NDE's
Sober Alcoholic
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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NDE's
My sobriety has taken some interesting twists and turns in recent years. One of the most interesting has been the study of near death experiences. Ya, I know, sort of an odd topic.
I was wondering if anyone on this forum has ever looked into this phenomenon. Recently there was a #1 New York Times best seller by a neurosurgeon who had a Near Death Experience. The book is called “Proof of Heaven”. There have been a number of other similar books in the past 40 years or so.
Just curious what people think of all this and if anyone here is familiar with these reports. I would appreciate some feedback from the folks who frequent the secular forum. I guess my theory is that those of atheist or agnostic persuasion dismiss these accounts without taking a serious look at them, or if not, have their own explanation for the reports. In either case I would like to hear. To be honest, I don't expect much of a response to this post. Nevertheless I would like to hear from anyone inclined to respond. Thanks for your feedback.
I was wondering if anyone on this forum has ever looked into this phenomenon. Recently there was a #1 New York Times best seller by a neurosurgeon who had a Near Death Experience. The book is called “Proof of Heaven”. There have been a number of other similar books in the past 40 years or so.
Just curious what people think of all this and if anyone here is familiar with these reports. I would appreciate some feedback from the folks who frequent the secular forum. I guess my theory is that those of atheist or agnostic persuasion dismiss these accounts without taking a serious look at them, or if not, have their own explanation for the reports. In either case I would like to hear. To be honest, I don't expect much of a response to this post. Nevertheless I would like to hear from anyone inclined to respond. Thanks for your feedback.
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i don't have any particular religion i follow but I have had spiritual experiences myself that are comparable to a NDE. There have been many doctors who believe in this phenomena because of having multiple patients have these
experiences. I know it's hard to believe that someone had these type of visions. I might even be an atheist myslef if I never experienced them just like the doctor in that book. I rather not go into detail about them as people would probably dismiss me as being a mental case or such and they are kind of personal.
experiences. I know it's hard to believe that someone had these type of visions. I might even be an atheist myslef if I never experienced them just like the doctor in that book. I rather not go into detail about them as people would probably dismiss me as being a mental case or such and they are kind of personal.
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Honestly my best answer about an afterlife and any possibility of a this worldly apprehension of such would that it would be just like it was for me before I was born. One huge reason for making this time the best we can.
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I have no doubt these experiences take place. He raised from the dead. A near death experience, or a death experience and coming back to life is an easy task for my God. I have read some books on this. I can't say every book I read was truthful. But I believe with my whole heart, yes, a very possible and a likely experience.
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I've been near death a few times now as both child and man - I was voraciously interested in NDEs as a kid because I couldn't remember anything happening at all...
Later as a adult, I still can't recall anything, so I guess I'm just plumb out of luck
I guess we'll all find out one day
D
Later as a adult, I still can't recall anything, so I guess I'm just plumb out of luck
I guess we'll all find out one day
D
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I started writing several times but kept erasing.
Just did it again. It is a weird topic and, yes, people are conscious of being judged as wacko.
I think most people keep things to themselves.
I believe in the afterlife.
I always tell people at a bedside that the person can hear them so do not say anything that they would not want the person to hear.
I have seen people "wait" for people to come to them and I have seen people wait for a person to leave and then pass on, as if knowing that the person who was at the bedside all along, despite their intentions, was not "able" for it (the actual death of their loved one).
My mother often recounted how her mother commented on the beautiful flowers all around her when she was dying. (1950)
Just did it again. It is a weird topic and, yes, people are conscious of being judged as wacko.
I think most people keep things to themselves.
I believe in the afterlife.
I always tell people at a bedside that the person can hear them so do not say anything that they would not want the person to hear.
I have seen people "wait" for people to come to them and I have seen people wait for a person to leave and then pass on, as if knowing that the person who was at the bedside all along, despite their intentions, was not "able" for it (the actual death of their loved one).
My mother often recounted how her mother commented on the beautiful flowers all around her when she was dying. (1950)
Last edited by Hollyanne; 01-14-2014 at 04:43 PM. Reason: added on
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There's a growing body of research that suggests NDEs are byproducts of the reactions that occur as the various systems of the body shut down. Really it seems that as science progresses more and more of the things we used to think of as "spiritual" or mysterious wind up being neurochemical in nature.
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Originally Posted by MythOfSisyphus 
There's a growing body of research that suggests NDEs are byproducts of the reactions that occur as the various systems of the body shut down. Really it seems that as science progresses more and more of the things we used to think of as "spiritual" or mysterious wind up being neurochemical in nature.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Yeah, I've had near death experiences. Several. These included out of body experiences too. These NDE's occurred while very excessively drunk and stoned. Its all very real to me. I've just now dl the kindle version of the book you mentioned, awuh.
Interesting is an understatement. Thanks for starting the thread. BTW - I'm not surprised Dee has experiences with NDE's.
Interesting is an understatement. Thanks for starting the thread. BTW - I'm not surprised Dee has experiences with NDE's.
