Saying hi
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
Posts: 2,306
Hello notdrunk! I don't ascribe to AA theology (I'm a devout Atheist) but I do go to AA meetings to connect on the very human level of "our" struggle. It took awhile but I can pretty much hear the truth of what is really working for folks. Usually it is as simple as "don't drink even if your ass falls off and if it does, put it in a bag and call somebody and get to a meeting"--Hokey saying? yes! but better than taking a drink! We are probably 50 years from seeing some solid secular groups in every city but it is definitely the trend--you and I don't have 50 yrs. I guess what I'm saying is whatever people say they believe or how they wish to define themselves, if I listen closely and watch, I will see they struggle, want, win,sometimes lose and feel just like myself..
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 22
Went to a relatives grad party today (which was dry, even if it wasn't, I don't think it would have been too challenging, mostly distant family so barely know anyone) but my brother in law was there and one of the few things we have in common is beeeeer. In fact I believe it is the only thing we have in common.
With zero effort the beer popped into my head and I had moments of weakness where I slipped into a "I can't drink" mentality, which makes a whiny little turd (internally, none of this is external).
I've found replacing "can't" in my mind's voice with "don't" helps immensely. I don't know why this has never dawned on me before, but obviously that change in language changes the power balance.
So, ordinarily we would have left the grad party and went across town to my brother in laws where we would have swilled beer all night while our wives talked up inane things. Didn't do that (not to avoid the situation, but because of kid related obligations) so now we're on our way home (130 miles).
And lo, here's another spot where beer pops into my head: we need to stop and eat and normally we'd hit something brewpub-ish. Damn it. But again, saying "I don't drink" just changes the game for me. So here I go (after the wife comes out of H and M - I'm not typing this much while my family waits) - I'm going to a brewpub and gonna have some food and water, and let's see if I'm a salty little turdburglar or if I'm come out of it feeling stronger.
I don't know if this psychological game I'm playing makes up any of AVRT (haven't had the time to dig in yet) but I hope it does.
With zero effort the beer popped into my head and I had moments of weakness where I slipped into a "I can't drink" mentality, which makes a whiny little turd (internally, none of this is external).
I've found replacing "can't" in my mind's voice with "don't" helps immensely. I don't know why this has never dawned on me before, but obviously that change in language changes the power balance.
So, ordinarily we would have left the grad party and went across town to my brother in laws where we would have swilled beer all night while our wives talked up inane things. Didn't do that (not to avoid the situation, but because of kid related obligations) so now we're on our way home (130 miles).
And lo, here's another spot where beer pops into my head: we need to stop and eat and normally we'd hit something brewpub-ish. Damn it. But again, saying "I don't drink" just changes the game for me. So here I go (after the wife comes out of H and M - I'm not typing this much while my family waits) - I'm going to a brewpub and gonna have some food and water, and let's see if I'm a salty little turdburglar or if I'm come out of it feeling stronger.
I don't know if this psychological game I'm playing makes up any of AVRT (haven't had the time to dig in yet) but I hope it does.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Yes, I think it does. What begins as a "psychological game" is the first step towards a mental adjustment to a new self-identity as a nondrinker. "Can't" implies an unwillingness or inability -- whereas "don't" implies volition and determination. Big difference.
Others here are better versed on AVRT than I am, but once you recognize that ANY thinking that leads to taking a drink IS the addictive voice, you are on your way to learning to identify it. The addictive voice will tell you that you "can't" drink, for example, implying it is against your will, and you really do want to drink.
Self-identifying yourself as a nondrinker makes all other decisions very simple. You simply do not drink. Period. End of story. No explanations or reasons required.
Others here are better versed on AVRT than I am, but once you recognize that ANY thinking that leads to taking a drink IS the addictive voice, you are on your way to learning to identify it. The addictive voice will tell you that you "can't" drink, for example, implying it is against your will, and you really do want to drink.
Self-identifying yourself as a nondrinker makes all other decisions very simple. You simply do not drink. Period. End of story. No explanations or reasons required.
I've found replacing "can't" in my mind's voice with "don't" helps immensely. I don't know why this has never dawned on me before, but obviously that change in language changes the power balance.
I don't know if this psychological game I'm playing makes up any of AVRT (haven't had the time to dig in yet) but I hope it does.
I don't know if this psychological game I'm playing makes up any of AVRT (haven't had the time to dig in yet) but I hope it does.
You have decided that you don't drink, and that you will have a future with some calm, success, self respect and a little bit of happy now and then. You have made this rational decision, as any rational person in our position would do. You have the power in you to say No, no more.
