soberlicious

The beast (whose "voice" is the AV) is not going to be convinced of anything ever. It has but one agenda. Discussing things with the beast is about as productive as discussing them with a horse. It's not going to work.

The only thing that works with the beast (and a horse) is consistency. Consistently stick to your plan and the beast becomes so weak that it's occasional acting out is nothing more than a passing annoyance.

A horse that is given even a tiny bit of it's own way will quickly become unmanageable, but one that is broken and trained well will always faithfully submit. It's an animal after all and we expect that from it. Similar principles apply when becoming a beast whisperer.

MidnightBlue

Great job on writing the Big Plan, Jeni)

And I can so much relate to "like being badass but just don't feel it most of the time". I think it's a work in progress, like building a house brick by brick. Walking the road step by step, and with every step there will be more badass and less AV in us)

My AV's been also ruthless since then. And today it's been just extremely cruel. I think it's because the beast is agonizing. It didn/t even whisper, it almost shouted at me things like:

"Look at your belly that is sticking out again - why are you waisting your time in the gym? Just look at this "badass' - you are pathetic."

"You say that you are a writer? I haven't seen anything published yet. You even don't have guts to revise drafts of two novels you've written. Come on, who are you trying to fool here. Yourself?"

I felt so bad, I almost burst into tears in the gym. For a moment it made me hate myself and feel a loser.

But it didn't last long though.

[QUOTE=Discussing things with the beast is about as productive as discussing them with a horse. It's not going to work.[/QUOTE]

Soberlicious - that was brilliant! It was the piece of puzzle I missed. I went on and on overintellectualizing it, and forgot who I am dealing with here.

I just got a kick when imagined me discussing with a horse why it shouldn't fling me off, rear back, or whatever.))))

THANK YOU!


Jeni, during my workout I was thinking about you as well and these lines came to my mind:

I'm badass. I'm no joke.
Don't mess up with me, addiction!
No way I'll ever smoke.
Don't feed me you BS fiction.

I hope your day is going Ok.

See you later)

Jeni26

I loved what soberlicious wrote too. Of course it makes perfect sense, having an intellectual argument with it is futile.

I love your words...BS fiction huh!! I have completely cleaned my car out today inside and out. I've got rid of every cigarette butt in the ashtray, every piece of wrapper, old screwed up packs, and a few lighters that had rolled under the seats. My car looks and smells good. There is no evidence anywhere in my life that I ever smoked (apart from the fact that I have developed a cough since I quit!!)

I went shopping and bought lots of fresh fruit and veg. I even went to our local gym...(this was a biggie, I do NO exercise at the moment!), but it was closed!!

I am worthy and deserving of being healthy....I AM!! (Sorry that shout was intended for my beast!) I'm going to start looking after myself. Stopping smoking was just the start.

Your beast is being cruel. Recognise those words as the BS they are. I will look after myself, and so will you. Addictions?? Pah!!

LifeRecovery

I just want to say thanks for the post.

I am curious because it comes up a lot how it has been to be working two angles of your recovery at this time?

I have been in recovery from an eating disorder for 13 years. I got to this sight though for the family and friends side of things.....this question comes up on the eating disorder side of things a lot though....especially after people get sober.

Smoking and eating tend to be used in place of drinking. It could be another post, but I would love to hear both of your thoughts on that.

Jeni26

Hi LifeRecovery.

I'm not sure if I understand your question. Do you mean how is it to be tackling 2 addictions at the same time? From my perspective, I've smoked on and off since my early 20s. That addiction started before my drinking became the serious problem it turned out to be. I have been sober a year now, I feel quite comfortable with that and despite having some big stress in my life from time to time, I haven't picked up a drink. I felt ready to tackle the other big addiction, but this one has been really bloody hard to let go of. Out of the 2, it is the one most likely to kill me first given my family history, yet I couldn't seem to find a way to do it. AVRT is a new concept to me, I didnt use it to quit drinking, but it's one I'm fully committed to for my smoking. I feel quite empowered by this method. I didn't replace drinking with another addiction, for me the pair of them went hand in hand.

I also had an eating disorder in my teens which was successfully treated.