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I had a near death experience about 25 years ago while hemmorhaging. It took me a couple weeks to identify it because I had read many many books on the subject and it didn't have all the same elements, but it had enough, and given the situation...
I am a nontheist. I don't believe in a supreme being or an afterlife.
That happened after the NDE, but not necessarily because of it.
I saw a grate of light. I had the chance to return or go ahead and die, and knew if I died everything would be fine. I had a vision of myself laying on my bed, and a vision of my husband with our two kids in the other room.
I have read a lot of books since (as well as been interviewed for a couple). And I guess I look at it like this. All throughout time people have had these experiences, they have been documented back for thousands of years. People have had all manner of experiences and I don't have any reason to believe they weren't real and faithfully reported.
So, I think that different things do happen to people in this earthly life, as well as different things after death. People clearly interact with different manifestations of the divine, or none at all. So why not after death?
Reading about people's experiences and talking to people who've had them, there is no doubt these experiences were as real as anything else they've experienced. I'm sure there are a few fakers but most seem very sincere.
All I know, from my own is that at death I will be absorbed into the Great OKness (that's how I think of it)...it's OK now too, but since during life I have an agenda, it's easy to forget the OK part.
I was a bit disappointed in that neurosurgen's book. He spent SO much time offering proof of how really and completely dead he was...but I felt very little detail of what he experienced, he kept harping on how dead he was, lest we question it. I wanted to scream 'OK already, you were dead, get on with it."
My mother said he is writing a book that talks more of his experience.
I am a nontheist. I don't believe in a supreme being or an afterlife.
That happened after the NDE, but not necessarily because of it.
I saw a grate of light. I had the chance to return or go ahead and die, and knew if I died everything would be fine. I had a vision of myself laying on my bed, and a vision of my husband with our two kids in the other room.
I have read a lot of books since (as well as been interviewed for a couple). And I guess I look at it like this. All throughout time people have had these experiences, they have been documented back for thousands of years. People have had all manner of experiences and I don't have any reason to believe they weren't real and faithfully reported.
So, I think that different things do happen to people in this earthly life, as well as different things after death. People clearly interact with different manifestations of the divine, or none at all. So why not after death?
Reading about people's experiences and talking to people who've had them, there is no doubt these experiences were as real as anything else they've experienced. I'm sure there are a few fakers but most seem very sincere.
All I know, from my own is that at death I will be absorbed into the Great OKness (that's how I think of it)...it's OK now too, but since during life I have an agenda, it's easy to forget the OK part.
I was a bit disappointed in that neurosurgen's book. He spent SO much time offering proof of how really and completely dead he was...but I felt very little detail of what he experienced, he kept harping on how dead he was, lest we question it. I wanted to scream 'OK already, you were dead, get on with it."
My mother said he is writing a book that talks more of his experience.
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Thanks to everyone who has responded. I was thinking after my original post that I could have been more clear about what I was referring to as a near death experience. I am most interested in experiences described by people during a period when they have been declared clinically dead. In addition, the stories of people who can report on events happening around their (then) dead body (often from outside and above while emergency room staff work to revive them). Many of the reports accurately describe these events.
In the past I would not have given these reports a second thought. As an atheist/agnostic these stories did not fit with my view of reality, so of course there could be nothing to them, right?
Then like caboblanco I had a “spiritual experience” and later I heard about the Parnia aware study.
http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=38 At that point there was no stopping my interest.
I'm not posting in an attempt to change anyone’s mind, to proselytize or anything of the sort. I'm interested in what's real. Right now I'm interested in how those in this forum think about these stories. My suspicion is that those here will dismiss these NDE accounts without really taking them seriously (the Parnia study is reasonably good to eventually address this through research, and I believe they are now correcting for a design flaw).
Here is a fascinating account of an NDE under very controlled conditions for those interested. BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! Full version! - YouTube
Thanks so very much everyone for your feedback.
In the past I would not have given these reports a second thought. As an atheist/agnostic these stories did not fit with my view of reality, so of course there could be nothing to them, right?
Then like caboblanco I had a “spiritual experience” and later I heard about the Parnia aware study.
http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=38 At that point there was no stopping my interest.
I'm not posting in an attempt to change anyone’s mind, to proselytize or anything of the sort. I'm interested in what's real. Right now I'm interested in how those in this forum think about these stories. My suspicion is that those here will dismiss these NDE accounts without really taking them seriously (the Parnia study is reasonably good to eventually address this through research, and I believe they are now correcting for a design flaw).
Here is a fascinating account of an NDE under very controlled conditions for those interested. BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! Full version! - YouTube
Thanks so very much everyone for your feedback.