'Can't' is AV. 'Don't and won't, dammit' are words that come from you. Recognize that AV when it pipes up and you will be able to separate what YOU want from what IT wants. Well done, NotDrunkRG. Awesome. Onward!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 22
Plate of wings and water. Little whispers of weakness were crushed with "I don't."
While this is very satisfying my natural skepticism is all up-in-arms. Time, thought and research are still to come.
However, right at this moment, I'm pleased.
I gotta state emphatically that the comments in this thread are amazingly reinforcing.
While this is very satisfying my natural skepticism is all up-in-arms. Time, thought and research are still to come.
However, right at this moment, I'm pleased.
I gotta state emphatically that the comments in this thread are amazingly reinforcing.
Your natural skepticism? You mean doubt in your ability to succeed? Your disbelief that you can do this? Doubt that quitting drinking can really be as simple as not drinking? Your lack confidence that you will be able to stick to it?
This is AV. Set those thoughts and others like them aside, and instead know that you can do this, and that you shall do it. Know you deserve it. Your addiction is struggling, and nagging and whining. Too bad for it. No matter what it says, how you feel, you can do this.
I understand that I can drink, or I can have the life I want, but I cannot have both. I have decided and made my choice. I won't drink anymore, ever, and I am not ever changing my decision.
This is AV. Set those thoughts and others like them aside, and instead know that you can do this, and that you shall do it. Know you deserve it. Your addiction is struggling, and nagging and whining. Too bad for it. No matter what it says, how you feel, you can do this.
I understand that I can drink, or I can have the life I want, but I cannot have both. I have decided and made my choice. I won't drink anymore, ever, and I am not ever changing my decision.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 22
Excellent. Reading up on AV and the general methodology, it's geared toward the way I work like nothing else I've ever come across. For lack of a better word I am excited.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
The ones I know just have handouts listing the various alcohol programs, and I've seen the 12 step programs on most of them.
By and large, the medical community (psychiatrists and mental health providers included, as well as doctors and other clinicians) are in need of enlightenment.
Medical schools STILL do not have enough education about addiction prevention and treatment.
In my opinion: The best clinicians in that regard? Those in recovery themselves.
By and large, the medical community (psychiatrists and mental health providers included, as well as doctors and other clinicians) are in need of enlightenment.
Medical schools STILL do not have enough education about addiction prevention and treatment.
In my opinion: The best clinicians in that regard? Those in recovery themselves.
it's good to remember that AVRT is a technique, and not a program.
it's a technique to handle thoughts, basically, and is not specific to alcohol or alcoholism in that way. it is helpful in addiction for those crazy "AV thoughts" and in general life for some other "crazy-old-groove-habitual-negative-unreal-engrained-skewed-perspective-illogical-thinking" type blips that come up, but it's not a program as such.
as a technique, it's a tool that can be a valuable part of some programs, or it can stand alone and be sufficient for what you want to do.
it's a technique to handle thoughts, basically, and is not specific to alcohol or alcoholism in that way. it is helpful in addiction for those crazy "AV thoughts" and in general life for some other "crazy-old-groove-habitual-negative-unreal-engrained-skewed-perspective-illogical-thinking" type blips that come up, but it's not a program as such.
as a technique, it's a tool that can be a valuable part of some programs, or it can stand alone and be sufficient for what you want to do.
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 170
Avoid all mental health professionals when it comes to your drinking problem. Never allow anyone to enter into any legal or medical record that you are an alcoholic. Never tell anyone you are an alcoholic or abuse alcohol. The legal ramifications can follow you for decades.
Mental health professionals who have never been addicts are clueless and cannot be trusted, they all believe in Oprah recovery group crap and will prescribe group recovery and automatically dismiss self help, as they incorrectly view excessive drinking as a disease.
Mental health professionals who have never been addicts are clueless and cannot be trusted, they all believe in Oprah recovery group crap and will prescribe group recovery and automatically dismiss self help, as they incorrectly view excessive drinking as a disease.
Mental health professionals who have never been addicts are clueless and cannot be trusted, they all believe in Oprah recovery group crap and will prescribe group recovery and automatically dismiss self help, as they incorrectly view excessive drinking as a disease.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Ha. Yes, I avoid presuming too much about any proclamation that contains the words "all" or "never."
However, as generalizations go, you could insert the words "many" and "most" and would not be far off reality.
As a player in the field, that is my experience with this game.
However, as generalizations go, you could insert the words "many" and "most" and would not be far off reality.
As a player in the field, that is my experience with this game.
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