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Old 06-16-2014, 06:57 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Super-inspiring thread!
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:01 PM
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hey, great to hear!

keep going, GHF1
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:50 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Just spent 2 days with work, culminating in a football game. We first went to a massive tent sponsored by a beer company. Great... I kept saying to myself ' I will never drink again and I will never change my mind'. Then to dinner, where getting a non- alcoholic drink was like pulling teeth.

Even more happy to be sober now. Can't lie though, that event was hard to attend.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:45 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
I understand that strictly speaking I would not be doing RR with Campral and Antibuse, but that's the way I'm doing it.
I disagree. They are not party drugs, they are medications. If I knew about Campral I may have gotten it, if my insomnia doesn't go away soon, I just might go to the doctor and discuss it.
You are doing great!!
PS My AV did not like the sound of that Antabuse, roflmao
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist View Post
That speaks to me. It's like, you can't just WANT to want-to-be-sober, you have to want sobriety without effort. Everything else everyone says about early recovery is pretty much true (I'm living it) but when you just naturally want sobriety, it's just necessary hard work you do, rather than it being an ongoing struggle.

All that other stuff about hitting bottom is hooey. Either your bottom is death or at some point you just make the decision.

-DrS
This really speaks to me, Doc. I truly realized that I wasn't going to have a bottom. My bottom was everyday. I was going to keep drinking until I died. The "bottom" I was waiting for was a canard. Thanks for reminding me.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:17 PM
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Clocked up two weeks. Can't say I've found paradise but I've got a life. Which is a lot more than I can say about my drinking days.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:38 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
Clocked up two weeks. Can't say I've found paradise but I've got a life. Which is a lot more than I can say about my drinking days.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for this.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:39 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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I failed tonight. I am a disgrace. My wife is away on holidays for 3 weeks and I have the children. I feel like a failure
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
I failed tonight. I am a disgrace. My wife is away on holidays for 3 weeks and I have the children. I feel like a failure
That is your AV speaking. Get back up, dust yourself off and TRY AGAIN! Don't let it win!

You can do this! Make your Final Decision again. Do you have a source of peer support?

I am rooting for you. Believe me, I failed more times than I can count.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:29 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
I failed tonight. I am a disgrace. My wife is away on holidays for 3 weeks and I have the children. I feel like a failure
I had a eureka moment in using AVRT when I realized I was incapable of failure about swallowing or not swallowing a particular substance. The Technique of Addictive Voice Recognition forced me to look VERY CLOSELY at what I was thinking and feeling at the times in the recent past when I had decided to swallow some more of what I knew was wrong for me to swallow at all. The Recognition of what was going on during those moments just before I swallowed again proved to me that I had NOT failed. I had simply reversed my intention and decided to swallow some more. That was not a failure. It was a clear and conscious decision. A successful swallowing.

Every time I choose something to either swallow or not swallow, I succeed quite admirably. Swallowing is very easy, deliberate, hand-to-mouth, in-my-face, three inches from my watching eyes, one inch from my smelling nose, thing to do. It is very hard to fail at swallowing something.

What were the actual words and feelings that were going through your head during the moments before you swallowed some more booze?
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:09 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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I was so tensed up and tired and sick. Kids keeping coming into bed at 3am and being kids of course sleep across the bed. I don't function well with lack of sleep. I started to forget to take the antibuse, - but felt strong and didn't premeditate a drunk like before.
It happened late yesterday afternoon when I started to get drinking thoughts. I recognised it as my AV and told it to f- off. But then I had problems with my daughter (long story, but she didn't want to go to her flute lesson) It all felt like it was the last straw and all too hard and I thought 'stuff it, I'm going to have a drink' Something I am very aware of is my lax attitude to reducing stress. Meditation and exercise may have helped.
Thank you all so much for your encouraging posts. I don't really have anyone to talk to about this atm. I have had the post-drunk guilts this morning but they are easing. Yes, I am back to being a sober person today. I will never drink again and will bloody well never change my mind.
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:20 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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On June 12, you said:
I will never drink again and I will never change my mind. Ever. I am a sober person and no voice in my head can or will convince me otherwise.
A few weeks later here's your reasoning for violating what you presented as a lifetime pledge:
Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
... It all felt like it was the last straw and all too hard and I thought 'stuff it, I'm going to have a drink' ...
It's important to understand the importance of NEVER and realize that YOU really do have the capacity to not swallow alcohol ever again.

To know my Big Plan is solid, it is NOT important for me to know that each and every day all over the world, thousands of people are SUCCESSFULLY becoming commonplace permanent abstainers by making that identical pledge: "I will never drink again", because even if I were the only person I ever heard of who had made such a pledge, I know, for me, that pledge would still be absolute and rock solid.

My Addictive Voice would have loved for me to spout off "never again" before I really meant it. Before I quit for good, I certainly did lie to OTHER people about not drinking any more, but I knew better, myself. Do you believe you can lie to yourself?
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:29 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
On June 12, you said:

A few weeks later here's your reasoning for violating what you presented as a lifetime pledge:


It's important to understand the importance of NEVER and realize that YOU really do have the capacity to not swallow alcohol ever again.