Does this help?

soberlicious

You could look at those thoughts/words from your AV as cruel...or you could look at them as yet another ridiculous attempt at getting what it wants. MY response to IT would be "Nice try, stupid". Even that is giving IT more attention than is warranted. Remember...IT would love for you to feel wounded by these thoughts. Ridiculousness really, once you see it for what it is

Everything from the AV is rubbish...treat it accordingly. Into the bin it goes without so much as a backward glance.

MidnightBlue

Soberlicious - that was just more than brilliant! Great point! I'm just reading this and smiling. Thank you!!!


LifeRecovery - Technically I don't see it as coping with two addictions at the same time.

I didn't replace drinking with binge eating - it always went along with my drinking. And drinking triggered more eating because I lost control.

First I quit drinking because it was more dangerous. I'm 7.5 months sober now and I can cope with my non-drinking.

I actually didn't use a Big Plan of AVRT when quit wine.

I think that any addiction has the same nature, and we try to escape fear, numb pain, etc.

On my sobriety journey I've learnt to accept feeling instead of escaping them, hiding from pain and challenges.

And fighting binge eating is kind of natural progression. It's another stage of coping with stress, fears, anxiety, etc. without turning to "external comforting".

Taking out its roots of AV makes me stronger in terms of both sobriety and healthy eating.


I hope it all make sense) If not - feel free to ask)


See you all later.

LifeRecovery

This is what I meant.

Many people come to SR to try and quit drinking, smoking, eating and any other bad habit they have all at once.

Or they quit drinking and then food pops up as an issue, they land in the eating disorder side of things.

I think this post strongly shows that the "reasons" might be similar but that there is only some much we can change at one time before tipping the balance out of control another direction.

You are also getting more skills on board by using a piece of recovery that you did not use to get sober.

You all answered my question very well. It was not a personal question for me (I am very happy with my recovery from all sides)....it is just something one side of the board gets asked a lot and I have enjoyed seeing your experiences....

Thanks for starting this.

My two cents (not having done AVRT), but using a lot of mindfullness in recovery. I don't have any control over my feelings, but I do over my thoughts, reactions and behaviors around those feelings. If I don't feel them, sit with them, acknowledge them etc....they have a way of coming out sideways. For me that often means food.

Congrats to you all.

P.S. Part of the reason I ask is that they are finding at least 30% of people with eating disorders also have a substance abuse concern (they don't know how many go the opposite direction). That is so significant and so isolating...it is so nice to see options.

Jeni26

This I intend to imprint on my mind!!

I had to do a bit of public speaking tonight, nothing major but it always makes me feel very anxious beforehand.
My AV told me a cigarette before would help....umm how exactly does that work?!
Then after I'd stammered my way through it, my AV told me I DEFINITELY needed one then, to calm myself down and to help me relax...I mean if that isn't rubbish I don't know what is.
And then...how about this...I've got a bit of a sore throat and cough, my chest feels tight (obviously the effects of quitting a pack a day habit), but my AV told me that smoking...WOULD HELP?!?

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER....

The real Jen doesn't smoke, she takes really good care of herself, she deserves to be healthy and guilt-free. And that is a fact.

MidnightBlue

Hi, Badass gang)

A quick check-in from me.

My AV has been trying its regular range of tricks, but, actually they are getting a little bit old. So I showed it a big whip and said to shut up. It's quiet now, probably plotting another techniques to get to me)

Jeni - good for you to turn down AV while being anxious about public speaking! That's the way Real Badass Jen does.

Great you've decided to give a gym a go. Exercising helps a lot. My AV is hell scared of it because I feel so much better after workouts!

I'll be back with update. See you later)

Jeni26

I will trust what you say about exercise....a new one for me. I've done A LOT of talking about it over the past year or so. But talking does nothing for my health!!

I'm still having trouble putting stuff down on paper about how I see the new Jeni... I'm not sure that's all AV or just low self-esteem, or even a mixture of the 2. It is REALLY difficult to write positives. But I will start with this....

I deserve to be happy.

I deserve to be healthy for me and for those who love me.

I will face anxiety and fear head on, I will not hide any more.

Think I will have to stop there. I am actually feeling very positive and strong today, so no idea why this little task seems difficult to do, scary even....

Have a good day MidnightBlue, I'm going to head down to the gym later...see what all the fuss is about x

MidnightBlue

I've just caught my AV red-handed!

