Buddhism

Old 12-16-2013, 09:35 PM
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Buddhism

I've been having the most wicked cravings lately, all day every day. I've come to realize that there is no use fighting the cravings, because the problem is within my own head, I can't very well combat something using a tool that is already fighting against me.

There are a lot of very powerful concepts that I KNOW in theory, but I can't seem to APPLY them.

I've come to accept that my thoughts and mind are not who I am, and that by observing them I set myself apart from them. When observed I am able to step outside of emotions and thoughts and they lose control of me. If I get angry I can observe the anger, I can feel the physical effects of it, but I don't have to be consumed by it.

I want to get high, I want to use again over the holidays, but I know that external sources of pleasure are never sustainable. I can't tell myself this, I can't reason with myself, because my mind is where the problem is. The only thing I can do is stop fighting and become the observer, and in theory the act of observing the craving rather than being it should diminish it. In theory it works, but I'm having a really difficult time with this. I try to pull myself into the present moment, but the addiction just grabs me and pulls me back. It shows me a future where I am going to have fun, it's like being a kid on Christmas eve. I can't sleep, I'm restless, because I know the Christmas tree is stocked with presents. If I was told as a kid to not participate in gift opening, it would have emotionally killed me, and what kid wouldn't be devastated by that. As an adult I'm feeling that same way again towards the drugs. I know what to do about it, but I don't feel proficient enough at this skill to make it happen and be at peace.

I know in the past there have been people here who have done things like this. How did you practice becoming separated from your busy thoughts? I feel like the only problem is that I'm new to this skill and lack experience, I have to build that up somehow and it will grow easier...
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:44 PM
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Meditation.

A regular meditation practice allows that small space to open up naturally between thought and action - just enough to give you the ability to see before reacting. It's not an overnight thing though. You have to keep plugging away, the most important thing is that it is a REGULAR part of your daily activites. Then slowly, bit by bit, that space opens up so that you are able to see the arising thoughts for what they are. You can just observe them and allow them to pass of their own accord. Eventually
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:50 AM
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Truly what you are putting yourself through with this craving is suffering .

Drugs might offer a bourgeois petit paradise , but what they offer holistically is vapid, temporary and transitory in nature , usually leaving us feeling worse and being in more dangerous situations for having abused ourselves with them, physically, mentally and financially .

From where i sit , you appear to have a wrong perception of what drugs will do for you , you are allowing yourself to be deluded by them , focusing only on the short term not the long term consequences of use .

I'd concentrate on that myself rather than worrying about such a triviality as trying to observe your own thoughts from within your thoughts , I say this because it's easy to get distracted into ideas that are of no real use other than honing and sharpening ones intellect and we can eventually drive ourselves into distraction and mental anguish with them and end up in potential using situations .

Taking life threatening drugs or drugs at life threatening levels, dealing with cravings isn't an intellectual pursuit to be done along with the crossword . Be clear on what you are doing here ,

Bestwishes, m
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:26 AM
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Can you attend any Buddhist meditation? That can certainly help you train your thoughts and clear your mind.
I went yesterday and am going tomorrow. Very helpful.

But I agree with Mecanix, a focus on the long term consequences may be a good idea.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:40 AM
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"Buddhism speaks to inviting the discomfort in, sitting with it, instead of battling against. It's a "watch it come, sit with it, watch it go" mentality. The craving is not me...the urge is not me. That battling against is what creates addictional discomfort. The idea was weird and seemed counterintuitive to me at first, but when I realize the urge itself, the craving cannot hurt me and only has the power I give it...well a shift in my mind happened." soberlicious

This has helped me so many times. When I read this I thought WOW...so when I have a craving I head to a Thai temple and they are ALL OVER the place and sit and watch, come, and watch it go.....love this!!!! 1 year 3 months YEAH!
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
I want to get high, I want to use again over the holidays...
I know from my own experience that the seed of desire is often planted in the fertile soil of the decision to get high. If you have subconsciously decided to get high, the craving will be unrelenting. Take that option off the table completely and let your addictive voice wear itself out.

As for fighting the cravings, think about this: The mightiest oak will break before the strongest wind, while the lowly reed bends but never breaks.

The more you fight, the more you engage the cravings.

Be the reed and ride out the storm.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:46 AM
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Try reading the Book The Power of Now by Tolle. It deals with this very exact issue that you wrestle with. Meditation is an answer but I think it might be helpful to understnad how to meditate and stop being enslaved to your own mind.