To know my Big Plan is solid, it is NOT important for me to know that each and every day all over the world, thousands of people are SUCCESSFULLY becoming commonplace permanent abstainers by making that identical pledge: "I will never drink again", because even if I were the only person I ever heard of who had made such a pledge, I know, for me, that pledge would still be absolute and rock solid.

My Addictive Voice would have loved for me to spout off "never again" before I really meant it. Before I quit for good, I certainly did lie to OTHER people about not drinking any more, but I knew better, myself. Do you believe you can lie to yourself?
This is an important point, G. I thought I could lie to myself.....I tried for years to do so. It never really worked, however. Deep down inside, I always knew I was in trouble and what I was doing was wrong for me.

Now that I have equated drinking with violating some moral imperative; a contradiction of what my conscious mind wants......it has become almost impossible to do. The mental gymnastics in which I used to participate simply don't work anymore. I can choose to drink or not drink, but I can't deceive myself about it at all.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:19 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Boudicca View Post
This is an important point, G. I thought I could lie to myself.....I tried for years to do so. It never really worked, however. Deep down inside, I always knew I was in trouble and what I was doing was wrong for me.

Now that I have equated drinking with violating some moral imperative; a contradiction of what my conscious mind wants......it has become almost impossible to do. The mental gymnastics in which I used to participate simply don't work anymore. I can choose to drink or not drink, but I can't deceive myself about it at all.
I have yet to find anyone who can tell themselves a lie and not know they just told themselves a lie. So, people who say "I will never [something] again" and then do [something] again must have known they didn't mean it from the start. I know that's been the case for my mouthing "never"s in the past.

When I made my Booze Big Plan, I very deliberately removed my ability to even choose to drink or not to drink. Yes, I gave up, turned in, surrendered the capacity to voluntarily drink alcohol. But, far from being a defeat, doing that turned out to be an absolute conquest.
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Old 06-29-2014, 02:50 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
I have yet to find anyone who can tell themselves a lie and not know they just told themselves a lie. So, people who say "I will never [something] again" and then do [something] again must have known they didn't mean it from the start. I know that's been the case for my mouthing "never"s in the past.

When I made my Booze Big Plan, I very deliberately removed my ability to even choose to drink or not to drink. Yes, I gave up, turned in, surrendered the capacity to voluntarily drink alcohol. But, far from being a defeat, doing that turned out to be an absolute conquest.
Indeed, it's the "I will never change my mind" part that is the stickler. I have been reading RR and haven't finished the book yet, but I am thinking quite a bit about the idea that the AV doesn't comprehend the idea of time. It can't understand NEVER, only NOW. I have to understand NEVER. Interesting stuff!
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:36 PM
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I am still trying to digest your replies, but the thrust of it appears to be that I must've known I was telling myself a lie, with 'I will never drink again'. I wasn't. That's the truth of the matter and what is so confounding. I wish it were that simple.
If I commit to such a statement again, how do I know if I am lying?
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
I am still trying to digest your replies, but the thrust of it appears to be that I must've known I was telling myself a lie, with 'I will never drink again'. I wasn't. That's the truth of the matter and what is so confounding. I wish it were that simple.
If I commit to such a statement again, how do I know if I am lying?
IMO, the question itself is irrelevant. JUST COMMIT! Make another Final Decision and start again. In my admittedly limited understanding of AVRT all of this back and forthing is just your Beast manipulating you. It wants you to feel this uncertainty and lack of confidence. It wants to confuse you.

The book states that any thing or thought process that allows you to consider drinking again is your AV and should be ignored. So don't get caught up in the intellectual examination of these questions (although it is interesting.) Just decide.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:26 PM
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ghf, we've been lying to ourselves constantly for a long time. Until you start practicing honesty with yourself, you won't know when you're lying. Keep practicing.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:54 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by glasshalffull View Post
I am still trying to digest your replies, but the thrust of it appears to be that I must've known I was telling myself a lie, with 'I will never drink again'. I wasn't. That's the truth of the matter and what is so confounding. I wish it were that simple.
If I commit to such a statement again, how do I know if I am lying?
I have struggled with this as well. GT (and others) have tried mightily to explain it to me, but to no avail. My observations of my head don't match their observations of their heads. In the end I concluded that I needed more than a BP in my sobriety program. Others don't and I am glad that is working for them, but I need a regimen that works for me. I need to train the beast tamer.

Beating an addiction is a highly personal matter. One size doesn't fit all. Tailor a custom solution that works for you.

You can do this.
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Old 06-30-2014, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
I have struggled with this as well. GT (and others) have tried mightily to explain it to me, but to no avail. My observations of my head don't match their observations of their heads. In the end I concluded that I needed more than a BP in my sobriety program. Others don't and I am glad that is working for them, but I need a regimen that works for me. I need to train the beast tamer. Beating an addiction is a highly personal matter. One size doesn't fit all. Tailor a custom solution that works for you. You can do this.
thank-you so much. I am not alone.
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