Saying hi

Old 06-07-2014, 10:02 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Hello notdrunk! I don't ascribe to AA theology (I'm a devout Atheist) but I do go to AA meetings to connect on the very human level of "our" struggle. It took awhile but I can pretty much hear the truth of what is really working for folks. Usually it is as simple as "don't drink even if your ass falls off and if it does, put it in a bag and call somebody and get to a meeting"--Hokey saying? yes! but better than taking a drink! We are probably 50 years from seeing some solid secular groups in every city but it is definitely the trend--you and I don't have 50 yrs. I guess what I'm saying is whatever people say they believe or how they wish to define themselves, if I listen closely and watch, I will see they struggle, want, win,sometimes lose and feel just like myself..
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:47 PM
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Went to a relatives grad party today (which was dry, even if it wasn't, I don't think it would have been too challenging, mostly distant family so barely know anyone) but my brother in law was there and one of the few things we have in common is beeeeer. In fact I believe it is the only thing we have in common.

With zero effort the beer popped into my head and I had moments of weakness where I slipped into a "I can't drink" mentality, which makes a whiny little turd (internally, none of this is external).

I've found replacing "can't" in my mind's voice with "don't" helps immensely. I don't know why this has never dawned on me before, but obviously that change in language changes the power balance.

So, ordinarily we would have left the grad party and went across town to my brother in laws where we would have swilled beer all night while our wives talked up inane things. Didn't do that (not to avoid the situation, but because of kid related obligations) so now we're on our way home (130 miles).

And lo, here's another spot where beer pops into my head: we need to stop and eat and normally we'd hit something brewpub-ish. Damn it. But again, saying "I don't drink" just changes the game for me. So here I go (after the wife comes out of H and M - I'm not typing this much while my family waits) - I'm going to a brewpub and gonna have some food and water, and let's see if I'm a salty little turdburglar or if I'm come out of it feeling stronger.

I don't know if this psychological game I'm playing makes up any of AVRT (haven't had the time to dig in yet) but I hope it does.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:25 PM
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Yes, I think it does. What begins as a "psychological game" is the first step towards a mental adjustment to a new self-identity as a nondrinker. "Can't" implies an unwillingness or inability -- whereas "don't" implies volition and determination. Big difference.

Others here are better versed on AVRT than I am, but once you recognize that ANY thinking that leads to taking a drink IS the addictive voice, you are on your way to learning to identify it. The addictive voice will tell you that you "can't" drink, for example, implying it is against your will, and you really do want to drink.

Self-identifying yourself as a nondrinker makes all other decisions very simple. You simply do not drink. Period. End of story. No explanations or reasons required.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by notdrunkrg View Post
I've found replacing "can't" in my mind's voice with "don't" helps immensely. I don't know why this has never dawned on me before, but obviously that change in language changes the power balance.

I don't know if this psychological game I'm playing makes up any of AVRT (haven't had the time to dig in yet) but I hope it does.
Of course it does. Success here will depend on a great deal on the words you choose to frame this. And you are right, the whining that accompanies the 'I wanna drink and I caaaaaaaaan't' is the AV, the voice of the addiction speaking. Recognize it as that pleasure drive gone wonky, bent on trading your life for just another coupla beers. It is any thought that points you back to drinking, or expresses doubt in your ability to choose and succeed. If you read around SR, you can see it all over the place.

You have decided that you don't drink, and that you will have a future with some calm, success, self respect and a little bit of happy now and then. You have made this rational decision, as any rational person in our position would do. You have the power in you to say No, no more.

'Can't' is AV. 'Don't and won't, dammit' are words that come from you. Recognize that AV when it pipes up and you will be able to separate what YOU want from what IT wants. Well done, NotDrunkRG. Awesome. Onward!
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:59 PM
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Plate of wings and water. Little whispers of weakness were crushed with "I don't."

While this is very satisfying my natural skepticism is all up-in-arms. Time, thought and research are still to come.

