AVRT to end emotional binge eating Part 2
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 14
WElcome Glimer,
I am very new to here too but not to recovery (hate that word). I am a non sugar and caffeine user since yesterday. Typing here with herbal tea by my side. so far to good. Sooooooooo fed up of the crap. this feels much better..........
DD
I am very new to here too but not to recovery (hate that word). I am a non sugar and caffeine user since yesterday. Typing here with herbal tea by my side. so far to good. Sooooooooo fed up of the crap. this feels much better..........
DD
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
I am turning over a new leaf today! No more nonsense! Just do the right thing. I am going with liquids only during the day, then a sensible, normal dinner.
When I got up this morning, I imagined I got a whiff of a food aroma and started salivating! Then I curbed myself from automatically lurching toward the kitchen.
Now I'm out at McDonalds with my dad. Typically I've gotten a #2 breakfast meal. Not today: milk and orange juice (I had a mug of coffee at home, so no need for another one here. I weaned down once before to stave off headaches, and that's what I plan to do now.
I've been up since 3--so that means I've been qa badass for a grand total of three hours so far!
I'm really tired of the nonsense and excuses, though.
When I got up this morning, I imagined I got a whiff of a food aroma and started salivating! Then I curbed myself from automatically lurching toward the kitchen.
Now I'm out at McDonalds with my dad. Typically I've gotten a #2 breakfast meal. Not today: milk and orange juice (I had a mug of coffee at home, so no need for another one here. I weaned down once before to stave off headaches, and that's what I plan to do now.
I've been up since 3--so that means I've been qa badass for a grand total of three hours so far!
I'm really tired of the nonsense and excuses, though.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
Well, I got home from McDonalds. The OJ really hurt my stomach. From 3 am to 4 pm (dinner) seemed like an awfully long time.
So I came home and ate a very small, nutritious meal at 7:30. I reasoned (or did I waffle?) that it is not healthy to fast for a prolonged period of time: it is better to lose the weight at about 1350 calories a day (that way I would lose fat, not muscle).
I had some success with that sort of modest eating a few months ago, using the "Lose It!" calorie counting website. So I've started using it again.
Basically what that means is that when I was tempted by the AV, I couldn't last two minutes!
But, I argue, this is really more sustainable for the long term.
True enough.
So now I have to make sure that nothing derails me from this new, improved Big Plan. I will not overeat.
I must sound like such a wuss. Sorry! I truly am, that I couldn't maintain one day of a fast--but I feel much more comfortable physically and mentally with the counting calorie arrangement.
AVRT input welcome!
So I came home and ate a very small, nutritious meal at 7:30. I reasoned (or did I waffle?) that it is not healthy to fast for a prolonged period of time: it is better to lose the weight at about 1350 calories a day (that way I would lose fat, not muscle).
I had some success with that sort of modest eating a few months ago, using the "Lose It!" calorie counting website. So I've started using it again.
Basically what that means is that when I was tempted by the AV, I couldn't last two minutes!
But, I argue, this is really more sustainable for the long term.
True enough.
So now I have to make sure that nothing derails me from this new, improved Big Plan. I will not overeat.
I must sound like such a wuss. Sorry! I truly am, that I couldn't maintain one day of a fast--but I feel much more comfortable physically and mentally with the counting calorie arrangement.
AVRT input welcome!
Sober since October
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, all)
Being super busy these days - finally going to vacations!
I've just got back from the gym, so I'll respond to your posts a little bit later.
Dig Deep - Great job on making big plan on sugar and caffeine and sticking to it!
Gilmer - Welcome! Glad to see you here!
See you all later)
Being super busy these days - finally going to vacations!
I've just got back from the gym, so I'll respond to your posts a little bit later.
Dig Deep - Great job on making big plan on sugar and caffeine and sticking to it!
Gilmer - Welcome! Glad to see you here!
See you all later)
Sober since October
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Hi, again, all)
So, on Wednesday I am going on vacations. Tunisia for 8 days. Yay! Soaking on the beach, swimming, sleeping, doing nothing and THINKING OF NOTHING!
And, my dear AVRT pals - I'll be celebrating my 1 year sugar free - October 7- on vacations! I am also on 100 days flour-free challenge now) And you know what - I am fine with it! Absolutely. No worries.
Dig Deep - I can completely relate to your fears. To being scared. To feel like I was "doomed" to end up my day with binge - if not today, then tomorrow. I felt powerless, victimized, manipulated.
Just like you I hated by body (being "overweight" 5-6 pounds tops - and by extra 5-6 pounds I meant that my 6-pack is not so ripped).
