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Interesting Weekend Coming Up

Old 04-01-2013, 05:40 AM
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Interesting Weekend Coming Up

Wife and I are going back to her hometown to take her father to a neurology appointment. Her father is an alcoholic. Fortunately, he's not the falling down or belligerent kind. He's the starts-drinking-at-5-gets-droll-and-jovial-and-stumbles-off-to-bed-around-10 kind. His family has called him out on it, but he doesn't care. My mother-in-law divorced him 20 years ago over it, but he doesn't care. He wants his wine and vodka every night and he does not see a problem with it.

His neurology appointment is a quarterly follow up. He has something else going on in addition to his alcohol addiction, but the doctors aren't sure what it is. His mental capacity is deteriorating, and the quarterly check ups are to ensure he is still competent to live on his own. He is 76.

I have always been more than happy to join him on his nightly benders, but I won't be on this trip. I'll likely be a bit bored in the evenings, but there are worse things in life. Watching him drink is not going to bother me.

Him watching me NOT drink might bother him. My excessive drinking has always been a secret from my wife's side of the family, but alcoholics tend to keep track of the booze distribution in the room. My drinking has probably been noticed by him. Might have to let the cat out of the bag this weekend if he mentions it. Just playing that part by ear.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:47 AM
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Hi nonsensical I've found in the past what has worked for me in similar situations was to almost brush right over the drinking questioning aspects, and keep my focus on the positive future being vigilant to not dwell on the past and the 'drinking era'. I'm choosing to be sober now, its not an issue, I'm doing this tomorrow, thanks next conversation!
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:54 AM
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passing the time at your father in-laws

578212_10151824768398079_2006234375_n[1].jpg

will he approve of your new addiction?

I hope all is OK. the alcohol might be speeding up his deterioration?
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:08 AM
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I strongly suspect the alcohol might be speeding up his deterioration, but the neurologist thinks it is something else. My wife has medical power of attorney, so the doctor can freely discuss the issues with her, and she with him. She has told the doctor about his drinking, but I am wondering if he is hiding some of it from us. He seems to have not changed his intake level for the past 20 years, and that strikes me as not the normal trend for an addicted drinker.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:26 AM
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His circulation, BP, cardiovascular health might also be contributing to his neuropathy too.

when you drink that much at an advanced age, your brain does not recover as quickly as a younger person. The elderly brain can lose a lot of function in certain areas especially if he lives alone and doesn't get the stimulation from interacting with others, good diet and weight bearing exercise.

(my mother suffered from advanced dementia, I attended a few lectures they used to provide for family at her nursing home...they never addressed alcohol, because no one drank there. but I did talk with her physician about how she did not bounce back after surgery, she was completely delusional for weeks. he explained the effects of prolonged anesthesia and the elderly brain).

I hope that your FIL is safe and is able to enjoy his life, you probably cannot stop him from drinking unless you move him and take it away.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:38 AM
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Hi Non Has he had a liver function test? (Blood test) hepatic encephalopathy is a by-product of an abnormally functioning liver (I had alcohol induced hepatitis... I have researched for nearly 2 years about the liver!)
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:48 AM
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No plans to try to force him to stop drinking. It's been discussed by my wife and her 3 brothers over the years, but it's up to him.

I don't know if his liver was checked or not, Zee. He has had a battery of tests in the past 3-4 years, but I am not fully knowledgeable on the details of what specifically was looked at.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:55 AM
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Hey Non. Do you really need to take on someone elses addiction? Deal with your own for now. Love your family, deal with yourself.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
...Him watching me NOT drink might bother him. My excessive drinking has always been a secret from my wife's side of the family, but alcoholics tend to keep track of the booze distribution in the room. My drinking has probably been noticed by him. Might have to let the cat out of the bag this weekend if he mentions it. Just playing that part by ear.
I was worried when my mother came to visit this weekend, because we always dove into the booze together. She commented that there wasn't enough wine (it used to take 4 bottles a night between the two of us), and I just said I wasn't having any and that was that. She reminded me the next day that we needed to go to the liquor store to get more whiskey because I was out, and I just said, "okay". She drank it, I didn't and no big thing.

