Does the beast ever truly die or will it always be there lurking?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 226
Well, I don't have 20 years sober, but after a really stressful situation at about three months it took me a week to realize Hey, I didn't even think about picking up! There have been moments when yea, the big bad AV rears its head. But it's easier to dismiss now (at five months). Ymmv
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
It's been more than 30 years since I had my last drink. The Beast never really dies, but having said that, it really doesn't just sit there in the dark lurking either. The Beast is born from healthy desire that has at some point become twisted abnormally with an addictive desire for alcohol. The Beast is only concerned and devoted to that twisted addictive desire for alcohol (and / or drugs as the case may be)
So the Beast can't really "die" since desire itself is a healthy human experience. Along with the twisted desire is also the AV of the Beast - the Addictive Voice. The AV is the actual addiction itself. The Beast is the desire.
I've never been interested in killing the Beast or its AV. IT'S death is not important or required. AVRT is all about learning a technique to separate The Beast and AV from me. It's in the separation that one is freed from both the addiction and the desire. Even with the Beast alive and with whatever AV chatter, I can still easily not drink.
The separation really is the ideal prize sought - and is enough in itself, is my experience.
So the Beast can't really "die" since desire itself is a healthy human experience. Along with the twisted desire is also the AV of the Beast - the Addictive Voice. The AV is the actual addiction itself. The Beast is the desire.
I've never been interested in killing the Beast or its AV. IT'S death is not important or required. AVRT is all about learning a technique to separate The Beast and AV from me. It's in the separation that one is freed from both the addiction and the desire. Even with the Beast alive and with whatever AV chatter, I can still easily not drink.
The separation really is the ideal prize sought - and is enough in itself, is my experience.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aurora
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot 
It's been more than 30 years since I had my last drink. The Beast never really dies, but having said that, it really doesn't just sit there in the dark lurking either. The Beast is born from healthy desire that has at some point become twisted abnormally with an addictive desire for alcohol. The Beast is only concerned and devoted to that twisted addictive desire for alcohol (and / or drugs as the case may be)
So the Beast can't really "die" since desire itself is a healthy human experience. Along with the twisted desire is also the AV of the Beast - the Addictive Voice. The AV is the actual addiction itself. The Beast is the desire.
I've never been interested in killing the Beast or its AV. IT'S death is not important or required. AVRT is all about learning a technique to separate The Beast and AV from me. It's in the separation that one is freed from both the addiction and the desire. Even with the Beast alive and with whatever AV chatter, I can still easily not drink.
The separation really is the ideal prize sought - and is enough in itself, is my experience.
So the Beast can't really "die" since desire itself is a healthy human experience. Along with the twisted desire is also the AV of the Beast - the Addictive Voice. The AV is the actual addiction itself. The Beast is the desire.
I've never been interested in killing the Beast or its AV. IT'S death is not important or required. AVRT is all about learning a technique to separate The Beast and AV from me. It's in the separation that one is freed from both the addiction and the desire. Even with the Beast alive and with whatever AV chatter, I can still easily not drink.
The separation really is the ideal prize sought - and is enough in itself, is my experience.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
I quit drinking in 1981, years before Rational Recovery became organised (1986) and the writings of Jack Trimpey with his RR: The New Cure (1996).
In my own ways, since day one, I was, and still am, using common everyday lore and knowledge concerning quitting that people have been using for centuries: Just quit and deal with whatever is happening internally by refusing to be overcome or otherwise ruled by whatever addictive desire and mental angst may exist. As it turns out, my early and ongoing understanding of my own alcoholic mind has much in common with what is offered by AVRT, so I easily can make use of Trimpey's writings successfully. I also make use of AA program too. And Gestalt therapy as well. Friends and family too. I take whatever I need from whatever, no problem. I also give back as best I can. I am a recovered alcoholic drug addict.
Thanks for your kind words, TameTheBeast. Take it easy. Have a great evening. Good to see you getting on the right side of addiction.
In my own ways, since day one, I was, and still am, using common everyday lore and knowledge concerning quitting that people have been using for centuries: Just quit and deal with whatever is happening internally by refusing to be overcome or otherwise ruled by whatever addictive desire and mental angst may exist. As it turns out, my early and ongoing understanding of my own alcoholic mind has much in common with what is offered by AVRT, so I easily can make use of Trimpey's writings successfully. I also make use of AA program too. And Gestalt therapy as well. Friends and family too. I take whatever I need from whatever, no problem. I also give back as best I can. I am a recovered alcoholic drug addict.
