Blogs


Notices

How did my AV come to be?

Old 08-01-2013, 11:24 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
"I don't really understand what the terms 'dis-ease' or 'stinking thinking' mean in the context of this forum though. They seem to be nothing more than AV to me.."

Because of my disease of alcoholism at times I'm in a dis-easey state, thinking and perhaps acting the way I did when drinking, like financially insecure even though nothing has changed since yesterday or last week. Identify? Add a few of that kind of thinking together and I can get stinking thinking and need to step back and say Easy Does It. Again I don't care what any of us does to get/stay sober, I've chosen mine with millions of others and many have been sober for many years. I just have a lot of difficulty with misinformation from so many that don't have a clue that post on the internet. BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
Old 08-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Self recovered Self discovered
 
freshstart57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,147
I just have a lot of difficulty with misinformation from so many that don't have a clue that post on the internet.
This is another thing we have in common. Please take some comfort from the fact that as far as secular sobriety methods are concerned, the misinformation in this thread does not come from me.
freshstart57 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to freshstart57 For This Useful Post:
DoubleBarrel (08-04-2013), FoundmySelf (08-02-2013)
Old 08-01-2013, 01:53 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
jkb
Member
 
jkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 822
Blog Entries: 70
I am just confused as to who is posting misinformation on the internet. This is only my opinion but, how can one be misinformed that a recovery method works for them?

In RR I see myself as empowered to make a decision as to weather or not I continue to consume alcohol. There are certain techniques that help me in this. I DO NOT find it helpful to see myself as being "spiritually deficient" or "diseased". That would not work for me.

However, if I say "Yay my beast died. I am cured and will never drink again"... that is not misinformation. That is my perception and therefore it is truly what worked for me.

I may feel that it is unfair to label people as "diseased" which would also be my opinion. If that were my opinion I am not going to hop over to the twelve step area and say "You don't have a disease" because that would be rude and opinionated of me. If belief that it is a disease is helping someone to stay sober... ok. Maybe they do have a disease or dis-ease? I don't know that about them.

Hopefully this makes sense. In other words perception is reality thus it is not "misinformation". It is the thinking that helped them.

Also no one said that AV only exists when drinking... At least not that I saw. Maybe I missed it and to be honest I don't have the time to reread the whole thread to see if I did. However, that is not a belief of RR.
jkb is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to jkb For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-01-2013), FoundmySelf (08-02-2013), freshstart57 (08-01-2013), Jaycee4 (08-02-2013), raku (08-06-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-01-2013), Received (08-01-2013)
Old 08-01-2013, 04:07 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Ok it looks like you got it all together so fast. Alcoholism is a disease if not insurance companies will want you to explain this to the medical community and stop paying for treatments. Dis-ease is something I have trying to make sense of many things seen on the internet again by people who don't have a clue and mimic what they hear incorrectly.
"However, if I say

"Yay my beast died. I am cured and will never drink again"... that is not misinformation." You may want it that way but it's BS to me!

"I am just confused as to who is posting misinformation on the internet. This is only my opinion but, how can one be misinformed that a recovery method works for them?"

OMG are you Al Gore and believe all the internet is so pure because he invented it? Can I say it's my opinion that trekking across Death Valley is OK without water during the summer make it correct. If it works for you fine, I wish you luck for the long haul, lets say beyond 5 years. For me tried and proven methods gets my vote not opinions by someone unknown with little experience to quote. As stated You'll not change my opinion 1 iota. I am concerned with newcomers looking for outs and wiggle room when they are so fragile and wanting the easiest softest way to avoid the pain they are going through.
BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
Old 08-01-2013, 04:18 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
This is another thing we have in common. Please take some comfort from the fact that as far as secular sobriety methods are concerned, the misinformation in this thread does not come from me.
I didn't want to imply it did. The statement just is a generalization and not pointed at SR which has many excellent posts and I'm sure helps many. A thing that is potentially bad, and I don't see a way around it is so many relapse posts.
I feel it gives newcomers a feeling that if I slip I'll just come back and start again without realizing the quick sand they are so close to. I've seen too many suicides for my lifetime never mind the 70,000, yes thousand, alcoholic horrible deaths per year. My wife is a Hospice nurse and the description is not a nice topic at the dinner table. BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
Old 08-01-2013, 04:27 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,450
Originally Posted by visch1 View Post
If it works for you fine, I wish you luck for the long haul, lets say beyond 5 years. For me tried and proven methods gets my vote not opinions by someone unknown with little experience to quote. As stated You'll not change my opinion 1 iota.
People successfully used my method for centuries before anyone heard of 12 steps. I mean, it's not as if no one ever beat addiction prior to 1935.

