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Old 05-13-2014, 05:48 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by readerbaby71 View Post
I don't like the term "character defects" and the way it's overused. Human beings are not defective. Everyone has shortcomings whether they're addicts or not.
This ^. I have character traits, not defects. Some are just a little more annoying than others.

Originally Posted by caboblanco View Post
take what you need and leave the rest? Oh really so I can go there and get cookies and coffee and then leave?
Seen this happen a lot in urban meetings. I guess these were the literalists.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:56 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
This is a remark made to someone who is thinking about attending a social function where alcohol would be served. 'If you keep going to the barbershop, sooner or later you are going to get a haircut.'

Now for me, I can't imagine getting a haircut if I didn't make the active decision to have one. No barber works for free and I need to pay them, that's one reason. They aren't really that sneaky, I can spot em a mile away, they have those scissors an stuff. And that cape around the neck thing is a dead giveaway too.
thank you for allowing me to snort my tea through my nose....and I don't have a barber....I have a HAIRDRESSER in a SALON....he is a coloring fiend and specialist, and he certainly asks me if I want to color my gray hair as a conscious decision.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:06 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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"your best thinking got you here"

this one perplexes me...it can be read as a diss on the program.

you're best thinking got you to this program....or your best thinking got you to this horrible hot mess of a person you are right now(most really aren't) either way it's like trying to say stop thinking because you are a dumb dumb
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:22 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I don't even like the word "program." I'm not a computer.

-DrS
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:46 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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  • "In recovery."
I'm not "in recovery." I'm recovered, and I'm on a lifelong journey of personal growth as a result of being recovered and not wanting to go back to where I was.
  • "You best thinking got you here."
Yes, my best thinking got me nearly a year abstinent from drugs, alcohol, and addictive behaviors, and my worst thinking got me addicted.
  • "Working a program."
I don't 'work a program.' I have a supportive community I identify with and a personal philosophy that expressly does not include use of addictive substances and behaviors.
  • "Addict / alcoholic"
I am not an "addict" or "alcoholic." That would be as logical as someone who just recovered from a viral illness calling themselves "a recovering virus." Besides, I'm about defining myself for the future, not disempowering myself by engaging in self-definition based on my past. I'm a teetotaler. I'm a sobrietist.
  • "Powerless"
I'm not powerless, ridiculous. Choosing to, and being successful at having abstinence be my long-term goal is an expression of personal power.
  • "It works if you work it."
So if it doesn't work, then it's my fault? So if I go to get chemotherapy and it fails and my cancer kills me, then "it didn't work because I didn't work it?" That's called victim-blaming.
  • "Let go and let God."
How about just let go, and leave the invisible men in the sky for someone who believes in fairy tales?
et cetera

-DrS
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:26 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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From the other side of the house, Al-Anon, and I have to agree with most of what was said here.

Except for powerlessness. Now before you raise your hackles you need to know I am a half-assed Buddhist with a mindfulness practice and there is a lot of good stuff in there.

To me powerlessness means giving up the illusion of control. I can't control other people, places or things. I can't even control my own thoughts or emotions. But, what I do have is the power to make choices. When a thought pops up in my head I have the choice to follow it or not, to pay attention to it or not, to let it take over or not. When I am feeling strong emotions I have the choice to attach to that emotion and run with it or to simply let it go. When something bothers me I have the choice to let it ruin my day or simply watch it float away.

That is real power.

A great zen saying that describes this better than I can.

I am a mountain.
My thoughts and emotions are clouds.
The clouds can't move the mountain, the mountain doesn't cling to the clouds.

Hope this makes sense.

Your friend,
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:46 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Hey, Mike, thought you would like this:

May 14, 2014

WANDERING IN THE WORLD OF DESIRE

Wandering in the world of desire involves looking for alternatives, seeking something to comfort us—food, drink, people. The word desire encompasses that addiction quality, the way we grab for something because we want to find a way to make things okay. That quality comes from never having grown up. We still want to go home and be able to open the refrigerator and find it full of our favorite goodies; when the going gets tough, we want to yell “Mom!” But what we’re doing as we progress along the path is leaving home and becoming homeless. Not wandering in the world of desire is about relating directly with how things are. Loneliness is not a problem. Loneliness is nothing to be solved. The same is true for any other experience we might have.