There are several other books that are helpful, Awareness, Turning your mind into an Ally. And for me yoga is helpful.

At first I started to meditate everyday at noon for 1 miniute. I am up to 5 minutes. This means 5 mindutes of no thoughts no matter what happens. This has become an powerful tool.

Good luck.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:07 AM
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Admiral, I use a form of mindfulness based on Shin Buddhism do deal with my PTSD and the craziness that goes with that. Whenever I start getting cravings or out of balance I start repeating Namu Amida Buddha over and over in my head.

There is nothing mystical or anything about it. It's just that I have to concentrate to keep focused on saying the Nembutsu (Namu Amida Buddha). When I am concentrating on that I am no longer wonder around the bad places in my head. It pulls my attention back to the here and now and not on what I want to do in the future or grieving over what I did in the past.

I have been doing this for about 3 years now. It's funny but sometimes I find myself doing the Nembutsu without even thinking about it. Like the craving started to pop up and the Nembutsu kicked in on its own.

BTW, this practice is good for all sorts of delusional thinking and time of stress. I highly recommend it.

Your friend,
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:53 PM
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I find Buddhism interesting but I don't practice it. On a practical level what many of you are describing is the same practice as AVRT. It's not that difficult to recognize that there are many competing voices/desires existing together in your mind. AVRT teaches you to recognize and isolate the AV/Beast Voice as being in opposition to your Rational mind. For me that was all it took to stop drinking (so far at least- 13+ months since I've drank). YMMV.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:23 PM
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This is a hard one. I've been a buddhist for over 25 years and half of them I drank. So it's safe to assume I'm no expert.

All I know is it all fell together for me this last go around quitting drinking. My mind is quiet. If it's doing what it does...thinking..I don't notice very much. Like breathing or my heart beating. I can notice it if I pay attention but most times I don't. And just like my heart beat and my breath, I can't control my thoughts. They come and go as they please. It's me but it's not me. I know that sounds weird and doesn't make much sense. It's just how I feel.

I think it's when I completely just let go. Letting go of any concept of me having control over pretty much anything. I get a choice here and there but that's about it. Most of life is out of my control. Including how my body operates. I'm just fine with that. My thoughts can do what they want. I don't care anymore. Not in a bad way. Just in it doesn't change me way.

Most of the time now my thoughts just make me laugh. If some thought pops up about having a drink I just step back and don't volly with it. That's what it felt like before. It throwing a ball at me and me catching and throwing back. I don't play anymore. I just watch the ball flop on the floor and roll out of view. It always does eventually and the more I don't catch the less it tries to throw.

I don't live in my head anymore. I just am.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:35 PM
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We have a Buddhist-based recovery program here called Dharma Punx in addition to NA that has given me some great insight on my recovery. I too often have trouble with putting what I have learned into practice, but I know it just takes practice. I haven't dealt with cravings for drugs in a long time but I really want to work on using these principles to overcome other issues like smoking, food, sex, motivation, etc.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:46 AM
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In a way the desire to be proficient at observing your emotions in a detached way is a craving in itself, and craving causes suffering. Let go of the need to be perfect. If you are able to to come in and out of it, like at times you can observe it objectively but at other times your addiction drags you back in, then that shows that your practise is working, just try to pull it back to observing it. Suffering happens, don't let the desire to have a perfect craving free life get in the way of enjoying it x
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:51 AM
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As long as you think of drugs as something valuable you will feel deprived if you cannot partake. You may feel that you aren't getting your share if the treasure. But if you can see what drugs really are... Illusions that hold nothing but further despair and harm for you... the desire for them becomes less. To me that was the treasure I found.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:20 AM
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Well, I ended up using again for about a week straight. I don't know where that came from, or why it was so crippling, but it's over now. As a previous poster said, at some point in time I accepted the idea that I could use again, and once that was on the table the deal was done.

It was the same delusions as always, maybe with a slightly different twist, but that's how it's always going to be, as I conquer certain thoughts, they'll only resurface again in a new form.

I don't really feel regret, and when I do I observe it and allow it to dissolve. I feel like at this point I'm through fighting. I've battled this thing for years, and it hasn't worked, that method is only exhausting. I realize this, but I myself do not feel beaten or exhausted, I simply feel that this is the next step in my journey, to move beyond the internal battle and recognize a new way.

