FeenixxRising

The subroutine mentioned on the RR website appears to be an effective response to AV chatter:

1) I don't drink/use
2) Any thinking or feeling that supports or suggests drinking or using
3) Go to 1. (that is, I don't drink or use, and I will never change my mind about drinking or using, so there's no reason to even consider #2)

However, I'm wondering if some of you talk to your AV? Or do you just acknowledge it and ignore it? I suppose I'm asking if there are various ways to respond/acknowledge one's AV?

Thanks.

MeredithD1

Rational Recovery from alcoholism, drug addiction, non AA, crank, meth

• From here on, your task is simple.
• All you do is recognize any thinking or feeling that even remotely suggests that you will drink alcohol or use drugs again.
• The "R" is AVRT stands for recognition -- not "removal" or "reasoning against. Just recognize those feelings and thinking, the AV, and they will fall silent. Only when you engage in dialog with the AV, will you have "white knuckles." You owe your Beast no answers, no explanations, no nothing.
• Welcome your Addictive Voice and as a sign of health, and not of disease. Your Beast is a pleasure driven survival drive turned south by a synthetic drug that produces synthetic pleasure greater than your other survival drives, e.g., eating, ,sex, safety, even breathing. The desire to have a ball and feel good all over is no disease.
• It doesn't give up easily, and it is a strong opponent, but it is utterly powerless. When you feel it struggle within you, it is only your old enemy having a hard time with its new master -- you. Your Beast activity will taper off and within a matter of weeks or months abstinence will be effortless. From time to time, your AV will “spike,” and you’ll feel flooded with the desire to drink/use, and plans to drink/use will pop into your head uninvited. You have nothing to fear beause you are now objectively recognizing a desire that once seemed to be your own. What could be more impotent than mere desire?
• AVRT-based recovery is exactly as difficult as you believe it will be, and it will take exactly as long to complete as you choose to make it. You are recovered at the moment you say you are, and others will eventually have to recognize that fact. Eventually. In the meantime, you should build bridges over troubled waters, back into relationships you’ve harmed, and back into hearts you’ve broken.

adams

Acknowledge and respond, same answer every time: no way dude.

Then move on. Sometimes the voice comes back very quickly disguised as another (different) hought. The it's: no fu@cing way dude.

Then move on.

Raider

I think "yea whatever" and move on.

Received

I used to tell it to " Shut the f* ** up" then it was "go to hell" and now I just ignore it or call it "loser" .

At the very least, I've made progress with the potty mouth!

OpioPhobe

Feenixx - I find it most effective when I completely ignore it. The less than I think about it the better. If I respond to my AV at all it seems like I am feeding it. Going a step further and trying to argue with my AV via an internal dialogue is a disaster for me. Even when I come out on top and think that I "won" the argument I was really just wearing myself down mentally. The moment that I perceive it starting to enter my conscious thought I transition my train of thought to something else. That is the toughest part because I have to transition my thoughts without thinking something like "oh no, a craving...you better distract yourself". For me, it has to be a pretty much automatic process or else the craving won't dissipate.

I am also very careful to avoid situations that I think are going to have a high likelihood of generating a craving. In the past I thought it wasn't necessarily a bad thing to put myself in a situation where I knew I would get a craving because I looked at it as a test. It has been much better since I have used avoidance and distraction.

There will be times that I mentally reinforce the decision to quit by reminding myself that I don't use any more. When that happens I don't go into the logic / reasons of why I quit. I just remind myself that I don't use any more, period. However, I will do this mental reinforcement when I am NOT having a craving.

I have no idea if what I am doing follows any of the RR / AVRT guidelines or not. Whatever it is called has been working for me though.

DocSobrietist

Also good is to find every situation where the AV speaks the loudest and consciously and deliberately stay away from that situation for 6-12 months.

fini

I invite it in and dialogue. I do this because I know it is not about drinking per se. When the voice pops up, which is rarely, very rarely, I'm interested to know what's going on
I consider "the voice" part of me, though, which isn't RR whatsoever.
It lets me know when something is going on with me. The "voice" has never popped in out of nowhere, i.e.without being triggered, so to speak, by something else. It's a response. For me.

But when I say I dialogue with it I do NOT mean that I argue or reason with it.

FeenixxRising

After further reading and thought, I believe you've described AVRT pretty well. I don't have cravings or urges per se any longer; however, thoughts do come sometimes. I then identify those thoughts as my AV and move on. I don't reason against the thoughts, I don't fight the thoughts, I don't agonize over the thoughts, I simply recognize those thoughts for what they are. If I respond in any fashion it's to simply thing "I quit drinking, and I will never change my mind".

It's surprising, but once I identify the thoughts as coming from my AV, they dissipate very quickly.

soberlicious

The Beast wants a response. That's the AV's job, to get a dialogue/discussion going with "you". The AV's goal is always the same, and it warrants no response at all. It's all idiotic drivel and should be dismissed.

Greenwood618

I tell it hell yes, about time.

I promise crazy good times, more alcohol, partying, bars, lounges, beer cases, cut-glass tumblers, fresh ice, vinyl records on a cool stereo, congenial company, good looking women than can be imagined.

It responds, "Hell yes!" like Wolfman Jack. "Thank you buddy."

Then I do something else entirely as I don't drink and will never change my mind.

soberlicious

Lol greenwood...bait and switch. So funny...

Stoogy

I don't value my AVs opinion as that leads me down a dark dark road, I simply press the mute button in my head.

OpioPhobe

Haha...this is a perfect description soberlicious.

It was never ending mental masturbation to discuss anything with my AV. I was always waiting for my AV to admit that I (rational me) had a point. My AV's head would have exploded before it admitted that it may not have been a good idea to use.

Stewart888

What AV? )

freshstart57

Coming along nicely there Stewart.

freshstart57

Here is my routine, FeenixRising.

1. I acknowledge mine as fully as I can, I try to recognize the heck out of it. I become aware of it and then aware of my feeling around this awareness. Sadness? Excitement? Increased breathing rate? I do an emotional and physical survey to make a mindful acknowledgment as complete as I can.
2. Next, I accept it. I understand the reasons for feeling as I do, given my past experiences with and around alcohol, and this helps me to accept the existence of these thoughts. I accept what is.
3. Finally, I separate from it. I made this plan, this vow, this solemn promise, to never drink again and never change my mind. This was done by me, by the part of me that reasons, hopes, experiences and dreams. This then means that these thoughts of drinking again, or doubt in my ability to remain abstinent, must come from a different part of me, part that I no longer give control of my life to. They come from a part of me that can do nothing except seek pleasure instinctively, that now will lead me back to hell.

Over all of this, I put a morality caveat. To cognitively consider drinking again is now immoral for me. I consider this in the light of who I used to be, what I used to do, and what has happened to others because of me. And what could happen, because of me, to others if I drank again.

Received

STEWART!!! You snuck up on me..just now saw this post.

Hope you and the Missus are doing good. It's super cool to see you drop by SR for a quick visit.

FeenixxRising

Thanks freshstart, that was well written.

Stewart888

Nice to check in now and then. Everything is going nice and smooth...Love all you guys!!