But honestly, I don't want to change your opinion. I'm not the least bit threatened or troubled by your path. I hope you will overcome your "dis-ease" with mine... and perhaps find some peace of mind in the knowledge that there are many ways out of addiction, and always have been.
ReadyAndAble is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ReadyAndAble For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-01-2013), FoundmySelf (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-01-2013), Weasel1966 (08-02-2013)
Old 08-01-2013, 05:43 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
my drinking (and overdrinking ) is an addiction, much like cigarettes....

it's not a disease for me and too many people use it as an "excuse"...oh poor me, I have a big disease of pouring booze down my throat.

I tell myself that I am not a masochist, I don't enjoy doing things that make me sick, look like crap and slowly kill me. although it took a long time to get to that realization.

but that is really all it is....a liquid, a beverage, not anything more, I put booze in it's place, it's just a beverage

....if I drink it, I feel awful, look awful and it exacerbates depression. I don't drink and I have more control over my life.

there are wonderful tasty beverages that are great and give me health.

that alone is a reason to celebrate....control what you can and live well.
Fandy is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Fandy For This Useful Post:
FoundmySelf (08-02-2013), freshstart57 (08-01-2013), Jaycee4 (08-02-2013), jkb (08-02-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-01-2013), Weasel1966 (08-02-2013)
Old 08-01-2013, 06:34 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Well for me it's a disease, play all you want to with "fancy wording" and rationalization. If I'm not on guard It'll drag me down to where I was when I stopped drinking almost 35 years ago in a heartbeat! Perhaps others are more sophisticated, intelligent in their minds and have control issues I don't want or need to prove that the medical and insurance are wrong about alcoholism being a disease. If people want to comfort themselves in the belief they don't have a disease so be it. Being an alky I know it's a soft easy way out in many cases of not being honest with our selves, I admit I wasn't until I accepted things I didn't want to hear. I also became very interested in the reasons I drank which seems to me to be something overlooked often. Sort of not making the same mistakes over again. BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to visch1 For This Useful Post:
ReadyAndAble (08-01-2013)
Old 08-01-2013, 08:05 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,450
Originally Posted by visch1 View Post
If people want to comfort themselves in the belief they don't have a disease so be it.
I'm posting in this section because belief isn't really my strong suit, lol...

I'm glad you've found something that's working for you, visch, and appreciate that you want others to do well.
ReadyAndAble is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ReadyAndAble For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-02-2013), jkb (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013), Weasel1966 (08-02-2013)
Old 08-01-2013, 09:48 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
Member
 
Deckard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 440
In terms of psychology, are people generally similar to one another, or individually distinct?

I think there is a huge spectrum of different personality types, personal experiences, religious beliefs, underlying motivations, family history, etc. etc.

Given that, it would genuinely astonish me if one and only one recovery method was valid.

Just my $0.02....
Deckard is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Deckard For This Useful Post:
Carlotta (08-02-2013), Fandy (08-02-2013), NoraCharles (08-01-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 03:14 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,414
Blog Entries: 13
My Addictive Voice came to be because I have a human brain in a biologically driven body and I determined my repeatedly getting drunk had to end.

I PLAN(ed) that I will never drink again...GOD LAUGHS with me, not at me, because we both know I am using three of God's greatest gifts: knowing right from wrong, applying free will, and basing it all on love.
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-02-2013), FoundmySelf (08-02-2013), freshstart57 (08-02-2013), Weasel1966 (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 03:25 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
A simple guy making his way
Thread Starter
 
Weasel1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,862
Blog Entries: 39
I did not start this thread to debate if alcoholism is a dis-ease. It was started out of observations about how far my internal struggle has come and why it came to be.