Pema Chodron
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:54 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Thanks Readerbaby, I wasn't familiar with any of her work. I'm usually not a fan of Tibetan Buddhism but I looked up some of her quotes and they really hit him.

This one really struck me and is exactly what I was trying to say.

“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”
― Pema Chödrön
Your friend,
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:56 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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I really like her writing style. It's more modern and not as esoteric as other Buddhist writings. She's also hilarious and puts a lighthearted slant on things that are dark and hard to face without minimizing the importance of dealing with them.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:57 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by readerbaby71 View Post
Hey, Mike, thought you would like this: May 14, 2014 WANDERING IN THE WORLD OF DESIRE Wandering in the world of desire involves looking for alternatives, seeking something to comfort us—food, drink, people. The word desire encompasses that addiction quality, the way we grab for something because we want to find a way to make things okay. That quality comes from never having grown up. We still want to go home and be able to open the refrigerator and find it full of our favorite goodies; when the going gets tough, we want to yell “Mom!” But what we’re doing as we progress along the path is leaving home and becoming homeless. Not wandering in the world of desire is about relating directly with how things are. Loneliness is not a problem. Loneliness is nothing to be solved. The same is true for any other experience we might have. Pema Chodron
Omg, I relate to this all too well. Thanks
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:15 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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I really don't know that much any more the older I get, but one thing is true - if you can't stand to be with yourself, You are in bad company. or I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not. namaste. zig
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:18 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by readerbaby71 View Post
I really like her writing style. It's more modern and not as esoteric as other Buddhist writings. She's also hilarious and puts a lighthearted slant on things that are dark and hard to face without minimizing the importance of dealing with them.
I like her style too. Good stuff.
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:33 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Addict - Two reasons:
1. What other medical problem asks you to identify yourself by using a label, as if it represents who you are… I do hear people identify themselves as a diabetic from time to time, but its usually to explain why they keep refusing cake at the office party, or why they are the only one not eating at dinner. There is also relatively low stigma attached to saying your diabetic, very untrue of the word “addict” unfortunately.

2. Way too common is the use of the term "addict" to lump every person with an addiction together. To show how ALL ADDICTS think, feel, why they started using drugs, why they stopped. People are not generic.

Codependent - I think its way overused in terms of family members. Its got to the point where if you have an addict or alcoholic in your life your automatically deemed a codependent. If you utter a word about wanting to help your loved one, your labeled codependent. Are you automatically codependent if you want to help your loved one who suffers from major depression, or cancer. Not that Ive seen….

Recovering Addict - I think this is only valid for a short period of time, during acute care for addiction, and transition back to everyday life…. My husband has Recovered from his addiction and now just focuses on leading a healthy life (same as I do – a non-addict).

All Rehabs are the same – Not by a long shot

"He/She didn’t want it bad enough" – for example when someone relapses… there are multiple complex reasons for relapse. Including not getting adequate treatment that meets a persons needs. We don't blame the cancer patient who doesn't get cured with the first treatment, or the person with PTSD who goes through multiple meds or types of therapy in an attempt to get well. Phrases like this place blame... they are not solution based.

"There’s Nothing You can Do to Help an Addict " - As a family member you cant cure addiction. You also cant cure cancer or diabetes. This has nothing to do with “helping”. Can you help a family member who has a major depression? Diabetes? Alzheimer’s? Sometimes….. As a family member you have a great deal of influence, know your loved one probably better than anyone else, may have the ability to help provide access to necessary medical and psychological treatment, be a positive force to motivate, encourage, listen, and to love. All situations are unique.

"If a person doesn’t commit to a program for life then they aren’t serious about recovery" - Most people with addictions recover on their own. Others use recovery resources but eventually move on to live healthy balanced lives without any program.

"If a person wants it bad enough, they will do anything, accept any help offered" …. To a point this is true… but is it the goal for a person to drop so low they are this desperate? People shouldn’t have to submit to any help offered...because its considered their only hope. Options for recovery should rise up to meet each person’s unique needs.

