trachemys

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, or methods. I just found this article interesting. My only problem with meditation is having spent too much time meditating under the influence of serious drugs. Now, I quit drugs other than alcohol 20 years ago. Still, I can't get in the state anymore.

The Dark Knight of the Soul - Tomas Rocha - The Atlantic

silentrun

How goes it trachemys? How are the choppers holding up? I finally got all my dental work done. YEAH!!!
That was a good link. AO mentioned I should read the book Dark Night of the Soul. Haven't gotten to it yet.
Every time I try to meditate I end of falling asleep. I work with a young guy who was into that yogi meditation. He said he experienced complete ego loss and won't tell what he saw. We have been friends for awhile so I keep trying but he said he won't even tell his wife. Ever since then he won't go near it. I think it was aided by weed. He quit that too.
Did something bad happen when you were doing it?

trachemys

hi silent. I"m doin good. Mouth's all healed up, dentures comfy.

Now, I fall asleep, too. Back in the day, I never had anything bad happen. I do have trouble remembering what I saw with my eyes open and what I saw with my eyes closed. And that time I turned into a sentient stone in a meadow is still clear in my mind.

silentrun

I would think that if you are going for a mystical experience you should probably be in a good headspace to begin with. Most people probably don't get that far on meditation unless they are devoted to it. Someone on here mentioned brainwave entertainment. I have tried that and really liked it. Brainwave Entrainment - POWERFUL Serotonin And Endorphin Release Deep Sedative Effect - YouTube
Mostly I just like to fall asleep to a good Moody Blues album.
Glad you are back and your teeth are not hurting you. That really sucks doesn't it. It is so nice to have it all fixed.

trachemys

I get my mystical experiences in nature now. Just an hour by a river and I feel so good. A three day solo backpacking trip in wilderness will have me walking about 6 inches above the ground.

Glad to be back.

BobArctor

So, essentially it is saying that psychoanalysis can dig up things that you aren't ready for with potentially serious results.

Or, warning, thinking can be harmful to your sense of self.

"Self-help" and discount varieties of "spiritual" (for lack of a better word) practice are no substitute for the real thing and potentially dangerous.

I don't see it as arguing against meditation itself.

trachemys

Bob, I think all the article is saying is that there's a possibility, and documentation, of bad results from meditation.

What's "the real thing" and what isn't?

jdooner

I believe my acid trips were spiritual. But i was unable to interpret them after i came down bc i was closed and active at the time. Now i am abke to achieve the same journey sober and interpret the messages.

anattaboy

The "results" or benefits of meditation are exactly what they are. For most of us this is just noticing many times in a sit that the mind will go to many places other than the breath itself for extended periods. One can only smile, return to the breath and realize how unruly and childlike the mind is. This noting and returning is progress (and frustrating sometimes as I feel I should be "better" at this by now). This is a practice, not an injection. Others tell me I've changed but after 3 yrs. of sitting I notice only that I can sit for 1/2 hr now instead of 10 min. Mystical "trips" appeal to the AV but not so much my spirituality.

BobArctor

When the article talks about dangers of the "mindfulness" movement, I think it is getting at how there is risk in treating contemplation with inappropriate expectations. If "mindfulness" is treated as a routine you go through to achieve such and such result, like making you feel calm, then the awesomeness of your mind is not being respected and you are at risk of having things revealed to you that you are not ready for.

Meditation is a mental process. There are not hard divisions between "thinking" and "feeling" and "day dreaming". By thinking, you can delve into things that disturb you and invoke lasting negative thought patterns.

That doesn't mean, you should stop thinking. It doesn't mean you should avoid thinking about things other than what is a common topic of conversation in polite society.. It means that you are at risk of confusing yourself if you think that the part of your brain that uses words is in control of your entire mentality.

And, the part about people being at risk of falling into the pit of the void implies that some issues are risky to deal with without help from a therapist.

I was noticing the title of the article says "Dark Knight", but it is referring to the "dark night". It maybe adds an inappropriate fear to the topic by saying "knight".