Arbor

Does anyone use AVRT to moderate or cut back on drinking? Just curious as I've been only abstinent and the book calls for abstaining completely from what I can tell.

freshstart57

From my understanding of AVRT, it incorporates a solemn personal vow of permanent abstinence as an integral part of its awareness, separation and acceptance aspects. Not a good fit for moderation.

If you become more familiar with RR, you will see that using AVRT to moderate consumption is not consistent with its goals and method.

jkb

Arbor8-

Must agree. If anything it was the opposite for me. I now see drinking as a pointless activity in moderation or in large quantities. Something I just recently learned. So, I would say AVRT would be useless in attempts at moderation.

Jess

Arbor

All in good time I suppose. I'm really only seven weeks into this sobriety thing. First time in my life I've ever seriously tried to quit or gave it any thought. Having read most of the book it was a silly question I suppose but I do see folks using techniques from all different sources of addiction help.

deeker

Not certain what you are saying. Are you moderating or abstaining?

jkb

I get what your saying Arbor8. I remember a member on here who said "Well if my goal is to only drink once a year then I could use AVRT for that. (I am badly paraphrasing what was said) Anyway, I think with AVRT... TOTAL and COMPLETE separation for the beast is the only thing that works. Once this is achieved any real desire to continue drinking at all is "beast activity".

I would never have believed this myself until I experienced it a few weeks ago. I was at a party and thought, "I have been sober long enough I am going to have a beer". After a few tiny sips of beer I walked over and threw it away. I saw that this was NOT ME and to be honest it felt strange to even taste it. I realized then that I no longer desired alcohol. Only my beast desires alcohol.

This is the beauty of RR/AVRT.

Jess

Arbor

Thanks Jess. I totally get that. That desire for me has slipped away only recently. I get the "Moving on with Life" feeling. Finally. I feel it will only continue to grow as I remain abstinent.


Deeker. In my original post I stated that I have been only abstinent. The moderation question was asked out of curiosity. Beast curiosity i suppose.

deeker

ahh I see,

Even if I could only drink once a year or a few times a year, I personally believe that once I put any alcohol in my body that it sets off that
insatiable craving for more and more. And then once I am started I can't stop.

It scares me enough that I am not willing to chance it. In one night I could definitely do a lot of damage that could have a lifetime of consequences.

freshstart57

AVRT specifically has no place for 'chancing it'. There is no 'slip', there is no 'relapse'. There is no thought of 'only drinking once a year'. Any of this is antithetical to AVRT.

AVRT has complete, permanent, planned and unconditional abstinence, and this distinguishes it from programs of recovery.

deeker

Not even a option for me , ever!!! Didn't realize I was in secular connections. Have an awesome day Everyone!!

Weaver

You should stick around!

jdooner

Fresh start - you have peaked my interest in AVRT. I am almost 90 days sober using AA but there are parts I struggle with. In fact, I find that I am bending things to fit me more than me bending concepts to fit AA.

Anyhow, I just bought the little book, Rational Recovery and the one other book on Amazon and look forward to reading.

I had knee surgery Wed. I informed my docs that I am an addict and they gave me Oxys anyhow in case of pain. I had an accident yesterday, tripped over a Lego and hurt my knee. Anyhow I chos (consciously) to take a pain pill and felt its effects mind and body. So in AVRT would that have been giving into my beast? I feel like it is and to be honest with myself I should reset my sobriety clock the days don't matter it's for me anyhow and I want to do it honestly with myself.

Separately, I am debating if I reset to use AVRT vs my 12 step (I am on steps 4-5) currently.

Btw - I have never tried and failed. 8/27/13 is my first and only decision to become sober. I have no issues with forever and finality.

Thoughts appreciated

LindaLou

OK, I'm curious. How can I find out more about RR & AVRT?

Received

Hi, LindaLou. You can Google, Rational Recovery Crash Course and it will bring you to the site. I think I actually googled AVRT Crash Course. The Crash Course is just a short power point type presentation. Goes very quickly.

freshstart57

Hi LindaLou, if you are looking for discussion about AVRT, this is a great place, maybe the best free spot on the web to talk about it with others with experience, and with others who are just trying to wrap their heads around the ideas in it.

There are some great threads about AVRT here, so start with the rational recovery crash course on their website, then come back here and see how others have gone about understanding it.

And ask questions and share your experience, because we all benefit when you do!

Received

Oh! Almost forgot. Freshstart has an awesome thread that, imo, is a must read. It's a sticky at the top of our secular connections forum but here is a link to make it easier:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ined-long.html

You will see discussions about AVRT peppered all throughout this forum but here is another one. This is the most current discussion - Part 5:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-5-a.html

freshstart57

Hi JDooner, I don't know if what I will say will help, but this is how it seems to me. If I were in excruciating pain, and I had medication given to me for a doctor for this pain, and I took it according to the doctor's instructions, I would consider myself to be still 'sober', whatever I might think that means. If the first one got me buzzed, I would probably try a half dose next time, if I were still in pain. I don't know about you, but I don't like having that altered state anymore, which is ironic given my history with almost everything.

On the other hand, if I continued to take them, expecting not just pain relief but a 'beastly' buzz, I would start to wonder why I was taking them, and not trying to cut my dose or find an alternative that didn't please my beast so much.

There are members here who deal with chronic pain and their own struggle with pain pills, and any of them would be better equipped than I am to answer your question. And for a further disclaimer, this medication was prescribed to you with full awareness of your history, so if you have concerns of a medical nature, you should take them up with your doctor.

I know that this 'sobriety clock' thing is something that some folks put a lot of stake in, receiving markers and such. I feel that they can be a good thing if all is going well, but I can only imagine how heavy they must be, and how depressing to someone who has gone back on their DoC, so I will leave that call to you as you choose.

The other stuff, I can talk about you in a pm if you like. Best to you, and hope your knee gets better soon. Did the surgeon say to you, 'What's a joint like this doing in a nice guy like you?'