awuh1

Holli, I liked the article. Good information about expectations and the need for long term approaches. Although it's not specifically addressed, the research also provides an explanation how 'bottoms' are formed via "drug-induced illusions of better-than-expected-ness”.

soberlicious

What assertions made by RR are troubling to you, samseb?

The T in AVRT stands for technique. It's simply a technique.

RR is not a design for living. It does not claim to make anyone a better person. It's focused solely on stopping the consumption of alcohol for good. The life improvement stuff is left to individuals to deal with as they see fit.

gardendiva

This is not true. "One's ethical behavior and moral attitudes are a matter separate from recovery. In RR, we do not become sober in order to become good; we do so because we want some good out of life. There are far better reasons for seeking sobriety than to be a good person." - Jack Trimpey

gardendiva

Also, BEAST is an acronym.

RobbyRobot

BEAST is more a metaphor, yeah?

AVRT is of course an acronym, which is likely what you meant?

freshstart57

The acronym B-E-A-S-T stands for:
Boozing opportunity;
Enemy voice recognition;
Accuse the voice of malice;
Self-control and self-worth reminders;
Treasure your sobriety -- a lot is at stake.

Now, there is more to AVRT than just an acronym and a role-playing game. It is still, nonetheless, a head game that you play with yourself to restructure how you see yourself; how you see drugs and alcohol, and how you see what role drugs and alcohol play in your life.

gardendiva

Thanks freststart! RR/BEAST is not just an acronym and roleplaying, it also helps you change your thinking about self-worth and self-control.

GerandTwine

I may be wrong, but I think that quote is from "The Small Book" which he wrote a few years before discovering Rational Emotive Thinking is not ironclad against drinking some more.

As I see it, in Trimpey's 1996, "Rational Recovery: The New Cure", moral attitude and wanting to be a good person is at least as effective as enlightened self-interest in helping someone decide it's time to quit for good.

Sobriatea

I would say based on what I've learned so far (I've been reading this stuff for days) that AVRT is based on the very proven and scientifically rationally based ideas of Cognitive Behavior Therapy. AVRT trains you to recognize your addictive voice AV so that you are able to separate your true and rational self that knows that they cannot drink from that voice in your head that tells you lies and manipulates you to drink. Every drunk knows that feeling of schizophrenia you get when you are trying to "control" your drinking. Your rational self is telling you to quit--you have obligations tomorrow and this will make you sick, but your AV is screaming go for it, you want it--who cares!
So to sum up, the key is Recognition in the acronym AVRT. Calling it the "beast" helps many especially in the beginning to help separate that very animalistic urge from the rational self.
You don't need to bash AA to use this technique, but many of us have tried those methods and they failed us or maybe we have a problem with the higher power thing etc.
What I like best about this method is it is intuitive to me and it makes feel powerful instead of powerless, it gives me hope that I will never drink again instead of hopelessness that I will forever be an alcoholic with an incurable disease. Drinking is a choice for those who use this method, not an inevitability.
I suppose SMART which is also CBT based is similar, I do not know enough about this technique to judge it but I have seen many here who have found AVRT and SMART to be compatible.

gardendiva

Could you elaborate on this? (The Small Book discusses relapses, so I'm not sure what you mean by "drinking some more.")

Does Trimpey have many different opinions/approaches in The New Cure (compared to those in The Small Book?)

Lenina

very good way to describe it! Thank you!

Love from Lenina

GerandTwine

When I was caught up in the throes of "recoveryism", I, too, couldn't comprehend the simplicity of what "drinking some more" meant. At the same time, back then, I thought I DID have a good grasp of what it meant for someone to suffer a "relapse".

Well, today, I have no idea what it means to suffer a "relapse". But I do know what it means to "drink some more".

It is thanks to AVRT as spelled out in "RR: The New Cure" that I came to my senses after having been suspended in a sort of purgatory of one-day-at-a-time diseased, powerlessness for so many years; suffering under the spell of dependending upon repeatedly gathering together with other "diseased, powerless" people as an end in and unto itself.

I believe "The Small Book" is the ideal historical documentation of how AVRT germinated within what was a valiant attempt to escape the existing addiction treatment fiasco. An attempt that would have failed completely had it not been for the full development of AVRT in "RR: The New Cure." I would not find it useful, or recommend "The Small Book" to anyone who wanted to learn AVRT in order to end an addiction.

Stewart888

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, Mark Twain said. I would add that it is one of the best ways to recognize that beyond the beast is dumb the clothes we wear, the food we eat, the color of our skin, deeply we are one. What is your favorite place to travel to when you want to renew your soul? )

gardendiva

Why?

GerandTwine

Because, following the study of recovery programs (Recoveryography), I only recommend Addictive Voice Recognition Technique.

samseb5351

Questions for Myth of S (from the thread on buddhism)

, can I ask if the concepts of the higher self/monkey brain were ideas that you had before you came to AVRT? Did you recognize some of that "beast voice" before you used the AVR technique or did you kind of discover it in the practice of the technique. Was there any period that you had tried things like AA or other practices to get sober. With the beast voice for you, is it like an audible voice or like quiet determined urge, or maybe something else? Sorry about all the questions as you already probably have seen I do struggle in understanding the function of the AV, so I was hoping to get more undestanding from those who have found success with RR.

Anyone elses input would also be greatly appreciated

MythOfSisyphus

Yeah, I've spent years thinking about the monkey part of us. It's by no means my idea nor original. But it's my shorthand to describe the primate part of us, or the "reptilian brain stem." It reacts to social stimuli often in aggressive ways. One facet of the monkey brain is temper. By nature I have a bad temper and a hair trigger. Note that I don't mean to say violent; I have never been prone to that. To me the monkey part is obsessed with self and self image. It reacts to challenges to self image or social standing aggressively.

Lest I completely sidetrack the discussion I would say that AVRT has been pretty valuable in recognizing monkey activity as well. It's probably akin to beast voice, really. Often times I will get angry at something but instantly realize that the person angering me isn't really attacking me at all. It shows me that the anger I'm feeling isn't rational and shouldn't cloud my response.

samseb5351

I think Im getting what your saying. How we go to fight or flight almost on Autopilot even when there isnt really a threat. We feel attacked and race to defend, emotions get whacked out or blown up. For me and this is where I differ slightly I think or maybe not, tell me what you think. There is an interplay between the parts of our brain that can have us both reacting (shooting from the hip) and rationalizing at the same time, almost like a co conspiracy, for me sometimes the rationalizing which comes from our higher brain (i usually don't use that term but for this discussion I will) is not all that functional or reasonable.
Thanks for the discussion I appreciate it.

I noticed you have just graduated and got a job , thats great news

soberlicious

Sam, I agree. There is that interplay. You can experience it if you are in an IMAX theater. Your body feels like you are up in the air, or falling, but you have literally not left the ground. Parts of our brain tell us to respond to input. It's up to our 'higher brain' to sort whether the responses are indeed necessary, or will serve us well.

In the case of addiction, I think that part of me feels an urgent need for the high. But the other part knows that there is no such thing. That is not a "need".

I too became interested in AVRT because of the parallels to Buddhist thought. This 'being of two minds' about something is certainly not a new concept, and not exclusive to either Buddhism or RR, nor is it exclusive to addiction. It's the feeling of being torn, fragmented, the process of suffering because of this that pushes us toward change. This phenomenon has been described over the ages.

Boudicca

This is exactly how I feel, Myth. I don't really need to analyze it.....I don't really want to. It just works for me, period. The simplicity of the technique is what makes it so effective, IMO.