Character or Spiritual Defect - Stigma plus I agree people aren’t defective in such ways, and again addiction happens because of changes in the brain.

"A person in recovery needs to be humble".... I think its true to a point, but way overused and who determines if a person is humble enough?

"It all stems from the Ego" - Being egotistical is not a good trait, but I thought addiction happened in the brain? My husband became addicted after an injury and multiple surgeries… his ego was fine.

Referring to someone as a ‘Slow Learner’ or saying they will ‘get it when they get it’ – Both are condescending, and dont take into account some ideas and concepts about recovery are outright rejected by individuals. The person is not slow, or failing to get it. IT just doesn’t work for them.

Enabling - in terms of family members behaviors… It’s a word that is now associated with showing an addicted person any amount of kindness, friendship, or love. Don’t do anything for anyone they can do for themselves or your enabling. .. Anything , ever? People are becoming afraid to have any interaction for fear its enabling and doing harm. Interactions that might be positive for both parties are being lost due to misconceptions about addiction.

(Your husband is an addict/recovering addict…aka recovered addict)

"Whats wrong with you for being with him ?"
"Your picker is broken"
"You need to work on you" (to figure out why your with him)

Insulting for starters… negative STIGMA against people with addiction issues and their ability to recover long term. Negative stereotyping of the spouse/partner as a troubled soul or codependent. My husband didn’t use drugs until he became addicted to a prescription. I could no more predict it than I could his getting cancer or having a heart attack. He has always been more than an addiction and completely worthy of my love, and capable of being my life partner. If he had been diagnosed as Bipolar (without drug use), with cancer, or became a paraplegic would people ask me the same questions about why Im with still with him?
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:57 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by allforcnm View Post
Addict - Two reasons:
1. What other medical problem asks you to identify yourself by using a label, as if it represents who you are… I do hear people identify themselves as a diabetic from time to time, but its usually to explain why they keep refusing cake at the office party, or why they are the only one not eating at dinner. There is also relatively low stigma attached to saying your diabetic, very untrue of the word “addict” unfortunately.

2. Way too common is the use of the term "addict" to lump every person with an addiction together. To show how ALL ADDICTS think, feel, why they started using drugs, why they stopped. People are not generic.

Codependent - I think its way overused in terms of family members. Its got to the point where if you have an addict or alcoholic in your life your automatically deemed a codependent. If you utter a word about wanting to help your loved one, your labeled codependent. Are you automatically codependent if you want to help your loved one who suffers from major depression, or cancer. Not that Ive seen….

Recovering Addict - I think this is only valid for a short period of time, during acute care for addiction, and transition back to everyday life…. My husband has Recovered from his addiction and now just focuses on leading a healthy life (same as I do – a non-addict).

All Rehabs are the same – Not by a long shot

"He/She didn’t want it bad enough" – for example when someone relapses… there are multiple complex reasons for relapse. Including not getting adequate treatment that meets a persons needs. We don't blame the cancer patient who doesn't get cured with the first treatment, or the person with PTSD who goes through multiple meds or types of therapy in an attempt to get well. Phrases like this place blame... they are not solution based.

"There’s Nothing You can Do to Help an Addict " - As a family member you cant cure addiction. You also cant cure cancer or diabetes. This has nothing to do with “helping”. Can you help a family member who has a major depression? Diabetes? Alzheimer’s? Sometimes….. As a family member you have a great deal of influence, know your loved one probably better than anyone else, may have the ability to help provide access to necessary medical and psychological treatment, be a positive force to motivate, encourage, listen, and to love. All situations are unique.

"If a person doesn’t commit to a program for life then they aren’t serious about recovery" - Most people with addictions recover on their own. Others use recovery resources but eventually move on to live healthy balanced lives without any program.

"If a person wants it bad enough, they will do anything, accept any help offered" …. To a point this is true… but is it the goal for a person to drop so low they are this desperate? People shouldn’t have to submit to any help offered...because its considered their only hope. Options for recovery should rise up to meet each person’s unique needs.

Character or Spiritual Defect - Stigma plus I agree people aren’t defective in such ways, and again addiction happens because of changes in the brain.