I used to shake my head at one day at a time, but now it's sort of taken on a new meaning. All I have is right now, I can't dwell in the future and hope for something that isn't, and I can't dwell in the past and recycle the same pain over and over again, both are counterproductive.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:02 AM
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A little zen-ish or not but you can not go into the past and hit yourself with a hammer or unhit a hammering. You can plan to never hit yourself with a hammer at any time in the future. But right now the exact present is the only time you havve control over the hammer, you can pick it up or not. Planning to never hit yourself with it in the future is the plan, to never pick it up in any 'now' is the way to get there.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
There are a lot of very powerful concepts that I KNOW in theory, but I can't seem to APPLY them...
Don't pick up. Period. Powerful concept, easily applied. Don't over think it.

Good luck.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
at some point in time I accepted the idea that I could use again, and once that was on the table the deal was done.

It was the same delusions as always, maybe with a slightly different twist, but that's how it's always going to be, as I conquer certain thoughts, they'll only resurface again in a new form.
The deal doesn't have to be done That was an important thing for me to learn. Even if I have made a decision I can unmake it. Whilst it is true that thoughts of using decline the less you use, they will still rear their ugly head from time to time. You can't conquer your thoughts. But you can make a decision to not just blindingly accept whatever pops into your head. Sometimes I have made the decision to drink and then been laughing at myself for being so silly a moment later. Your thoughts don't have to rule you x
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:12 AM
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Thoughts are just thoughts. They have no power beyond how you choose to react to them. For me it was not about conquering my thoughts but detaching from them. That way instead of running on autopilot I now have a choice. A simple tool I used at one time was whenever I felt a craving for alcohol I said in my head "No thank you, I don't drink". By externalizing the craving it now had less power, by saying no thank you I reinforced my desired behavior.
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:54 AM
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This thread is very helpful to me. At some point I began to understand that the fight is the problem. AVRT only makes the "beast" stronger for me. Buddhism tells me that it's just thoughts. Just bull stuff that isn't even worth the acknowledgement of "battle".

The more I practice the little bit of Buddhism that I do get...the less I focus on the crazy battle of I won't drink. The times of sobriety that I have had and have are not about fighting something. They are focused on life. I don't have this down pat yet and may never. I'm thankful that this section has something more to offer than AVRT. I think AVRT is great for those it works for, but its not the path I'm on and it helps to have other things available.

I wish everyone sobriety by any path that gives them this.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:58 PM
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Thanks for all the insight and wisdom. Sobriety is new to me. Buddhism on an intellectual level is not. Practicing mindfulness seems a logical route, and I immediately found myself reading "The Mindfulness Workbook for Addiction" (Williams and Kraft). Very practical.

They liken emotions to a pesky dog nipping at your heals, but the answer, they say, is to embrace the dog. This is much like Kapala practice and the idea of feeding your demons. "Feed Your Demons" is a book on the subject.

The question for me here is whether the demon is alcohol (or other addictions) or the feelings I'm trying to avoid. In other words, is the craving purely physical - a reaction to the body wanting a substance? Or is the craving psychological - a symptom of the desire to avoid certain thoughts or emotions?

I think with drugs like alcohol, heroin, and others, the craving is both physical and psychological. Physical because of tolerance and dependency, and psychological because of the root causes of using to the point of addiction in the first place.

I was involved in a Hakomi duality ritual many years ago. It was a dance exercise wherein participants "became" one concept, and then the opposite; disease and health, sadness and joy... When we got to the anger/acceptance part of the exercise, I scared myself and others. When I "became" and danced anger, I danced violently and I was loud. When I tried to flip it and "become" acceptance, I sobbed because I could not achieve a state of acceptance. To make things worse, I was chastised and ostracized by the group during debriefing. I remained in my sacred space and was no threat to anyone, but they didn't like that I threw myself fully into the anger exercise.

See there I was, a young adult child of an alcoholic who had been taught not to feel, being shunned because I allowed myself to do so - in the context of a ritual designed for this very purpose. I got the sense I was not wanted there and never returned, and I wasn't happy about it at the time, but in retrospect the experience spoke volumes.

I'm still angry. I've never assaulted anyone. I've tried to avoid that demon. I'm now embracing it - feeding it - and hoping this will help relieve my cravings. I think I know why I'm angry, but I don't like the feeling. Love thy enemy, right? Can I love my anger? Learn to be gentle with it and with myself?
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