I felt that I am not worth of any treat but food.
When I made my first Big Plan for binge-eating, I started identifying my Addictive Voice which played a lot of roles, employed different people from my past, used numerous harmful old beliefs, turned my own power against myself.
It "worked" along with its "allies" like sens of guilt, procrastination, feeling worthless, etc.
It's been a long journey for me to cut out all this voices. It's still going on.
I've written a lot about what I "discovered" under this food addiction. Layer by layer.
It's good that you've made your Big Plan for certain food - it will help you to focus on this and apply "no-nonsense" approach. When it comes to something certain there's no room for manouvre - I am not eating this. Period.
I'd suggest to address complex binge-eating issues one piece at a time.
A reasonable nutrition plan is vital to beat binge eating. Like you said when you sticked to healthy regimen without sugar, flour, and other junk food.
But tackling all this at a time may be too stressful.
Maybe, try baby steps with nutrition. Instead of perfect plan with 5-6 meals every 3 hour - 3 good meals a day with couple of healthy snacks.
Most of all - never give up.
I've ended binge-eating/overeating, and so can you.
Gilmer - There's my Big Plan and beginning of the thread (part 1). We've been discussing lots about AVRT there.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ge-eating.html
But let me add a couple of things to this.
I've written about my two major mistakes when applying AVRT to binge eating/overeating in my post on the previous page. My opinion is that it is different from applying AVRT to alcohol/drug/sugar/salty snacks/flour/frogs/snakes/whatever. You can't stop eating - you can't say I am not doing this. Level of appetite, hormones, gaps between meals may differ a lot. It means that you can't eat exact amount of food every time. It's just plainly impossible.
For those who suffer from bulimia/binge-eating/other eating disorder - it's a fine line between normal amount of food, and going into binge.
So, my friend.
I'd say that you certainly didn't "waffle" about breaking your fasting.
If you are anything like me (or a lot of other binge-eaters) food restriction today will hit tomorrow with double force.
Your survival mechanism doesn't get your "brain games".
I managed to beat overeating only when I finally got it, and stopped "cutting calories next day" pattern.
I actually deliberately upped by daily calories consumption to keep my lower brain quiet.
It was essential that it doesn't even "smell" a jeopardy of famine.
And when my "survival Cerberus" relaxed, then I finally managed to re-wire my food-behavioral pattern.
Not the other way around - been there done that lots of times. Didn't work for binge-eating.
Ok, I have lots to say, but it's already late at my part of the world. And I have a super busy day tomorrow.
I'll try to pop in though.
Best wishes to you all!
Keep your chins and Big Plans up!
See you)
So, on Wednesday I am going on vacations. Tunisia for 8 days. Yay! Soaking on the beach, swimming, sleeping, doing nothing and THINKING OF NOTHING!
And, my dear AVRT pals - I'll be celebrating my 1 year sugar free - October 7- on vacations! I am also on 100 days flour-free challenge now) And you know what - I am fine with it! Absolutely. No worries.
Dig Deep - I can completely relate to your fears. To being scared. To feel like I was "doomed" to end up my day with binge - if not today, then tomorrow. I felt powerless, victimized, manipulated.
Just like you I hated by body (being "overweight" 5-6 pounds tops - and by extra 5-6 pounds I meant that my 6-pack is not so ripped).
I felt that I am not worth of any treat but food.
When I made my first Big Plan for binge-eating, I started identifying my Addictive Voice which played a lot of roles, employed different people from my past, used numerous harmful old beliefs, turned my own power against myself.
It "worked" along with its "allies" like sens of guilt, procrastination, feeling worthless, etc.
It's been a long journey for me to cut out all this voices. It's still going on.
I've written a lot about what I "discovered" under this food addiction. Layer by layer.
It's good that you've made your Big Plan for certain food - it will help you to focus on this and apply "no-nonsense" approach. When it comes to something certain there's no room for manouvre - I am not eating this. Period.
I'd suggest to address complex binge-eating issues one piece at a time.
A reasonable nutrition plan is vital to beat binge eating. Like you said when you sticked to healthy regimen without sugar, flour, and other junk food.
But tackling all this at a time may be too stressful.
Maybe, try baby steps with nutrition. Instead of perfect plan with 5-6 meals every 3 hour - 3 good meals a day with couple of healthy snacks.
Most of all - never give up.
I've ended binge-eating/overeating, and so can you.
