When will I get this?
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Nonsensical 
I have struggled with this as well.
Everyone has different ways of framing these hurdles that works for them. For me personally, it helps a lot to remember to forgive myself and to treat myself with compassion. The more I beat myself up, the longer I stay in the dark place that strengthens the desire to drink, or makes me feel hopeless and want to give up.
I understand the AV and Beast concept, but it helps me more to see those voices and desires as a part of me, not a separate thing. The part of me that wants alcohol is the part of me that wants the easy fix, to not have to find other ways to cope with whatever feelings I don't want to feel. It's the part of me that is like a scared unruly child; it throws tantrums, demands, wants without thinking about consequences (or does and doesn't care). When this part of me screws up, I used to make it (me) feel like crap. I still do sometimes because that's what I've been taught - punishment is how you get people to behave, and if it doesn't, punish even harder! But that clearly doesn't work for me or I would have been sober years ago. I respond way better to positive reinforcement; compassion gives me energy to try again, berating and judging drains me of energy and makes me more likely to want to booze more.
So in terms of lying, I don't think I "lied" to myself when I say I will stop and I end up slipping. I see it as the child-me getting the keys to the car and driving off. It's up to adult-me to make sure she doesn't get them again. However you want to look at it, the method you find that will reduce the time you sit on the floor after a fall so you can get up and move on with moving on, the faster this recovery process will be. No matter what happens or worries your mind tortures you with, you know that ultimately, it comes down to a choice, and you DO get to choose.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Originally Posted by NightsWatch
Everyone has different ways of framing these hurdles that works for them.
If you want evidence of that, just post the question "What does powerless mean" on the newcomer's board and see how many different responses you get - both from people who believe it pertains to stopping chronic alcohol consumption and those who don't.
People have a natural bias toward the method of sober living that works for them, and will try to help others see the same truth that they see. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Only the individual can determine whether or not it does. Glasshalffull needs to determine what the next move is on the road to his/her sober life.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by NightsWatch
Me too. It's a horrible feeling to think that you can't trust yourself.
Everyone has different ways of framing these hurdles that works for them. For me personally, it helps a lot to remember to forgive myself and to treat myself with compassion. The more I beat myself up, the longer I stay in the dark place that strengthens the desire to drink, or makes me feel hopeless and want to give up.
I understand the AV and Beast concept, but it helps me more to see those voices and desires as a part of me, not a separate thing. The part of me that wants alcohol is the part of me that wants the easy fix, to not have to find other ways to cope with whatever feelings I don't want to feel. It's the part of me that is like a scared unruly child; it throws tantrums, demands, wants without thinking about consequences (or does and doesn't care). When this part of me screws up, I used to make it (me) feel like crap. I still do sometimes because that's what I've been taught - punishment is how you get people to behave, and if it doesn't, punish even harder! But that clearly doesn't work for me or I would have been sober years ago. I respond way better to positive reinforcement; compassion gives me energy to try again, berating and judging drains me of energy and makes me more likely to want to booze more.
So in terms of lying, I don't think I "lied" to myself when I say I will stop and I end up slipping. I see it as the child-me getting the keys to the car and driving off. It's up to adult-me to make sure she doesn't get them again. However you want to look at it, the method you find that will reduce the time you sit on the floor after a fall so you can get up and move on with moving on, the faster this recovery process will be. No matter what happens or worries your mind tortures you with, you know that ultimately, it comes down to a choice, and you DO get to choose.
Everyone has different ways of framing these hurdles that works for them. For me personally, it helps a lot to remember to forgive myself and to treat myself with compassion. The more I beat myself up, the longer I stay in the dark place that strengthens the desire to drink, or makes me feel hopeless and want to give up.
I understand the AV and Beast concept, but it helps me more to see those voices and desires as a part of me, not a separate thing. The part of me that wants alcohol is the part of me that wants the easy fix, to not have to find other ways to cope with whatever feelings I don't want to feel. It's the part of me that is like a scared unruly child; it throws tantrums, demands, wants without thinking about consequences (or does and doesn't care). When this part of me screws up, I used to make it (me) feel like crap. I still do sometimes because that's what I've been taught - punishment is how you get people to behave, and if it doesn't, punish even harder! But that clearly doesn't work for me or I would have been sober years ago. I respond way better to positive reinforcement; compassion gives me energy to try again, berating and judging drains me of energy and makes me more likely to want to booze more.
So in terms of lying, I don't think I "lied" to myself when I say I will stop and I end up slipping. I see it as the child-me getting the keys to the car and driving off. It's up to adult-me to make sure she doesn't get them again. However you want to look at it, the method you find that will reduce the time you sit on the floor after a fall so you can get up and move on with moving on, the faster this recovery process will be. No matter what happens or worries your mind tortures you with, you know that ultimately, it comes down to a choice, and you DO get to choose.
Although I like to consider the Beast a separate entity; it makes it easier for me to understand; I know it is not and never will be. I must ACCEPT that it is part of me and recognize I have total control over what IT/I does/do.
Tremendously helpful post. Really makes me think.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 306
In addition, I think if it helps to think of your beast as an "unruly child" then do so. Essentially, it is very child-like in its nature, isn't it? It wants what it wants without logic or reason......it possesses an admirable survival drive. Whatever imagery you choose to represent it doesn't matter at all. I also like what you wrote about self-forgiveness and compassion. It is important to remember these concepts.
Speaking for myself, I had to forgive myself BEFORE I made my Final Decision because that allowed me to release the past. Only then, could I move forward to choose permanent abstinence. Then I'm done. Don't have to worry about the past and the future has taken care of itself because I chose to embrace the concept of NEVER. Compassion comes into play when we remember how awful things were before we became abstinent; we can help and support others (if they request) to become permanently abstinent. I truly appreciate this forum because I may take advantage of the knowledge and insight from others and offer my insight in return.