As for being bored in the evenings, have you ever thought about learning to knit?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by trachemys View Post
Hey Non. Do you really need to take on someone elses addiction? Deal with your own for now. Love your family, deal with yourself.
How am I taking on his addiction? I do not understand your meaning.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
How am I taking on his addiction? I do not understand your meaning.
Some of his problems with his addiction sound like you are taking them on as your concern .

I did that with my mother for a while
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:32 AM
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He is a family member, so his drinking problem is of concern to me. I'm not trying to do anything about it, though. Everyone has pretty much given up on convincing him to stop. In fact, his daughter gave him 6 bottles of wine last night for his belated birthday present.

Last night was our first night with him after driving all day to get here. My wife and her father had a glass of wine each then we went off to dinner. My FIL offered me several drink options before getting the message that I wasn't having anything alcoholic. They each had another glass of wine with dinner. Then we went back to his place where they each had a 3rd glass of wine. Then it was late and we were tired , so we left for our hotel. I presume my FIL had a few more after we left. He keeps half gallons of red wine and vodka on a kitchen shelf for ease of access.

It was a little awkward, just because it is unfamiliar to me to be the only guy in the room NOT drinking. That will get easier over time as NOT drinking becomes as habitual as drinking was for me. Lots of AV chatter, of course. I never let him steal the "I" from me, though. I did have the thought that it would be nice to drink in moderation like they were doing. All of my AV thoughts were more barbaric. Visuals of me sneaking drinks when no one was looking, etc.

I slept well, so I am ready to take on another sober day!
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:43 AM
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If you are practicing social sober situations.....this is probably a good weekend to do it.
You get to see first hand how the booze is ruining is quality of life.
Idk about his daughter giving him 6 bottles of wine though, i am guessing it was fine wine....and he buys 1/2 gallon bottles for "everyday" drinking....(as i did).
I 'll bet his recycling tells you a lot about his consumption....more than he will.
Have a great day, at least you are at a hotel to give you a break.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Fandy View Post
If you are practicing social sober situations.....this is probably a good weekend to do it.
I agree. I want and need to get comfortable around drinking people. Not alcoholics, of course, but this seems like a contained place to cut my teeth on learning how to gracefully abstain.

Originally Posted by Fandy View Post
Idk about his daughter giving him 6 bottles of wine though, i am guessing it was fine wine....and he buys 1/2 gallon bottles for "everyday" drinking....(as i did).
Yeah. That story is rather strange. I was packing the car yesterday (we drove my wife's car here) and I noticed a box in the trunk. Not unusual, and there was still plenty of room, so I packed our stuff in next to it. Never noticed what it was.

As we pulled out of the driveway I heard rattling from the trunk, so I said, "what's that?" My wife was incredulous I had not noticed it was a wine box with 6 bottles of wine in it - but I really hadn't. Mind was on other things, I guess.

We had received a gift card from Total Wine for Xmas and my wife does not want to have alcohol in the house yet. She wanted to use the gift card, so she used it for her father. Like I said - everyone has given up on convincing him not to drink. Might as well give him something besides Carlo Rossi. I don't necessarily agree with that thinking, but I'm also not willing to fight with my wife about it.

