What on earth am I posting this for...
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Join Date: May 2012
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idea of not wanting it any more, which fini and legna have both raised here?
i personally find that a very thin defence against drinking
no, i don't want it any more but my sobriety rests on much more than that. that would be no defence at all.
i personally find that a very thin defence against drinking
no, i don't want it any more but my sobriety rests on much more than that. that would be no defence at all.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by fini 
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hm....one of the mix-ups in this thread, from my p.o.v. is that it all went to AV immediately when the OP said nothing about that.
the OP was "frameless", so to speak, but most every post afterwards, the posters framed legna's statements into AVRT parameters.
hm....one of the mix-ups in this thread, from my p.o.v. is that it all went to AV immediately when the OP said nothing about that.
the OP was "frameless", so to speak, but most every post afterwards, the posters framed legna's statements into AVRT parameters.
Under those circumstances it seems completely understandable it would flow into discussion in the form of "AVRT parameters". At least to me.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by fini
its this line which would be identified as delusional for me:"it is a check for me of sorts to see if there is anything left there for me."
hm...my thinking is that if i were to experience any kind of pull, i'd know that what i'm doing isn't "enough".
but i recognize that this line of thinking is not in line with AVRT, and would be AV if i were doing AVRT.
since i'm not, i'm in the spot i'm in, and every once in a while wonder if i need to do something else.
i have no intention or desire to drink again,but since i'm not into AVRT, i have no BP that would ensure this
(no, i will not get one to fix this situation )
hm...my thinking is that if i were to experience any kind of pull, i'd know that what i'm doing isn't "enough".
but i recognize that this line of thinking is not in line with AVRT, and would be AV if i were doing AVRT.
since i'm not, i'm in the spot i'm in, and every once in a while wonder if i need to do something else.
i have no intention or desire to drink again,but since i'm not into AVRT, i have no BP that would ensure this
(no, i will not get one to fix this situation )Speaking for myself, having or not having desire for drinking made no difference for the choices I made to quit drinking. So, even if I had desires tonight, nothing about my responsibilities, or how I do or don't do whatever would change. I quit drinking because I couldn't live with it, of course, but even in a delusional sense, without it either. Something had to change, so I changed fundamentally and without conditions on those changes. I revolutionised my entire psyche no less.
My re-invention and renewal which I freely chose and sought was and remains irrevocable. I need not re-visit my foundational beginnings or present practices. The proof is in the pudding. Decades of happily and successfully being a non-drinker speaks for itself
In fact, what I'm doing works so well all these years in comparison to what I was doing while drinking, the only motivation I could ever have for re-checking my status would be valuable only if I returned to drinking. A return to drinking would be sufficient for me to re-examine what is what with me -- but only an actual return to drinking would accomplish the re-examination. I'm much too successful to doubt myself is another way of saying what I'm meaning, I suppose.
So yeah, the only way I could sincerely discover if there was anything there left for me, would be to return to drinking, which is on so many levels simply delusional ideations when I "make myself" think about drinking. I can't think about it (future drinking) without my awareness of that kind of thinking being delusional.
That's a good thing for me.
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i get what you're saying, Robby; we're in different places; different people, different views. you re-invented yourself...i didn't. i think of it more in terms of layers, and uncovering.
and therefore i (re) examine. i want nothing unexamined that might pertain to me and drinking. and i know that's not what you're recommending by what you're saying.
I can't think about it (future drinking) without my awareness of that kind of thinking being delusional.
yeah, i hear you. from where i'm sitting, when i think about it, i can't do it. but then again, i don't ever hear the "oh you can just have one now" nonsense.
if i were to use something akin to AA language, oddly i'd have to say the obsession was lifted when i understood in my entire being that i was a drunk. game over when i knew it that way. thoughts of moderation...now THOSE are delusions to me that i don't have anymore.
i do wonder if there's something about the two-sober-decades time and you and legna both having the "cured" concept floating at that time...
@legna: on my LR forum, yes, there was a person who was quite sure he could now moderate if he so wanted to. but he didn't want to. sounds much like you, and he got to that point basically by shifting his identity to being a non-drinker. after several years of sobriety.
just talking about it so you know you're not the only one.
personally, if i ever think i could moderate, something would be terribly wrong, and i hope i'd have enough wits left to see that. it would mean that somehow i had managed to cover up layers of truth that it took me years to accept. i'd have to unknow what i know.
and therefore i (re) examine. i want nothing unexamined that might pertain to me and drinking. and i know that's not what you're recommending by what you're saying.
I can't think about it (future drinking) without my awareness of that kind of thinking being delusional.
yeah, i hear you. from where i'm sitting, when i think about it, i can't do it. but then again, i don't ever hear the "oh you can just have one now" nonsense.
if i were to use something akin to AA language, oddly i'd have to say the obsession was lifted when i understood in my entire being that i was a drunk. game over when i knew it that way. thoughts of moderation...now THOSE are delusions to me that i don't have anymore.
i do wonder if there's something about the two-sober-decades time and you and legna both having the "cured" concept floating at that time...
@legna: on my LR forum, yes, there was a person who was quite sure he could now moderate if he so wanted to. but he didn't want to. sounds much like you, and he got to that point basically by shifting his identity to being a non-drinker. after several years of sobriety.
just talking about it so you know you're not the only one.
personally, if i ever think i could moderate, something would be terribly wrong, and i hope i'd have enough wits left to see that. it would mean that somehow i had managed to cover up layers of truth that it took me years to accept. i'd have to unknow what i know.
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legna,
after thinking about this a bit more, i'm a bit puzzled as to whether this would make a difference in the concrete living of your days? what i mean is....if you believe yourself "cured", does that look any different than "uncured" (why am i thinking of meat now???).
in your head...how, if at all, does it make you see yourself differently?
can't articulate my question properly; maybe it comes down to this one: what does that mean to you?
after thinking about this a bit more, i'm a bit puzzled as to whether this would make a difference in the concrete living of your days? what i mean is....if you believe yourself "cured", does that look any different than "uncured" (why am i thinking of meat now???).
in your head...how, if at all, does it make you see yourself differently?
can't articulate my question properly; maybe it comes down to this one: what does that mean to you?
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