Please change the tone and get back to the original post or go start your own thread.
Weasel1966 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Weasel1966 For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-02-2013), jkb (08-02-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 03:28 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
A simple guy making his way
Thread Starter
 
Weasel1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,862
Blog Entries: 39
As always there are such great minds here in this section.

GT.... I love what you said.

RR... RAA... Fresh... Fandy... Jkb... Carlotta.... Thanks for your contributions.

Hope all are well today. I have a big workday ahead so let me get to it.

Cheers!

Ken
Weasel1966 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Weasel1966 For This Useful Post:
Carlotta (08-02-2013), Fandy (08-02-2013), GerandTwine (08-02-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 03:34 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
In terms of psychology, are people generally similar to one another, or individually distinct?

I think there is a huge spectrum of different personality types, personal experiences, religious beliefs, underlying motivations, family history, etc. etc.

Given that, it would genuinely astonish me if one and only one recovery method was valid.

Just my $0.02....
Good point and I agree. Now show me the ones with a good track record that's stood up for years. The medical with all it's research etc? The psychology community is as bad. The only one I know is the double a and to me it is far from a star for the long term but compared to others does well. As stated above there is such a wide spectrum of personalities involved it seems alcohol wins as only about 5% of problem drinkers seek sobriety out of the problems 17% have with it. One thing overlooked above is the amount of brain damage alcoholics have acquired due to drinking. Believe me it's far higher than a little. When you take a very sharp lawyer who has consumed far too much over the years reduced to drinking Listerine and thinking it's not alcohol and walking around wearing an old overcoat, living in an abandoned car with a shoe and a sneaker on and with wine sores it demonstrates we're not dealing with a health food. I get upset with people spreading info on the internet that probably caused people to drink again and all the damage that can cause and it happens too often from probably good intentioned folks.. Even if we reject certain words does not mean we are free of the disease and recovered. To me recovered means the ailment is gone but unfortunately alcoholism is not removed from me so awareness of this beast, shite fairy to me is life long awareness. So far it's worked one day at a time. BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
Old 08-02-2013, 04:49 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
That bell or bike person
 
mecanix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london
Posts: 4,978
Blog Entries: 12
They say the road to hell is paved with other peoples good intentions .

I've never sought other peoples opinion on my drinking, i don't ask for others opinion on my solution, all i ever wanted to know was how they delt with it .

Bestwishes, m
mecanix is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mecanix For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-02-2013), jkb (08-02-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013), Weasel1966 (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 05:05 AM
  # 36 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
I did not start this thread to debate if alcoholism is a dis-ease. It was started out of observations about how far my internal struggle has come and why it came to be.

Please change the tone and get back to the original post or go start your own thread.
Weasey! (said like George Jefferson would say it).
you ARE doing fine! i do know from your posts how far you come in repairing yourself.
big hugs from me!
you are enjoying the summer sober!
Fandy is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fandy For This Useful Post:
jkb (08-02-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-02-2013), Weasel1966 (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 07:33 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
jkb
Member
 
jkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 822
Blog Entries: 70
Originally Posted by visch1 View Post
Ok it looks like you got it all together so fast. Alcoholism is a disease if not insurance companies will want you to explain this to the medical community and stop paying for treatments. Dis-ease is something I have trying to make sense of many things seen on the internet again by people who don't have a clue and mimic what they hear incorrectly.
"However, if I say

"Yay my beast died. I am cured and will never drink again"... that is not misinformation." You may want it that way but it's BS to me!

"I am just confused as to who is posting misinformation on the internet. This is only my opinion but, how can one be misinformed that a recovery method works for them?"

OMG are you Al Gore and believe all the internet is so pure because he invented it? Can I say it's my opinion that trekking across Death Valley is OK without water during the summer make it correct. If it works for you fine, I wish you luck for the long haul, lets say beyond 5 years. For me tried and proven methods gets my vote not opinions by someone unknown with little experience to quote. As stated You'll not change my opinion 1 iota. I am concerned with newcomers looking for outs and wiggle room when they are so fragile and wanting the easiest softest way to avoid the pain they are going through.
BE WELL
You are personally attacking my recovery method... or the fact that I am recovered and do not feel the need to do it your way. The only "proven way" yet the success of all methods including yours is very low.