Thanks for your kind words, TameTheBeast. Take it easy. Have a great evening. Good to see you getting on the right side of addiction.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,937
I'm only 9 months sober so take this with a grain of salt! The Beast is kind of like a girlfriend that I broke up with. I remember the good times and miss her, but as time goes on I also remember the bad. Every day I miss her a little less.
Even if you thought you and The Beast would be together forever, you really can leave her/him behind. Maybe the thought will linger but I've found the voice gets quieter and quieter with each passing week.
Even if you thought you and The Beast would be together forever, you really can leave her/him behind. Maybe the thought will linger but I've found the voice gets quieter and quieter with each passing week.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Worrying about the beast and twisting your hankie, is more AV, I think. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the beast does. It's just 'you again' and 'meh'. I just plain don't drink, so get lost. Jerk.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
something worse may happen to you
Originally Posted by TameTheBeast
I mean lets say you have 20 years abstinent is it dead or can it always come back?
a famous one said one time
now you have been healed
do not return to your sin
or something worse may happen to you
the above explains it all very well
some are healed
if they do not deceive themselves again into thinking
oh yes I could do just one
or
I can control it better now that I have had some clean and sober time
and the list goes on and on
now you have been healed
do not return to your sin
or something worse may happen to you
the above explains it all very well
some are healed
if they do not deceive themselves again into thinking
oh yes I could do just one
or
I can control it better now that I have had some clean and sober time
and the list goes on and on
Guest
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 675
After finding many ways to get loaded and get sober over the last 40 years I have finally decided that I simply love to get high. That will never go away. I had achieved a good healthy distance between myself and that desire over 10 consecutive years of sobriety only to fall back into such a deep hole for 3 years. I am now approaching 15 months of sobriety once again and have decided that keeping in touch with the beast lets you know where it is.
If you are an alcoholic/addict you always will be and vigilance will always be necessary.
If you are an alcoholic/addict you always will be and vigilance will always be necessary.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 737
Consider you live in a very dry climate and find yourself with a brush fire to deal with. Plainly, those things are hard as hell to put out, first off. A few contrary wind gusts and that fire will throw embers that catch elsewhere, leaving you off to throw water on another section of land while the original fire is re-starting.
However, once that fire is contained and most of the embers are out, it's a done deal. Fire is done, no more to worry about. That said, you still live IN A DRY CLIMATE. So you still have keep that land moist and pay attention to certain spots during dry seasons.
That's how it worked with my AV. My ugly dude was a fire the size of a skyscraper at first, but after I set out to cut him down to size it wasn't too long before he was an inconsequential naggy little brat. And the day I actually pulled up my foot and stomped him out it was not a big thing, just an inconsequential moment of realizing that I was done with his nonsense.
The biggest thing that worked for me early on was in objectifying his attempts at dialogue. That's the simplest and most effective alarm bell IMO. Anything that would con me into a drink or rationalize drinking behavior is an ember that I need to stomp out and throw water on. Recognition is the key for me, where AVRT is concerned. I was a helluva con artist when I wanted to get drunk, so I had to fully realize that it would likely be dead easy to con myself into a drink if I wasn't paying attention.
My advice is to look at your latest post "can it be resurrected ever?" That's an ember right there. Stomp it out. To the question specifically, I'll put it this way; if you're driving to Nova Scotia, is it possible to end up in Los Angeles? Nope. Not unless you turn the car around 180 degrees. Same same. You're the one with the steering wheel and the gas pedals AND the brakes. The only one that can resurrect your AV is you trying to navigate without the road map that AVRT (or AA) provides.
For me now? It's almost 3 years for me, and with a combination of AVRT and AA, the AV is just not around, because I keep watering the high grass and watching out for dry spots.
However, once that fire is contained and most of the embers are out, it's a done deal. Fire is done, no more to worry about. That said, you still live IN A DRY CLIMATE. So you still have keep that land moist and pay attention to certain spots during dry seasons.
