirement House I designed and built on 80 Acres of Mesa-top [see my Avatar], and we bounce between different Houses. So, trying to make Meetings is near-impossible anyway. This Reality means I move to a 'transportable', 'Net-based System of Recovery Tools: SR and RR/AVRT.
Cascable nails it in the 09:25 Post today re: what very possibly could work for Personalities like ours. I say 'very possibly' because I mean only that you consider that -/+ points in that Post, and first give that approach a try, based on your Personal Mission Statement.
I don't advise that Folks just 'up and quit', as I did, after 48 years. That's the right approach for some percentage of us. There's enough proselytizing here in other Forums to make a Doorstep Jehovah's Witness look like an Amateur. I try to steer of all that 'Sledge Hammer' recommendation stuff; regardless of the Recovery du Jour. BTW, I just saw the term 'du Jour' used by LBrain. Coincidence. No 'dig' intended.
You are absolutely not dithering, or wasting the time of anyone here. I remember well being at the point you're at, and it's very understandable. For me, just making the 3 month mark represented a big difference in POV.
Seek and ye shall find.
Your Post today at 07:14 nicely declares your POV. I don't question such Personal Mission Statements. It's not that a Meeting Eye Roll necessarily would put me off. Empathetic People don't do that Guano. This Person tipped their Hand. The Lyric from an 'Eagles' Song, sung by Recovered Alcoholic Joe Walsh, comes to mind: 'I know there must be somethin' better... I can't stay another night'. I'm just not the type to listen to [or read] umpteen Accounts at a Meeting just to find a proverbial Gem. I'm wired to sort through Approaches, and move some mix of Recovery Tools on down the Road. Time's a wastin'. Typical Male. Typical Retired Engineer. We're packing to move to the Solar-run Retirement House I designed and built on 80 Acres of Mesa-top [see my Avatar], and we bounce between different Houses. So, trying to make Meetings is near-impossible anyway. This Reality means I move to a 'transportable', 'Net-based System of Recovery Tools: SR and RR/AVRT.
Cascable nails it in the 09:25 Post today re: what very possibly could work for Personalities like ours. I say 'very possibly' because I mean only that you consider that -/+ points in that Post, and first give that approach a try, based on your Personal Mission Statement.
I don't advise that Folks just 'up and quit', as I did, after 48 years. That's the right approach for some percentage of us. There's enough proselytizing here in other Forums to make a Doorstep Jehovah's Witness look like an Amateur. I try to steer of all that 'Sledge Hammer' recommendation stuff; regardless of the Recovery du Jour. BTW, I just saw the term 'du Jour' used by LBrain. Coincidence. No 'dig' intended.
You are absolutely not dithering, or wasting the time of anyone here. I remember well being at the point you're at, and it's very understandable. For me, just making the 3 month mark represented a big difference in POV.
Seek and ye shall find.
Thanks MM, I enjoyed your post. We just vacationed in Colorado several weeks ago and loved it there. Anyway, yeah... I've been floundering. I need to figure out how I want to do. I will keep seeking the way through this.
You are definitely not wasting anyone's time. Everyone takes their own journey and we all have to find a way that works for us. Take what you need from the advice here and leave the rest. They are just others opinions that is all.
There is no one solution that fits everyone. You will find your way, the important thing is to have an open mind and to never stop trying .
There is no one solution that fits everyone. You will find your way, the important thing is to have an open mind and to never stop trying .
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
First off, I didn't mean to offend you with my feelings about AA. You seem to have taken it personal. The thing is that I've had what I would call numerous unpleasant experiences at meetings. People's reactions, comments, I've had people pounce on me after meetings telling me what to do. I know some of it is that they're trying to be helpful. But I never did well in group therapy either. It's part of who I am I guess. Since AA is one type of program to stay sober, and there are many others (as I am learning) I will avoid meetings or go to the ones I feel comfortable at. That's why I came to this board... to look for alternative ways and I had heard about AVRT and want to learn more.
It sounds as if you might want to try individual therapy, since you have trouble with groups. I would recommend a clinical psychologist specializing in addiction. There are many addiction counselors out there, but they do not have the same level of training, so I think a clinical psychologist would be better.
Is is a common idea in many approaches to recovery that inability to deal with groups is part of the addictive pathology. I do not know if that is true or not, but given that it is possible to begin recovery as an individual, why not do that?
I myself found AA to be very problematic. It provided me with a vision of recovery, but I continually relapsed while attending meetings and working the steps. I eventually left 12-step recovery and found a new therapist who himself is a recovering heroin addict. I really needed individual work one-on-one. I suspect you may have a similar need.
I use a few programs together. I go to AA for the fellowship and the fun events. (I also get a lot of good insight when I listen to other people share) and I go to Women for Sobriety for the support. And then there is a faith based program that I go to just for my own spiritual gain.
You don't have to pick just one. Nor are any of them the right or wrong choices. Just try a bunch of things out and see what you find that works best for your life.
You don't have to pick just one. Nor are any of them the right or wrong choices. Just try a bunch of things out and see what you find that works best for your life.