However, right at this moment, I'm pleased.

I gotta state emphatically that the comments in this thread are amazingly reinforcing.
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Old 06-07-2014, 07:07 PM
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Your natural skepticism? You mean doubt in your ability to succeed? Your disbelief that you can do this? Doubt that quitting drinking can really be as simple as not drinking? Your lack confidence that you will be able to stick to it?

This is AV. Set those thoughts and others like them aside, and instead know that you can do this, and that you shall do it. Know you deserve it. Your addiction is struggling, and nagging and whining. Too bad for it. No matter what it says, how you feel, you can do this.

I understand that I can drink, or I can have the life I want, but I cannot have both. I have decided and made my choice. I won't drink anymore, ever, and I am not ever changing my decision.
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:22 PM
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freshstart57: wow. I appreciate that response more than any other response I can think of.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:37 AM
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Yes, the AV is the ultimate "natural skeptic"!
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:49 PM
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Good to have you with us, notdrunkrg. AVRT has helped me immensely. Between AVRT and SR I've gone 20 months without drinking. Eventually the cravings have completely gone away.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MythOfSisyphus View Post
Good to have you with us, notdrunkrg. AVRT has helped me immensely. Between AVRT and SR I've gone 20 months without drinking. Eventually the cravings have completely gone away.
Excellent. Reading up on AV and the general methodology, it's geared toward the way I work like nothing else I've ever come across. For lack of a better word I am excited.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:21 AM
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Question: do clinicians ever recommend or suggest AVRT (or SMART)? Is doing do congruent with the DSM IV or V?

If this isn't appropriate to post, let me know.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:53 AM
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The ones I know just have handouts listing the various alcohol programs, and I've seen the 12 step programs on most of them.

By and large, the medical community (psychiatrists and mental health providers included, as well as doctors and other clinicians) are in need of enlightenment.

Medical schools STILL do not have enough education about addiction prevention and treatment.

In my opinion: The best clinicians in that regard? Those in recovery themselves.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:25 AM
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it's good to remember that AVRT is a technique, and not a program.
it's a technique to handle thoughts, basically, and is not specific to alcohol or alcoholism in that way. it is helpful in addiction for those crazy "AV thoughts" and in general life for some other "crazy-old-groove-habitual-negative-unreal-engrained-skewed-perspective-illogical-thinking" type blips that come up, but it's not a program as such.

as a technique, it's a tool that can be a valuable part of some programs, or it can stand alone and be sufficient for what you want to do.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:16 PM
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got my copy RR today. it is very enjoyable reading.
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:43 AM
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Avoid all mental health professionals when it comes to your drinking problem. Never allow anyone to enter into any legal or medical record that you are an alcoholic. Never tell anyone you are an alcoholic or abuse alcohol. The legal ramifications can follow you for decades.

Mental health professionals who have never been addicts are clueless and cannot be trusted, they all believe in Oprah recovery group crap and will prescribe group recovery and automatically dismiss self help, as they incorrectly view excessive drinking as a disease.
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:49 AM
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Thanks for that Greenwood618.

Not a popular viewpoint everyplace on SR, but one I share.
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:50 AM
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I am sure it will be removed soon
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Greenwood618 View Post
Mental health professionals who have never been addicts are clueless and cannot be trusted, they all believe in Oprah recovery group crap and will prescribe group recovery and automatically dismiss self help, as they incorrectly view excessive drinking as a disease.
In my experience, this is not true. All generalizations are false. Well, that has to be a false statement. Most generalizations are false. Some generalizations are false. OK, the generalization above is false.
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:15 AM
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Ha. Yes, I avoid presuming too much about any proclamation that contains the words "all" or "never."

However, as generalizations go, you could insert the words "many" and "most" and would not be far off reality.

As a player in the field, that is my experience with this game.
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:18 AM
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You guys can help yourself to the politically correct speech award, I don't want it. The statement is generally true, put that in your semantic pipe with your grammar police egghead sandwich and smoke it
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