That's how it worked with my AV. My ugly dude was a fire the size of a skyscraper at first, but after I set out to cut him down to size it wasn't too long before he was an inconsequential naggy little brat. And the day I actually pulled up my foot and stomped him out it was not a big thing, just an inconsequential moment of realizing that I was done with his nonsense.
The biggest thing that worked for me early on was in objectifying his attempts at dialogue. That's the simplest and most effective alarm bell IMO. Anything that would con me into a drink or rationalize drinking behavior is an ember that I need to stomp out and throw water on. Recognition is the key for me, where AVRT is concerned. I was a helluva con artist when I wanted to get drunk, so I had to fully realize that it would likely be dead easy to con myself into a drink if I wasn't paying attention.
My advice is to look at your latest post "can it be resurrected ever?" That's an ember right there. Stomp it out. To the question specifically, I'll put it this way; if you're driving to Nova Scotia, is it possible to end up in Los Angeles? Nope. Not unless you turn the car around 180 degrees. Same same. You're the one with the steering wheel and the gas pedals AND the brakes. The only one that can resurrect your AV is you trying to navigate without the road map that AVRT (or AA) provides.
For me now? It's almost 3 years for me, and with a combination of AVRT and AA, the AV is just not around, because I keep watering the high grass and watching out for dry spots.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aurora
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Peter G
Consider you live in a very dry climate and find yourself with a brush fire to deal with. Plainly, those things are hard as hell to put out, first off. A few contrary wind gusts and that fire will throw embers that catch elsewhere, leaving you off to throw water on another section of land while the original fire is re-starting.
However, once that fire is contained and most of the embers are out, it's a done deal. Fire is done, no more to worry about. That said, you still live IN A DRY CLIMATE. So you still have keep that land moist and pay attention to certain spots during dry seasons.
That's how it worked with my AV. My ugly dude was a fire the size of a skyscraper at first, but after I set out to cut him down to size it wasn't too long before he was an inconsequential naggy little brat. And the day I actually pulled up my foot and stomped him out it was not a big thing, just an inconsequential moment of realizing that I was done with his nonsense.
The biggest thing that worked for me early on was in objectifying his attempts at dialogue. That's the simplest and most effective alarm bell IMO. Anything that would con me into a drink or rationalize drinking behavior is an ember that I need to stomp out and throw water on. Recognition is the key for me, where AVRT is concerned. I was a helluva con artist when I wanted to get drunk, so I had to fully realize that it would likely be dead easy to con myself into a drink if I wasn't paying attention.
My advice is to look at your latest post "can it be resurrected ever?" That's an ember right there. Stomp it out. To the question specifically, I'll put it this way; if you're driving to Nova Scotia, is it possible to end up in Los Angeles? Nope. Not unless you turn the car around 180 degrees. Same same. You're the one with the steering wheel and the gas pedals AND the brakes. The only one that can resurrect your AV is you trying to navigate without the road map that AVRT (or AA) provides.
For me now? It's almost 3 years for me, and with a combination of AVRT and AA, the AV is just not around, because I keep watering the high grass and watching out for dry spots.
However, once that fire is contained and most of the embers are out, it's a done deal. Fire is done, no more to worry about. That said, you still live IN A DRY CLIMATE. So you still have keep that land moist and pay attention to certain spots during dry seasons.
That's how it worked with my AV. My ugly dude was a fire the size of a skyscraper at first, but after I set out to cut him down to size it wasn't too long before he was an inconsequential naggy little brat. And the day I actually pulled up my foot and stomped him out it was not a big thing, just an inconsequential moment of realizing that I was done with his nonsense.
The biggest thing that worked for me early on was in objectifying his attempts at dialogue. That's the simplest and most effective alarm bell IMO. Anything that would con me into a drink or rationalize drinking behavior is an ember that I need to stomp out and throw water on. Recognition is the key for me, where AVRT is concerned. I was a helluva con artist when I wanted to get drunk, so I had to fully realize that it would likely be dead easy to con myself into a drink if I wasn't paying attention.
My advice is to look at your latest post "can it be resurrected ever?" That's an ember right there. Stomp it out. To the question specifically, I'll put it this way; if you're driving to Nova Scotia, is it possible to end up in Los Angeles? Nope. Not unless you turn the car around 180 degrees. Same same. You're the one with the steering wheel and the gas pedals AND the brakes. The only one that can resurrect your AV is you trying to navigate without the road map that AVRT (or AA) provides.