Gilmer - There's my Big Plan and beginning of the thread (part 1). We've been discussing lots about AVRT there.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ge-eating.html
But let me add a couple of things to this.
I've written about my two major mistakes when applying AVRT to binge eating/overeating in my post on the previous page. My opinion is that it is different from applying AVRT to alcohol/drug/sugar/salty snacks/flour/frogs/snakes/whatever. You can't stop eating - you can't say I am not doing this. Level of appetite, hormones, gaps between meals may differ a lot. It means that you can't eat exact amount of food every time. It's just plainly impossible.
For those who suffer from bulimia/binge-eating/other eating disorder - it's a fine line between normal amount of food, and going into binge.
So, my friend.
I'd say that you certainly didn't "waffle" about breaking your fasting.
If you are anything like me (or a lot of other binge-eaters) food restriction today will hit tomorrow with double force.
Your survival mechanism doesn't get your "brain games".
I managed to beat overeating only when I finally got it, and stopped "cutting calories next day" pattern.
I actually deliberately upped by daily calories consumption to keep my lower brain quiet.
It was essential that it doesn't even "smell" a jeopardy of famine.
And when my "survival Cerberus" relaxed, then I finally managed to re-wire my food-behavioral pattern.
Not the other way around - been there done that lots of times. Didn't work for binge-eating.
Ok, I have lots to say, but it's already late at my part of the world. And I have a super busy day tomorrow.
I'll try to pop in though.
Best wishes to you all!
Keep your chins and Big Plans up!
See you)
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 14
Hi everyone.
I totally agree with MB about the lower brain or fasting setting us up for a binge. when i went to 12 step, i used to feel like a 'failed anorexic' cos i just could not exert the control they seemed to have. How off is my thinking but its the truth. now I 100% realise that we need to keeep our blood sugars balanced by eating regularly and the right foods for us.
Anyway i made it through yesterday. sitting at my computer and its almost 9am. Kids are gone to school and I am drinking my green tea. my head is aching and on the cycle home from the school I was thinking about how hard it is having kids and how ill-equipped i am and how depressed and down I felt. If i had known how hard it was, would i have them again, not to mention the husband. I have a lot of anxiety that i feel inside and always have had. I start getting really depressed about life then, what is it all about and whats the point. Would you be better to just be medicated? And on my brain goes. I wasn't thinking about using sugar or caffeine but it struck me that the voice could be my BEAST dressed up in a different outfit.
The end result of hours of that kind of thinking could well be, sure whats the point, I'll have a latte and a doughnut and off we go again.........
I'm delighted that i caught my thinking and can now make a conscious decision about it. i am choosing to not pay too much atttention to my negative thoughts today. It is probably the sugar and caffeine withdrawal on an emotional and cellular level. i'm sure my body is feeling a bit confused and missing smth.
I do feel good about the decisions I've made in my big plan.
Have a great day.
DD
I totally agree with MB about the lower brain or fasting setting us up for a binge. when i went to 12 step, i used to feel like a 'failed anorexic' cos i just could not exert the control they seemed to have. How off is my thinking but its the truth. now I 100% realise that we need to keeep our blood sugars balanced by eating regularly and the right foods for us.
Anyway i made it through yesterday. sitting at my computer and its almost 9am. Kids are gone to school and I am drinking my green tea. my head is aching and on the cycle home from the school I was thinking about how hard it is having kids and how ill-equipped i am and how depressed and down I felt. If i had known how hard it was, would i have them again, not to mention the husband. I have a lot of anxiety that i feel inside and always have had. I start getting really depressed about life then, what is it all about and whats the point. Would you be better to just be medicated? And on my brain goes. I wasn't thinking about using sugar or caffeine but it struck me that the voice could be my BEAST dressed up in a different outfit.
The end result of hours of that kind of thinking could well be, sure whats the point, I'll have a latte and a doughnut and off we go again.........
I'm delighted that i caught my thinking and can now make a conscious decision about it. i am choosing to not pay too much atttention to my negative thoughts today. It is probably the sugar and caffeine withdrawal on an emotional and cellular level. i'm sure my body is feeling a bit confused and missing smth.
I do feel good about the decisions I've made in my big plan.
Have a great day.
DD
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
Digdeep, I've raised 5 kids and my youngest is now 16. I feel your pain! When the first three were young, I wanted to throw myself off a cliff! And marriage was no help!
I just want to assure you that LIFE GETS SO MUCH BETTER when the kids get independent! The school years are the worst--constantly hounding them to do homework is like shoving the proverbial camel through the eye of a needle!
