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Trouble disassociating...

Old 06-18-2013, 05:28 AM
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Trouble disassociating...

After really loving the conceptual framework and insights into recovery/abstinence that Rational Recovery lays out I'm on day 5 and having a difficult time separating/disassociating my Beast's calls for booze from my own.

I made my big plan. I tell it to myself to silence the Beast. But rationally I'm having a hard time.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
After really loving the conceptual framework and insights into recovery/abstinence that Rational Recovery lays out I'm on day 5 and having a difficult time separating/disassociating my Beast's calls for booze from my own.

I made my big plan. I tell it to myself to silence the Beast. But rationally I'm having a hard time.
lessgravity,

It helped me to posts my thoughts here when I first began using RR/AVRT and then I asked for members familiar with the technique to sort out what was potentially beast. Helped a lot for me in the beginning.

If you choose to do this, just remember this forum can be a bit slow so don't be surprised if it takes a bit for a response. In the meantime I made sure I read all the posts on the AVRT thread and anything that had to do with Rational Recovery.

I will tell you this. I had a feeling, when you were posting yesterday about RR, that your beast would raise it's ugly pathetic head to try and jerk you around. Just remember it is a quadriplegic and cannot make YOU do anything. IT is a POS.

ETA: In the beginning I would just roll my eyes at my beast and tell it to go to hell.

Freshstart, soberlicious, GerandTwine and others will hopefully be along to help you sort this out.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
having a difficult time separating/disassociating my Beast's calls for booze from my own.
YOU don't have calls for booze. That's ALL Beast.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:08 AM
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Yup! Non is exactly right.

Any thought or feeling associated with drinking or using is pure AV and therefore beast. None of it is YOU. You will never drink again and never change your mind.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:23 AM
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There are two parties to your addiction -- you and your Beast, "I" and "it". You can easily recognize your addictive voice by the following definition:

Any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports the possible future use of alcohol or drugs is pure AV and therefore Beast.

You do not want to drink. You have made your BP. "IT" is now barking like a dog.


AV is to the Beast as Bark is to a Dog.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:06 AM
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Thanks. It's still difficult at the moment.


Received - ha was it my utter confidence in recovery?
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:10 AM
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For me, it scared the crap out of my beast when I made my BP. Too bad for the pathetic lying POS. IT only wants one thing and IT will never get it.

Never means never. It's not, one day at a time, It's not, just for today and it's not, I'll commit to 30, 90 (insert # of days/weeks). I will NEVER. Drove the PITA crazy when I made my BP.

For me? All of a sudden I understood why I always felt the devil was on my tail even when I had years and years of not drinking. Why I finally caved after so many years.

It was the night I came here, to SR, I found out about Rational Recovery and I am now recovered.

In all my years not drinking, and using a recovery group method, I never felt the freedom I have since making my BP.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:25 AM
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Hey lessgravity-
Separation from the beast is still something I have a hard time with. For me it is something I am still learning how to do.... however, as I am "learning" that this is beast or that is beast I have one thing that I keep in mind "I don't care if it is my beast or me screaming in my head I don't drink. It is not an option... no matter what."

I can see more clearly now that all of it is beast in regards to drinking but, at first I really struggled with this...A few times (even once recently) it almost had me believing it. However, the beast is a damn liar. I don't want to do that to myself and I am sure you don't either....

Jess
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:48 AM
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I see so much of myself in your posts, lessgravity.
When I first dicovered AVRT and the concept of separation I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. My relief was immediate and tangible as I converted in an instant from half hating myself to hating half of myself. It is a distinction I think you can probably relate to. There really IS a voice in my head! I wanted to share it with the world.

Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
Thanks. It's still difficult at the moment.
I don't have trouble distinguishing between what I want and what IT wants.

The part I have had trouble with is exercising my Executive Control over IT. I have relinquished that a few times and chosen to drink. It's been a mistake EVERY time.

Now that I have identified IT, the only rational relationship for me to have with IT is to subordinate IT to my will. It's just unchartered territory for me.

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:28 AM
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Hi lessgravity,
Here is how I look at it...I don't "hate" it. I realize that IT is simply doing ITS job...nothing personal against me, but the Beast has an agenda and bless ITS heart, it's doing its best to accomplish it. IT wants to drink....uh, no big surprise there. To be expected really. So what? Drinking is not an option, and neither is experiencing the Beast's pain as my own.

The beast is desire for getting f*cked up. Like any other desire I have, it is my choice whether I act on any given desire. Obviously, I don't act on every "desire" (aka fleeting thought) I have.

Identifying the AV is simple...as received said, it is any thought that suggests drinking/using now or in the future. Any thought related to that doesn't even need to be examined. Ironically, it is your AV telling you that you don't know the difference between YOU and IT. Create doubt, cause confusion...yeah those are classic AV tactics.