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The reason I believe people claim to have these experiences even though they have no vitals or brain activity is because at that point they aren't in the physical self or the ego self. They are the soul.. the atman..the higher self..whatever you want to call it. it doesn't need the physical body. Now I
know a lot of people don't believe in the soul or spirit. Some people have tried to prove that consciousness never dies and in effect prove an afterlife. Those theories seem to me to be missing a lot. I just know from my
experience that its real to me. all I can say is that i think there is just soo much more to existence then this physical life on earth.
know a lot of people don't believe in the soul or spirit. Some people have tried to prove that consciousness never dies and in effect prove an afterlife. Those theories seem to me to be missing a lot. I just know from my
experience that its real to me. all I can say is that i think there is just soo much more to existence then this physical life on earth.
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Hey thanks for that video about Pam, that was really good. I've been interested in NDEs and OBEs for a long time. I have met a few people that have clinically died and some of them have an experience and some do not. One guy was really upset that he didn't have an experience, he felt ripped off! But another guy said he died from a boxing injury and went to a spiritual place like Pam in the video did. He saw family members and had a very real experience. He just looked me in the eye as he told the story and then said that it was true (meaning - an afterlife is real).
I've read "Proof of Heaven" and seemed a little let down by it. Like the other person on this thread said, he kept proving his death and never really described any real description of "heaven". But, that wasn't the intent of his book. His intent was to get scientists and doctors to realize that their patients are really having these experiences, even without the brain being used.
I guess your main question is what we thing about these stories. I think they are real. I have never personally experienced anything like it, but I believe the people who say they have them. I've met and talked with people that have out of body experiences(OBE), though they usually don't go to a heaven, they just travel through an astral world.
I am a spiritual and a religious person. I do believe in a soul, or spirit, or something that is separate from the body that is me and that can leave the body, temporarily or permanently. I can see how someone that is not spiritual would have a hard time believing people, but there is coming more and more proof of these experiences happening without the brain.
Another book you might try and read is "Heaven is for Real", but that is much more of a spiritually written book.
I've read "Proof of Heaven" and seemed a little let down by it. Like the other person on this thread said, he kept proving his death and never really described any real description of "heaven". But, that wasn't the intent of his book. His intent was to get scientists and doctors to realize that their patients are really having these experiences, even without the brain being used.
I guess your main question is what we thing about these stories. I think they are real. I have never personally experienced anything like it, but I believe the people who say they have them. I've met and talked with people that have out of body experiences(OBE), though they usually don't go to a heaven, they just travel through an astral world.
I am a spiritual and a religious person. I do believe in a soul, or spirit, or something that is separate from the body that is me and that can leave the body, temporarily or permanently. I can see how someone that is not spiritual would have a hard time believing people, but there is coming more and more proof of these experiences happening without the brain.
Another book you might try and read is "Heaven is for Real", but that is much more of a spiritually written book.
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I'm a non-theist as well, and I've never seen much compelling evidence that the soul survives the death of the body. Don't get me wrong, though- I'm not dogmatic about it. If there was some kind of evidence (not proof, just evidence) I'm open to it. Since this is the Secular Connections area I guess I'm just assuming that most folks posting here share my naturalistic worldview. But if that's not the case I'm fine with it.
Again, it certainly could be the case that our "soul" for lack of a better word survives the death of our body. My notion is that what we call the soul is like a movie or piece of computer software running on a "wet machine" that is our brain. From my perspective there's no real mystery as to where our "soul" goes when the machine breaks- it just ceases to be. It's like a light bulb and the light it creates. When the bulb burns out the light doesn't go anywhere! There's just no more light being produced.
Sorry if I'm a wet blanket!
Just kind of got off on a tangent there!
Again, it certainly could be the case that our "soul" for lack of a better word survives the death of our body. My notion is that what we call the soul is like a movie or piece of computer software running on a "wet machine" that is our brain. From my perspective there's no real mystery as to where our "soul" goes when the machine breaks- it just ceases to be. It's like a light bulb and the light it creates. When the bulb burns out the light doesn't go anywhere! There's just no more light being produced.
Sorry if I'm a wet blanket!
Just kind of got off on a tangent there!
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I have a mixed opinion I suppose. There's a very good and well-researched fiction by one of my most favorite authors, Connie Willis. The title "Passage" and is about a woman researching the NDE and memory. Excellent and I highly recommend it. If you aren't familiar with Connie, there's some what appear to be lapses of continuity but I promise it all comes together at the end...LOL. Seriously, it's very worth reading.
I know several people who've had the NDE and they told similar stories. One was a woman at 21 who was in cardiac arrest due to a rampant infection. The other was a 32 year old woman bleeding out in childbirth.
I've had dreams, I guess of being out of body and floating above my bed or just outside the house. I don't know, I typically have very intense dreams. LOL
Interesting discussion!
Love from Lenina
I know several people who've had the NDE and they told similar stories. One was a woman at 21 who was in cardiac arrest due to a rampant infection. The other was a 32 year old woman bleeding out in childbirth.
I've had dreams, I guess of being out of body and floating above my bed or just outside the house. I don't know, I typically have very intense dreams. LOL
Interesting discussion!
Love from Lenina
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