I've got an e-mail from a client and, actually, didn't know what to expect there. My immediate response to it was to go get something "comforting" before reading this e-mail.

AV was whispering: "Come, you need to screw up some courage before doing this".

Really? Is there some magic willpower and courage extract in cookies? You are ridiculous, idiot.

I just took a deep breath and opened it. Guess what? Nothing special)

Jeni- I like the beginning of your description and can totally relate to feeling scary about this Badass description.

If you don't mind I'll give you some tips.

Since I'm writing every day I face the inner critic every day (another big-time jerk and partner-in-crime of my AV). They pair up perfectly. First, the critic bugs me with BS like "you are no good. Look at this crap you are writing. Stop wasting your time. You'd rather make something useful and clean the floor, woman. etc".

Then, when my self-esteem is undermined enough, AV shows up and offers its "help".

In order to turn off your inner critic who scares you and tell **** and bull stories about what you can and what you can not, you have to turn off logic.

Set a timer for 10 or even 5 minutes. Say to yourself that no one will ever see this. You are writing this for yourself. And..just go wild, don't judge yourself. Just write. Your goal here - to fool the inner critic and AV.

Have you checked "fuss about" gym?)))

Hope your day is fine and non-stressful.

Jeni26

Ha ha...I'm good. No work this week, therefore no stress. I'm at home alone and just spent the morning making the house look presentable as most of the time I'm so busy it truly looks like someone just chucked a grenade through the front door..!!....so everything is neat and tidy, my head is in a good place and I'm really believing that cigarettes are gone FOR GOOD. I mean...I REALLY believe it!

Last night I was with this girl who smokes and the pair of us have made half-hearted pacts to quit together before. When I told her I'd quit, she laughed. My AV was right on that...'there you go, she thinks you're ridiculous, everyone will think you're ridiculous, because that's what you are...you never give up for longer than a few weeks, why are you making all this fuss this time??' Blah blah blah. I felt the anger again (I'm honestly not an angry person at all by nature. I never felt like this with drinking). I wanted to scream at my beast, but instead ended up being a bit snappy with her which was totally unfair...I told her this time was different and there would be no more smoking for me. I muttered a few horrible facts about dying from lung cancer which wasn't a terribly tactful conversation to have with a smoker, and I'm feeling a bit guilty about that.
But anyway, I thought about it this morning and actually my usual response in that conversation last night would have been to have laughed along with her...agreed that I was just giving it another go, I would probably soon be back smoking with her, wonder how long it would be before I caved this time, etc etc... But NO. There will be no more attempts.

This is it. I really feel it.

Wow!

Thanks for the tips about writing about the new me...actually I think it's the 'real' me rather than a new one I've decided. I will give it a go later.

Visiting the gym is on my list for this afternoon, I'm looking forward to it. Us badasses take care of ourselves don't we?!

Be back later x

Jeni26

Ok I've eaten well today, I've now joined the gym. I've got my induction tomorrow afternoon. This is major stuff for me...I've never set foot in a gym before let alone actually do any exercise!

This is the real me...happy, healthy and positive. I'm going to look after myself from now on. No more listening to the beast when it tells me I need to smoke or drink or eat junk food. That doesn't make me happy... That doesn't relax me...That doesn't help me cope with stress or worry...It makes me feel ill and unhealthy.

This way is the right way.

MagRich

I have a question for you guys. How did you start? Did you pick a date to implement AVRT? I always tend to pick a date like the 1st, 15th, 20th or a Monday. I set myself up for failure because if I am not successful on THAT date, I pick another one with the same perimaters. This has gone on and off for years. Today is Tuesday the 28th. I have 7 cigarettes left. Surely I cannot become a nonsmoker on Wednesday the 29th~

I had about 8 days free from drinking and decided to screw it all up and "reward" myself last night. I joined here 3 months ago with the intent to stop drinking and smoking both. Any suggestions and thanks for your input!

soberlicious

MagRich...today! Today is perfect for quitting.
JUMP!!!!!

freshstart57

MagRich, you can start recognizing your Addictive Voice anytime. Now is usually regarded as being a good time to the extent that it is better than all other possible times, and therefore the best time.

AV is any thought that promotes use of the substance in question, and is also any thought that expresses doubt in your ability to succeed.

In order to recognize your AV, you must learn to listen to your thoughts and evaluate them as to that AV definition above.