My method on the other hand, is perfect for me. It is definitely not easier or softer to say "I will never drink again and I will not change my mind". It would be easier for me to say:

"...oh poor me, I have a big disease of pouring booze down my throat.-Quote Fandy


So at this point I feel your logic is quite twisted and I am choosing not to be spoken down to anymore because I only have 5 months of sobriety. I have attended other programs and have not had the success I have had thus far with this one. Self-recovery/RR is working for me.

As to the rest... I do not feel a need to prove anything to you but, there are others on here with many years of sobriety using this method.

BE WELL,
Jess
jkb is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to jkb For This Useful Post:
Fandy (08-02-2013), FoundmySelf (08-02-2013), freshstart57 (08-02-2013), qwerrt (08-02-2013), ReadyAndAble (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013)
Old 08-02-2013, 09:30 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by mecanix View Post
They say the road to hell is paved with other peoples good intentions .

I've never sought other peoples opinion on my drinking, i don't ask for others opinion on my solution, all i ever wanted to know was how they delt with it .

Bestwishes, m
Best wishes on you. When I was totally wrapped up in self centeredness I had that outlook until I was so sick and tire of being sick and tired from my alcohol consumption I gratefully opened up and gladly accepted help from others. It is for me surrendering to a power, alcohol, and admitting defeat so I could recover from the toxic effects. I don't know how much brain damage I caused myself But see the effects around me in daily life and the sad thing people will not acknowledge our/their negative side results and play the act as if game. When we see the end results of alcoholism we see the road of hell. I hope I can help even one. BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:44 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by jkb View Post
You are personally attacking my recovery method... or the fact that I am recovered and do not feel the need to do it your way. The only "proven way" yet the success of all methods including yours is very low.

My method on the other hand, is perfect for me. It is definitely not easier or softer to say "I will never drink again and I will not change my mind". It would be easier for me to say:

"...oh poor me, I have a big disease of pouring booze down my throat.-Quote Fandy


So at this point I feel your logic is quite twisted and I am choosing not to be spoken down to anymore because I only have 5 months of sobriety. I have attended other programs and have not had the success I have had thus far with this one. Self-recovery/RR is working for me.

OK you WIN. Your sobriety is your sobriety and all it entails. I still dislike ALL the internet misinformation on something that is so life affecting is so easily taken as the proven truth. I was not pointing a finger. Statements like being a recovered alcoholic is so off base I cringe. Then perhaps not all who protest are not alcoholics. BE WELL

As to the rest... I do not feel a need to prove anything to you but, there are others on here with many years of sobriety using this method.

BE WELL,
Jess
OK you WIN. Your sobriety is your sobriety and all it entails. I still dislike ALL the internet misinformation on something that is so life affecting is so easily taken as the proven truth. I was not pointing a finger. Statements like being a recovered alcoholic is so off base I cringe. Then perhaps not all who protest are not alcoholics. BE WELL
visch1 is offline  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:37 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,450
Originally Posted by visch1 View Post
I hope I can help even one.
Then why aren't you trying to help a newcomer, instead of coming over here to tell a bunch of happy sober people that we're doing it all wrong? Wouldn't you rather celebrate all that Ken, Fandy, Jess, and the rest of the gang here are doing right?

Which, by the way, I think is one of the greatest things a newcomer can see. I had more than enough bitterness, judgment, doom and gloom when I was drinking. When I arrived here, I was looking for insight and inspiration. A little warmth and humility went a long way, too.

Maybe if you go back and read Ken's original post, you'll see that's exactly what he offered.
ReadyAndAble is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to ReadyAndAble For This Useful Post:
Deckard (08-02-2013), Fandy (08-02-2013), FoundmySelf (08-02-2013), freshstart57 (08-02-2013), Jaycee4 (08-02-2013), jkb (08-02-2013), Nonsensical (11-18-2013), Received (08-02-2013), RobbyRobot (08-02-2013)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:21 AM.