Originally Posted by Fandy View Post
I 'll bet his recycling tells you a lot about his consumption....more than he will.
I have a mental note of the levels in both bottles. He might be hiding some elsewhere, of course. It's a common tactic for us alcoholics - display the bottles we want you to see, while keeping a hidden stash.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
Lots of AV chatter, of course. I never let him steal the "I" from me, though. I did have the thought that it would be nice to drink in moderation like they were doing. All of my AV thoughts were more barbaric. Visuals of me sneaking drinks when no one was looking, etc.
Are you suggesting the moderation idea was You and not IT?
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
Are you suggesting the moderation idea was You and not IT?
Yeah, I noticed that the other day. The other day was rather exhausting and as I was walking toward my little place I thought how grateful I am for AVRT because without it I would be thinking how today would have been a great day to have a few beers. Then I thought "wait a minute, that's my AV trying to disguise itself as me and AVRT to get me to drink". Now THAT was freaky. Still creeps me out.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
Are you suggesting the moderation idea was You and not IT?
Frankly, I'm not sure who it was.

In order for me to realize I can't drink in moderation, I have to understand what moderation is, and why I can't have it. Is it beast to wish I had never been addicted to alcohol? Seems like I could rationally wish such an alternate reality existed. Although obviously it becomes a precursor to a subsequent (and obviously AV) thought - try drinking moderately again.

It gets subtle and layered, but whether it is AV or not is a moot point. I have to deal with the world I woke up in this morning, and in that world I will never drink again because that is the only 100% guaranteed rational choice I have remaining to me with respect to alcohol.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
Frankly, I'm not sure who it was.

In order for me to realize I can't drink in moderation, I have to understand what moderation is, and why I can't have it. Is it beast to wish I had never been addicted to alcohol? Seems like I could rationally wish such an alternate reality existed. Although obviously it becomes a precursor to a subsequent (and obviously AV) thought - try drinking moderately again.
I think you've got it in the above, but IT weasels back in below.

It gets subtle and layered, but whether it is AV or not is a moot point. I have to deal with the world I woke up in this morning, and in that world I will never drink again because that is the only 100% guaranteed rational choice I have remaining to me with respect to alcohol.
"...choice I have..." or "...choice I HAD..." In other words, IT wants you to wonder ... DID you really make the choice yet?

Rational thoughts vs. Irrational thoughts are categories quite independent of My Voice vs. Addictive Voice.
Actually, "I will Never Drink Again" isn't quite as rational as it may seem at the time of making it. The purpose of the BP is to go up against the timeless Beast in a way both You and IT will feel it dying, and that forces the separation between You and IT in both thought and feeling.

You are saying "I will never drink again because ...[something/anything of your choice]."
I am saying I will never drink again NOT because of ANYTHING. I don't want IT to be able to chip away at ANY conditions to my BP - even the idea of the BP being the "only 100% guaranteed rational choice." I can hear it now. "You've been abstinent for decades. The rational choice is to just give it a try all by yourself and see if you can handle it. No one will know. You don't even remember what it felt like. Don't you at least want to find that out again?"
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
I can hear it now. "You've been abstinent for decades. The rational choice is to just give it a try all by yourself and see if you can handle it. No one will know. You don't even remember what it felt like. Don't you at least want to find that out again?"
AV is still AV now, or decades later, no difference whatsoever. Nonsensical is being all too human to discern that subtle differences in what is or isn't AV is moot at best, and best just dropped, and move on with life.

AV itself can never ever get anybody back to drinking. Only I can decide to pick up that drink, not my AV, and not my Beast. And only I can put that drink down and forever quit drinking too. Not my AV, and not my Beast.

AV is perfectly a normal thinking process, and not worth getting even the slightest concerns about, now, next week, next year, or even decades into the future, GT.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
AV is still AV now, or decades later, no difference whatsoever. Nonsensical is being all too human to discern that subtle differences in what is or isn't AV is moot at best, and best just dropped, and move on with life.

AV itself can never ever get anybody back to drinking. Only I can decide to pick up that drink, not my AV, and not my Beast. And only I can put that drink down and forever quit drinking too. Not my AV, and not my Beast.

AV is perfectly a normal thinking process, and not worth getting even the slightest concerns about, now, next week, next year, or even decades into the future, GT.
Don't forget about the RT in AVRT.
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