"A person in recovery needs to be humble".... I think its true to a point, but way overused and who determines if a person is humble enough?

"It all stems from the Ego" - Being egotistical is not a good trait, but I thought addiction happened in the brain? My husband became addicted after an injury and multiple surgeries… his ego was fine.

Referring to someone as a ‘Slow Learner’ or saying they will ‘get it when they get it’ – Both are condescending, and dont take into account some ideas and concepts about recovery are outright rejected by individuals. The person is not slow, or failing to get it. IT just doesn’t work for them.

Enabling - in terms of family members behaviors… It’s a word that is now associated with showing an addicted person any amount of kindness, friendship, or love. Don’t do anything for anyone they can do for themselves or your enabling. .. Anything , ever? People are becoming afraid to have any interaction for fear its enabling and doing harm. Interactions that might be positive for both parties are being lost due to misconceptions about addiction.

(Your husband is an addict/recovering addict…aka recovered addict)

"Whats wrong with you for being with him ?"
"Your picker is broken"
"You need to work on you" (to figure out why your with him)

Insulting for starters… negative STIGMA against people with addiction issues and their ability to recover long term. Negative stereotyping of the spouse/partner as a troubled soul or codependent. My husband didn’t use drugs until he became addicted to a prescription. I could no more predict it than I could his getting cancer or having a heart attack. He has always been more than an addiction and completely worthy of my love, and capable of being my life partner. If he had been diagnosed as Bipolar (without drug use), with cancer, or became a paraplegic would people ask me the same questions about why Im with still with him?
Excellent post. I've been reading the book you recommended, Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change. I love it. It's refreshing to see a different perspective on how to help a loved one with an addiction problem. I also like that they go into the physiological part of addiction in the brain in depth. It's very interesting and enlightening to me. As someone who has had problems with alcohol and bipolar disorder, I wish I would have discovered a lot of these things years ago.

The whole codependency thing gets old. There is so much more to it than being "addicted" to someone. Speaking of that another part of the "lingo" that I hate is "codie". LOL Don't get me wrong, I do think 12-step programs have valuable things to offer. Some of the alanon literature really helped me in the beginning. I didn't find it necessary to continue with meetings as I didn't get much out of them. I absorb more when reading anyway.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:19 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
 
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Along with "codie", I also dislike "normie". "My addict" or "My alcoholic" are also a super weird phrases.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:36 AM
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Couldn't agree more, soberlicious.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:15 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
"My addict, My alcoholic" are also a super weird phrases.
I think these do a number on your subconscious after a while. I thought it was a easy way to explain at first when talking, but now I think its creepy and to keep repeating it to yourself and identify your partner as an addict or alcoholic alters the thought process of identifying with him as a whole complex person. In my counseling the doctor told me specifically NOT TO STOP THINKING ABOUT MY HUSBAND AS A WHOLE PERSON.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:56 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LBrain View Post
Until I find god I will forever be a dry drunk.
Isn't that the same as calling someone an ahole? Just tell them that was kind of what you were going for.
I am thinking of completely dropping sober and sobriety. It's just life now.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:49 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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When I got here to SR, I felt so beat up by all the different words, phrases and terminology, that have been mentioned in this thread, that I can't even describe how disgusted and down trodden I felt about myself. No matter how many years I had not drank (13 years), I always felt I was being chased by the boogey man called alcohol.

After 13 years of "sobriety" (ahem) I drank. I drank for 5 more years until I joined here one night in the early part of January 2013. In that very first thread of mine, I found the truth that had eluded me for years. YEARS! Freshstart, soberlicious, gerandtwine, and others helped me save my own ass that night.

So, this thread is hard for me to read. It ticks me off to have to hear all this junk again but it's good for me because I realize all this stuff no longer has the stronghold it had on me when I first got here.

I don't drink and that will never change. Ever. With that monkey off my back I am now free to explore ME and gain insight into myself by way of a wonderful therapist, those I've befriended here and learning mindfulness, etc.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:02 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
 
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I want to completely drop the word sober too...but abstinentolicious just doesn't have the same ring to it. Nondrinkolicious? Teetotalicious? Or I could just go by 'licious...but it's a little too gangsta rapper for my taste.
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