Now we have a great relationship with our kids. And, even though time seems to drag from one minute to the next when they are young, before you know it you'll be 50 and things will be much, much better. It's a cliche, but you really will wonder where the time has gone!
You sound like you're ready to take the bull by the horns.
Me, too. I don't want to accompany the new leaf with a bunch of fanfare this time--too many failures and the AV laughing in my face. i want to just humbly choose the right path.
Yesterday i did well. I stuck to standard meals at standard mealtimes, except for one banana as a snack about 3:30 pm, when I was feeling really beat and it was time to cook dinner.
I did something wild and adventurous solely to please my husband, and it turned out to be a great experience. He found an online recipe for authentic Chicken Tandoori made from scratch.
I went to the local Indian spice shop and the salesclerk helped me pick out all the ingredients. I picked apart the cardamom pods and roasted the all of the spices in a skillet; then I ground them in a mortar and pestle (although coriander is very tough). Then I made the marinade sauce with yogurt and let the chicken sit in it for a couple of hours. Then i broiled it for ten minutes; then I baked it.
Absolutely delicious! Smelled like heaven! Far better than our local restaurant--they must use a mix! When I woke up today, the house still smelled of the delicious spices!
I wanted to crash and die when I dragged myself home from the shopping; however, eating that banana gave me the energy boost I needed to plunge into the new frontier of Indian cooking. Dinner was at 8; i ended up eating two chicken thighs, two chicken drumsticks, and 1 1/2 cups of green beans.
Today i am off to a good start, too. Yesterday i had to tell myself, "no." a lot. Not "NO, DAMMIT!!!"--just a simple "no." I moved on in my mind and didn't argue with the AV.
I am trying to use what we already have in the pantry for my meals. That involves cooking, which involves work, which involves personal investment of time and effort.
Indulging myself in snacks from 7-Eleven as I did promotes laziness and a sense of entitlement! that may seem far-fetched, but it's true! i feel more honest and wholesome today than i have in awhile.
(Let's just see how long that lasts. Two weeks?)
Shut up, AV.
I just want to assure you that LIFE GETS SO MUCH BETTER when the kids get independent! The school years are the worst--constantly hounding them to do homework is like shoving the proverbial camel through the eye of a needle!
Now we have a great relationship with our kids. And, even though time seems to drag from one minute to the next when they are young, before you know it you'll be 50 and things will be much, much better. It's a cliche, but you really will wonder where the time has gone!
You sound like you're ready to take the bull by the horns.
Me, too. I don't want to accompany the new leaf with a bunch of fanfare this time--too many failures and the AV laughing in my face. i want to just humbly choose the right path.
Yesterday i did well. I stuck to standard meals at standard mealtimes, except for one banana as a snack about 3:30 pm, when I was feeling really beat and it was time to cook dinner.
I did something wild and adventurous solely to please my husband, and it turned out to be a great experience. He found an online recipe for authentic Chicken Tandoori made from scratch.
I went to the local Indian spice shop and the salesclerk helped me pick out all the ingredients. I picked apart the cardamom pods and roasted the all of the spices in a skillet; then I ground them in a mortar and pestle (although coriander is very tough). Then I made the marinade sauce with yogurt and let the chicken sit in it for a couple of hours. Then i broiled it for ten minutes; then I baked it.
Absolutely delicious! Smelled like heaven! Far better than our local restaurant--they must use a mix!
When I woke up today, the house still smelled of the delicious spices!I wanted to crash and die when I dragged myself home from the shopping; however, eating that banana gave me the energy boost I needed to plunge into the new frontier of Indian cooking. Dinner was at 8; i ended up eating two chicken thighs, two chicken drumsticks, and 1 1/2 cups of green beans.
Today i am off to a good start, too. Yesterday i had to tell myself, "no." a lot. Not "NO, DAMMIT!!!"--just a simple "no." I moved on in my mind and didn't argue with the AV.
I am trying to use what we already have in the pantry for my meals. That involves cooking, which involves work, which involves personal investment of time and effort.
Indulging myself in snacks from 7-Eleven as I did promotes laziness and a sense of entitlement! that may seem far-fetched, but it's true! i feel more honest and wholesome today than i have in awhile.
(Let's just see how long that lasts. Two weeks?)
Shut up, AV.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
Had a modest day yesterday, but ended up with an extra meal, because I ate breakfast at 5 am, then realized I had my lunch appointment at 1:30. i had some chow mein at 10:30. I was all set after lunch to go without ( generally easier for me in the afternoon and evening)--but then my husband called and invited me to an impromptu date night, so i ate dinner in a restaurant.