Good for you, as many have said there are many things you can do that, taken together, will build a strong recovery program. I too stopped going to AA, and as you can see, the hard-core AA folks are very sensitive about criticism. I am staying out of the AA fight, but had to respond to you since I think you're doing the right thing.
I was willing to do anything and everything
no one is really forced into AA
even when judges tell ones to go and get court papers signed there
they do not have to do it
the judge gives them a choice
such as -- go to AA for a while or
go to jail, back to prison or surrender driving privileges etc
AA may not and is not for all sobering up and wishing to stay the same
men and women have been getting sober since the beginning of time
although my religious beliefs are not in alignment with AA
AA has been of great help in my continued sobriety
I have many good sober friends there in those rooms
sure sometimes we are a little forceful
probably the main reason for this would be
we wish to help ones escape from the pits of drinking hell
which we remember all so well
for myself
I have known a few that died with the bottle in their hand
many of my other AA friends who also knew these ones
also wonder today if we should have even been more stern
in our advice given to them ??
still the AA Program is a take it or leave it Program
for myself I was willing to do anything and everything so as to stay sober
AA
church
helping others
etc
etc
Mountainman
even when judges tell ones to go and get court papers signed there
they do not have to do it
the judge gives them a choice
such as -- go to AA for a while or
go to jail, back to prison or surrender driving privileges etc
AA may not and is not for all sobering up and wishing to stay the same
men and women have been getting sober since the beginning of time
although my religious beliefs are not in alignment with AA
AA has been of great help in my continued sobriety
I have many good sober friends there in those rooms
sure sometimes we are a little forceful
probably the main reason for this would be
we wish to help ones escape from the pits of drinking hell
which we remember all so well
for myself
I have known a few that died with the bottle in their hand
many of my other AA friends who also knew these ones
also wonder today if we should have even been more stern
in our advice given to them ??
still the AA Program is a take it or leave it Program
for myself I was willing to do anything and everything so as to stay sober
AA
church
helping others
etc
etc
Mountainman
Of course, we need to find a way forward for ourselves that makes sense, and which will make sobriety as easy and simple as possible to give us the best chance of success. What sort of person climbs a barbed wire fence instead of opening the gate?
See below, from the OP's Post #31 yesterday...
I support her POV and - further - the right to have unquestioned her Self Knowledge re: effective 'Program' style. I think it most effective to first read the Thread and work with any Noobie to gently steer them toward an Approach that has a higher probability of being adopted.
Long ago, I coined my own term for this POV. I call it 'Personal Sovereignty'.
Otherwise, we might as well be advising a Vegan about the best Pork Ribs to BBQ.
As with any Exercise Program, it's best to take up something that suits you. You are more likely to stick with it.
Post #31 - 07:14 Wednesday
'I didn't go to one AA meeting and decide it wasn't for me. Because of how I am hard wired, I am not comfortable in groups. I have some social anxiety. So maybe AA wasn't the best choice from the beginning. I've started learning about AVRT because that is a method that I think will help me stay sober (along with a number of other things I doing outside of AA). So with AA, yes it's ME, I don't like groups. I don't go to parties and I don't go out with more than one friend at a time because I DON'T LIKE GROUPS.'
I support her POV and - further - the right to have unquestioned her Self Knowledge re: effective 'Program' style. I think it most effective to first read the Thread and work with any Noobie to gently steer them toward an Approach that has a higher probability of being adopted.
Long ago, I coined my own term for this POV. I call it 'Personal Sovereignty'.
Otherwise, we might as well be advising a Vegan about the best Pork Ribs to BBQ.
As with any Exercise Program, it's best to take up something that suits you. You are more likely to stick with it.
Post #31 - 07:14 Wednesday
'I didn't go to one AA meeting and decide it wasn't for me. Because of how I am hard wired, I am not comfortable in groups. I have some social anxiety. So maybe AA wasn't the best choice from the beginning. I've started learning about AVRT because that is a method that I think will help me stay sober (along with a number of other things I doing outside of AA). So with AA, yes it's ME, I don't like groups. I don't go to parties and I don't go out with more than one friend at a time because I DON'T LIKE GROUPS.'
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
MMBob,
Some of us ARE forced to go to AA! Few are willing to risk the "or else..."
I did not "need" AA, although by being forced to be there, I simply found a "room" full of the wildest and craziest street people I could find.
While I did that for my "entertainment" (some of the other rooms bored me to near insanity), some of the sagest words of wisdom came from the most unlikely people, most of whom I would be scared to share a bus ride with.
I still often quote some of the things I heard there, things I think might help others here on SR.
Some of us ARE forced to go to AA! Few are willing to risk the "or else..."
I did not "need" AA, although by being forced to be there, I simply found a "room" full of the wildest and craziest street people I could find.
While I did that for my "entertainment" (some of the other rooms bored me to near insanity), some of the sagest words of wisdom came from the most unlikely people, most of whom I would be scared to share a bus ride with.
I still often quote some of the things I heard there, things I think might help others here on SR.
All I had to do was surrender. There was no pain involved.
Oh for crying out loud. I am simply not reading this thread any longer nor commenting. I don't like group therapy. Shoot me. Accuse me of being a weiner who is seeking an easier, softer way. Whatever.
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