The other aspect to this we call A Big Plan, and that is your vow to quit this for good.

Over all of this, you must believe in yourself and your ability. I believe you can succeed because I believe in YOU.

MidnightBlue

Hi, all. You've been busy here)

Jeni - so glad to hear you've joined the gym. I'm just back from the gym and feel fantastic after two-hour workout) My AV tried its old trick about "look at you, you are not good enough." I just threw him Soberlicious's words "Nice try, stupid". So it kept silent.

It's actually amazing how much better I fell without constant bugging myself with "not good enough. Don't deserve".

It's such a beautiful evening.

Jeni, workouts are somewhat like sobriety - it can be tough at first, but it's just getting better and it's so rewarding. Should you have any questions about workouts, feel free to ask.

I am planning to add up boxing classes to my usual exercising routine soon - so I will be just very Badass))

Good luck with your workouts, Badass pal!

MagRich - hi and welcome) As for me I didn't pick up date to implement AVRT. I just woke up at about 5.30 a.m. , and the night before I had some binge eating. I decided I had to do something about that because my willpower wasn't enough. So I red about it here. And I wrote my Big Plan - because, I know there's a magic date that always works fine - RIGHT NOW.

I used to play with date setting too - it never worked. There's nothing magic about any particular date and it won't help to succeed. So, just believe that you can do it. You don't need "help" of any particular date. You just can do it. Right now. Best luck and keep posting)

I've decided to put aside money that I used to spend on my "binge food" and then reward myself with some pampering like manicure, some facials, or anything else.

I absolutely agree with you Jeni - we, badasses, take care of ourselves.

Time for me to go to bed)

See you all tomorrow.

Jeni26

Morning...ok today was the first day in a long long time I didn't wake with a sense of anxiety. There is no reason for me to feel anxious obviously, but even so I do. Sometimes I wake in the middle of the night, sometimes I have to get dressed and go for a walk (and a smoke), but today...I just woke and thought about my plans to take care of myself and what a good idea that is.

I'm making a new big plan today for the junk food. That can go the same way as the cigarettes. I wasn't even sure the eating was an addiction, but when I got home last night I found myself raiding the cupboards for a sugar fix. When I started thinking seriously about how simple it would be just to kick this into touch the same way as the smoking....I started hearing the beast 'what the F do you think you're doing??? What are you going to do to have fun and de-stress now? You're doing all this way too fast...this will all start unravelling you know...you will end up DRUNK, you think you can cope with life? Well you're wrong, you're totally screwed up mentally and by cutting out all these supports you will have a breakdown and end up in a worse place than you were last year...and last year you were suicidal!!'

This was a serious beast tantrum. I listened to it..my heart started racing a bit. But it is ridiculous, it really is. It isn't true...giving up chocolate and cake will lead me to drinking?? Please!!

I am stronger than that. All it has done is prove to me the junk food HAS TO GO.

MidnightBlue

Morning, Jeni)

Glad you feel good today. You know it's weird and amazing at the same time, but me to, today I woke up so calm, and in a good mood. The first time in a looooong time. And the last night was the first night in a long time that I fell asleep without anxiety and my mind racing around.

As for junk food -it goes right to the same place as AV - to the trash bin! It's just another stupid habit, like drinking, imposed on us my media and modern culture and ridiculous patterns.

Eat a burger and feel happy. Really? Eat this chocolate bar and feel like you are in a bounty island. Please! Eat these potato chips (just a killing mix of crap, IMHO) and you'll have a lot of fun. Oh, come on!

As for beast tantrum - our beasts probably graduated from the same "Addiction Beasts' University" - mine keeps telling me the same BS: "Who do you think you are to deal with stress and life without "comforting" food." Oh, come on.

Of course you are stronger.

It's funny. I've just poked in another thread here and it was said that it's kind of silly to use AVRT for dieting. Though I don't call it's dieting what I do now, but it's not the point. My beast was happy and just screamed: "See!!!! What did I tell you!!! You are silly and pathetic!".

- "Nice try, stupid (thanks again, Soberlicious, for this great idea). Now, shut up and take your place in a trash bin".

If seriously, it's amazing how much "mental clutter" goes away when you fight AV.

Have a good day, Jeni.

See you later, Badass Pal)