Speaking for myself, I had to forgive myself BEFORE I made my Final Decision because that allowed me to release the past. Only then, could I move forward to choose permanent abstinence. Then I'm done. Don't have to worry about the past and the future has taken care of itself because I chose to embrace the concept of NEVER. Compassion comes into play when we remember how awful things were before we became abstinent; we can help and support others (if they request) to become permanently abstinent. I truly appreciate this forum because I may take advantage of the knowledge and insight from others and offer my insight in return.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 19
The responses to this thread are truly amazing. I think you all get it that a bigger part of me wants sobriety than not. To tame that 'not' bit is what I need to learn how to do.
I feel angry with my AV, so when I think of it or hear that whisper 'have a drink, go on' all I want to do is to tell it to f-off. I want to beat it up. I wonder whether thinking of it as a child might help me more.
So I am back to day one. Right now, I feel strong. It is morning, I know what I did last night, and am not suffering a crippling hangover. So for this part, it is relatively easy. The sense of relief of being sober.
How to face my AV when I am a week or two in, tired, feeling anxious and stressed etc, is what I have to learn. It feels like I have thrown the child the keys to the car in exasperation. I am sure that changes to diet, some exercise and meditation will help me. I know that sounds trite, but I wonder if keeping an even keel is what I need most (as well as using RR tools and reading and checking in here). It seems that when my buttons are pushed, my resolve goes out the window.
I feel angry with my AV, so when I think of it or hear that whisper 'have a drink, go on' all I want to do is to tell it to f-off. I want to beat it up. I wonder whether thinking of it as a child might help me more.
So I am back to day one. Right now, I feel strong. It is morning, I know what I did last night, and am not suffering a crippling hangover. So for this part, it is relatively easy. The sense of relief of being sober.
How to face my AV when I am a week or two in, tired, feeling anxious and stressed etc, is what I have to learn. It feels like I have thrown the child the keys to the car in exasperation. I am sure that changes to diet, some exercise and meditation will help me. I know that sounds trite, but I wonder if keeping an even keel is what I need most (as well as using RR tools and reading and checking in here). It seems that when my buttons are pushed, my resolve goes out the window.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
Glass, for me the key is "never" and "no matter what". I repeat it as necessary, and especially when the Beast is really acting up. I don't know exactly why it works; although, I'd wager it's the psychological commitment to "never". And repeating "no matter what" lets me stand my ground even during the worst assault from the Beast.
Like you, the two week mark has been pivotal, but I found that staying committed during that period wasn't as difficult this time around.
Like you, the two week mark has been pivotal, but I found that staying committed during that period wasn't as difficult this time around.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Originally Posted by glasshalffull
I feel angry with my AV, so when I think of it or hear that whisper 'have a drink, go on' all I want to do is to tell it to f-off. I want to beat it up. I wonder whether thinking of it as a child might help me more.
It also helped me to understand that the compulsion to drink- the beast - originates in a part of the brain that does not process logic and has no memory. It doesn't know fear. It can't be threatened, intimidated, educated, bargained with, or shamed. The only way to influence it is to feed it and make it stronger or starve it and make it weaker. When seeking a sober life the choice is obvious.
The part of your brain making that choice (to feed it or starve it) responds to all kinds of stimuli - good and bad. Nutrition, exercise, and meditation are three good ones...so GET ON IT!
You can do this!
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: na
Posts: 9
I'm on day 4 myself, and the AV hasn't reared up yet, but I've been working 13 hour days, the loudest it gets is when outside in the backyard on a summer night (the rest of the week). I will have to find my fortitude tomorrow and make it through like you. You can do it
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by cncquads
I'm on day 4 myself, and the AV hasn't reared up yet, but I've been working 13 hour days, the loudest it gets is when outside in the backyard on a summer night (the rest of the week). I will have to find my fortitude tomorrow and make it through like you. You can do it
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Originally Posted by Nonsensical
I agree.
If you want evidence of that, just post the question "What does powerless mean" on the newcomer's board and see how many different responses you get - both from people who believe it pertains to stopping chronic alcohol consumption and those who don't.
People have a natural bias toward the method of sober living that works for them, and will try to help others see the same truth that they see. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Only the individual can determine whether or not it does. Glasshalffull needs to determine what the next move is on the road to his/her sober life.
If you want evidence of that, just post the question "What does powerless mean" on the newcomer's board and see how many different responses you get - both from people who believe it pertains to stopping chronic alcohol consumption and those who don't.
People have a natural bias toward the method of sober living that works for them, and will try to help others see the same truth that they see. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Only the individual can determine whether or not it does. Glasshalffull needs to determine what the next move is on the road to his/her sober life.
That's the sort of stuff that drove me completely off SR a couple of years ago.
Yes the AV and Beast ARE parts of us. Rather than fearing them, or even hating them, I've come to appreciate them as part of the checks and balances of human homeostasis. Our basal urges, which is what they really represent, are an important part of human survival. Often times, they only remind us that we are hungry, angry, lonely, tired (remember HALT?) -- or more importantly, injured or ill. Consider PICA, the strange symptom of compulsively eating non-foods, which often signals anemia or other pathological state.
My Beast can be very childlike for sure. Some basal urges need to be fed, but not the one that says to use drugs or drink. After I became a non-drinker, that door was closed and any noises I hear to the contrary are just noises.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: na
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Boudicca
Welcome to the forum, c! Sometimes I think work is the best "medicine" for what ails us. BTW, you have an absolutely gorgeous canine. Incredible. Husky?
Thank you, he's a pain in the ass but he's ours, and a little husky. lol :P
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