For me now? It's almost 3 years for me, and with a combination of AVRT and AA, the AV is just not around, because I keep watering the high grass and watching out for dry spots.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chiang Mai Thailand
Posts: 251
Hello TTB...I'm a 9 monther also. The AV is there but I now have more power then "it". Either I am getting stronger or it is getting weaker or maybe a combo of both..but it does get easier you will see.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 140
I found Rational Recovery to be really interesting, and I was very skeptical at first. The whole concept of "the beast" sounded really silly to me until I actually read it and then AVRT thing made more sense to me. I think for years I searched for the reason I drank. I had a great childhood, and my human interaction has never been fruitless, so I always wondered "why am I doing this? I'm not covering anything up". Well, RR sort of finally made the light switch on, and I realized I had become addicted to drinking. I had done it so much that now my brain was telling me that I needed beer, and when you "need" something it's a responsibility.
Over time it does get better, but it's recognizing what really triggers "the beast" activity and for me it was boredom. For years I had been supposedly enhancing most mundane experiences with drinking so for me it was at those times I had to stay diligent in enjoying the little things in life without making a drive to the store. For me as an individual, changing my routine and keeping a positive attitude was key to being able to say: "No. I never drink."~ and recognizing that I really didn't want to go buy beer.
Lol, the real lesson is in this story: don't go to the store.
Over time it does get better, but it's recognizing what really triggers "the beast" activity and for me it was boredom. For years I had been supposedly enhancing most mundane experiences with drinking so for me it was at those times I had to stay diligent in enjoying the little things in life without making a drive to the store. For me as an individual, changing my routine and keeping a positive attitude was key to being able to say: "No. I never drink."~ and recognizing that I really didn't want to go buy beer.
Lol, the real lesson is in this story: don't go to the store.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central America/Florida USA
Posts: 4,064
Originally Posted by RaiseAnchor
Over time it does get better, but it's recognizing what really triggers "the beast" activity and for me it was boredom.
I think addicts crave stimulation, and we have a natural inhibition to throw caution to the wind when it comes to feeling good. If it feels good, do it. Ask questions later. We might be able to quit drinking, but we still continue to need to satisfy that monster. We are not selfish people, we are intelligent people who simply squirm at the thought of being bored. If you read this forum, you will see "I'm bored" as a very frequent complaint and it's something we struggle with.
Right now I continue to remind myself never to let my life get so boring, that a drink becomes appealing. I am continuously searching for new outlets - if I'm not doing something that interests me, I can fall into a dangerous place. Eventually I hope to change my way of thinking, change the definition of boredom. But for now I'll settle for this band-aid solution, it's at least stopped the bleeding...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: paducah
Posts: 10
"The Beast"after 337 days sober it is fatally injured,he is off in a hole somewhere bleeding to death!BUT,every once in a while it'll yell for help and thats when you have to be careful. But really,it gets easier everyday,when the AV starts speaking i refer back to my memories of being sick and getting arrested,blah,blah...i was a drunk for 20 years.I tried many many times to stop with little success,Plain and simple you wont quit til you truely hit YOUR rock bottom!!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
The baby cub within me has been
asleep since 8-11-90, some 22 yrs.
ago. Over the yrs. as he remains
sleeping, he continues to grow.
To take a drink would wake him
and he won't emerge as a little
cub, but rather a hungry, angry,
ferocious, aggressive Tiger, rip,
roaring it's way destroying all in it's
path.
For it to stay asleep, I will continue to
not drink each day living my recovery
way of life, enjoying the promises granted
to us by simply passing on my own ESH,
experiences, strengths and hopes of what
my life was and is like before, during and
after my drinking career.
asleep since 8-11-90, some 22 yrs.
ago. Over the yrs. as he remains
sleeping, he continues to grow.
To take a drink would wake him
and he won't emerge as a little
cub, but rather a hungry, angry,
ferocious, aggressive Tiger, rip,
roaring it's way destroying all in it's
path.
For it to stay asleep, I will continue to
not drink each day living my recovery
way of life, enjoying the promises granted
to us by simply passing on my own ESH,
experiences, strengths and hopes of what
my life was and is like before, during and
after my drinking career.
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