I always work to remain calm during increased Beast activity. Bunched panties leave me vulnerable. Breathe...
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:23 AM
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*waves*

LessGravity, we sometimes get into parsing posts here, and it can be intrusive sometimes but being obnoxious is not my intent. Please bear with me.

I'm on day 5 and having a difficult time separating/disassociating my Beast's calls for booze from my own.
YOU don't have any calls for alcohol simply because you have made your big plan to quit for good. Any and all calls for alcohol are your beast's. If you meant that it is difficult to separate your beast from you, then again, look back at your plan. It comes from this.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:58 AM
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So many great responses.


So yes I see that it's pure AV - this chatter in my head that I'm going to drink again telling me to go to this party tomorrow night that I was asked to by these beautiful women. I know I don't want to - in that I wouldn't mind the excitement and attention but that I am not going to drink ever again and so entertaining such thoughts is merely my AV speaking for the beast.

Still the Beast is telling me that I'm not going to follow through, that it's only a matter of time. That said it feel like some days it's just reiterating my Plan and not drinking, even if the doubts are strong.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:11 AM
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The insanity of alcoholism is that we return again and again to alcohol, despite all the misery and despair and chaos that drinking brings with it. That alcoholic insanity, for many, is personified by the the AV, the beast.

Here is how I disassociated myself from the beast. I quit drinking because I made a clear, rational, and sane decision to quit. I'm never going to drink again. After that "plan" is in place, any thoughts of drinking is clearly the insanity of alcoholism. Even if it's "my" voice, it doesn't matter. I will not listen to anything that will cause me to perform an insane act.

And drinking would be insane.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:41 AM
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The doubts are part of your beast's nefarious efforts to undermine your own resolve and get you drinking again. You must believe in yourself fully, completely and absolutely. You are not quitting drinking, this is something that has already happened. A completed action in the past.

Doubts in your ability, and thoughts about drinking again are no longer yours but your beast's. Again, this is a certainty because of the implications of your BP.

I don't know about you, but attending a party at the request of some attractive persons of that other sex would be a high risk activity. Be aware and mindful of yourself and your thoughts. They aren't bad per se, but you can make this easier on yourself if you step back a bit and let your awareness go to work for you.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:04 AM
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The Beast got stuffed down his miserable little hole again last night.

Clarity. Lack of shame. Power.

Thank you all for the responses.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by freshstart
I don't know about you, but attending a party at the request of some attractive persons of that other sex would be a high risk activity.
High risk for what? Non drinkers are not at risk for drinking. Non drinkers don't drink...

Personally, the whole slippery slope thing is AV. I realize my opinion on this is not popular, but the idea that situations are "high risk/slippery" is pure AV...creating doubt, creating fear, saying that you are abstinent "as long as you avoid parties with beautiful people." No, there is no "as long as". That's a condition to abstinence.

I love attractive people and parties, but if everyone there was drunk, I would be bored. I would not go to that party if drinking was the sole focus of the gathering, not because I might drink, but because I'm not interested. Drinking is no longer my hobby. If I am thinking of going (and drinking), then I would recognize that as pure AV bulllshit, but that doesn't mean I "can't" or "shouldn't" go....it means I see my AV trying to use the beautiful people gathering as an excuse to drink, which of course is not happening whether I go or not, because I am a non drinker and we non drinkers, well, we don't drink. But a party? Oh hell yes, I love parties.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:59 AM
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OK, Soberlicious, you know I agree with you 100%. AV is AV is AV. There is nothing that can make me drink ever again, even a party with free booze, and an invitation with promise from, say, Elizabeth Moss.

I would still be reluctant to counsel a good friend, newly sober, to hit the party circuit. I was a little shakey myself for a while, and tried to be gentle with myself, and to do the things that non-drinkers do.

Now, I might just take Ms. Moss up on her offer. The Resident Love Goddess would love to meet her too.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:25 AM
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Yes, Fresh, I know you agree with me and I know what you are getting at. I'm not at all suggesting hitting the party circuit for anyone, not right now... or ever, for that matter. I am saying "know thyself", or more aptly "know thy AV"...

The party itself is neutral. I see it as a party, but my beast will see it as an opportunity to drink. As long as I understand this and maintain clear separation, then it doesn't matter where I go. No amount of time needs to pass for this to occur either, as you know.

Elizabeth Moss? Uh, yeah...I'm in!
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:28 PM
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....apparently there's a party here in need of some beautiful people? I'm free if you need me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:53 PM
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Non lol!
Thanks for offering your services....for some reason this dude comes to mind...

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