But I did not overeat portion-wise, and I have been good at resisting all sugar except bananas (natural sugar I'm fine with).
Today I'm back on track. I am pleased that my lack of picture-perfection yesterday did not lead to the deflated balloon failure free-for-all as it often has in the past.
But I did not overeat portion-wise, and I have been good at resisting all sugar except bananas (natural sugar I'm fine with).
Today I'm back on track. I am pleased that my lack of picture-perfection yesterday did not lead to the deflated balloon failure free-for-all as it often has in the past.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
MB, i don't know if you are able to check in or not, but have a terrific vacation! We are eager to hear your adventures if you are able to check in. Hope your day of travel was pleasant and snag-free!
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
I really messed up yesterday evening and today all day. The AV didn't even have to be persistent--I just up and derailed and was completely gone. I even ate sugar today!
Back fighting now. Tomorrow I will be very busy--too busy to waste time. I will not overeat.
Back fighting now. Tomorrow I will be very busy--too busy to waste time. I will not overeat.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
The Big Plan of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique is an extremely serious, deliberate and thought out pledge or oath.
Imagine what a married couple might recall as they think back 50 years on their golden wedding anniversary. They made a commitment to monogamy.
The function of that pledge is identical to the Big Plan for food in that they are both about bodily appetite control and the permanent removal of following through on an easily recognizable pleasurable stimulus.
It makes a lot of sense to very intelligently evaluate what will happen by making a Big Plan before making it. But, as I understand AVRT, it is pure Addictive Voice for a person to claim to have made a Big Plan and repeatedly behave as if one didn't make it.
Imagine what a married couple might recall as they think back 50 years on their golden wedding anniversary. They made a commitment to monogamy.
The function of that pledge is identical to the Big Plan for food in that they are both about bodily appetite control and the permanent removal of following through on an easily recognizable pleasurable stimulus.
It makes a lot of sense to very intelligently evaluate what will happen by making a Big Plan before making it. But, as I understand AVRT, it is pure Addictive Voice for a person to claim to have made a Big Plan and repeatedly behave as if one didn't make it.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
I have been frivolous. I know that the decision I want to make is the right one, so I keep determining to make it again and again. My will has not yet matched the level of my mind, though. My mind says, it's a no-brainer. Just do it. The will says, "You've got to take action once and for all--put your foot down--these shorts are getting too tight for you."
I want to be serious with not overeating as i was with not drinking--but I'm just not there, I can see.
I believe I will be in time. It took me six or seven serious attempts and the subsequent waffling to follow through on sobriety. With the Big Plan in view, I believe I eventually will adhere. I just have to believe in healthy living and want it enough.
I want to be serious with not overeating as i was with not drinking--but I'm just not there, I can see.
I believe I will be in time. It took me six or seven serious attempts and the subsequent waffling to follow through on sobriety. With the Big Plan in view, I believe I eventually will adhere. I just have to believe in healthy living and want it enough.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,536
Hey all. I never really thought about breaking things up into segments like "not eating salty snacks" or "stopping dairy" and things like that. Breaking up a lifestyle change into manageable segments seems much for doable. I'm mostly a very healthful eater but have some snags here and there, and I can always tell when I eat outside of my diet. I will choose a focus and post it for accountability. Thanks for the idea.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,536
So. . . after a few days of thinking about what to change in my eating, I've decided that I need to keep a food diary. It isn't so much about what I eat which is mostly GREAT, it is about mindless eating. IF I have to write it down, then I think twice. In the two days I kept a food journal, my mindless eating has disappeared. Does keeping a food journal fit into AVRT??? I don't think so. But it is a huge help to me.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Altoids 
Does keeping a food journal fit into AVRT??? I don't think so. But it is a huge help to me.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
TAPS puts a name to what I have been aiming for.
My TIME = standard mealtimes (for me, 6, 11, and 4, plus a small fatty snack at 8 to accompany one of my medicines). My AMOUNT = honestly modest portions (I know what they are). My PLACE = my kitchen. My SUBSTANCE = no diet sodas, caffeine, or processed sugar.
I am still working up mentally to take the actual plunge.
My TIME = standard mealtimes (for me, 6, 11, and 4, plus a small fatty snack at 8 to accompany one of my medicines). My AMOUNT = honestly modest portions (I know what they are). My PLACE = my kitchen. My SUBSTANCE = no diet sodas, caffeine, or processed sugar.
I am still working up mentally to take the actual plunge.
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