How to deal with this Faith-based sober community?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Originally Posted by nycguy83 
True, you have to pick your battles. There's a time and place for healthy debate.
But a specifically-secular recovery forum is as good a place as any to express one's dissatisfaction with the faith-based addiction treatment modality that is currently wildly dominant in the good 'ol US of A.
But a specifically-secular recovery forum is as good a place as any to express one's dissatisfaction with the faith-based addiction treatment modality that is currently wildly dominant in the good 'ol US of A.
Originally Posted by bigsombrero
Some say, "Don't bother them, after all, to each his own". I say that's bollux. A belief in God quite frankly insults the intelligence of all humanity, and I see this terrible crutch being used as an excuse and a solution day after day. It's quite frankly embarrassing to hear people talk this way, and I'm sad to see it so prevalent in a community that could benefit so much by turning to logic instead of fantasy.
You know, when I look at most any US minted coin, I find the motto "In God we trust". This has been on most coins since 1864. And it became the official motto of the United States since 1956.
God is not mentioned in the US constitution however... interesting.
God is indeed mentioned in the Declaration of Independence though... even more interesting.
I guess my point is that secularism is a relatively new movement historically and its no wonder the general environment for most anything to do with society machinations, including mainstream recovery, is God centered rather then not.
Me, I'm a Christian by faith, although my recovery is secular, so no problemo. Go figure, lol. I wasn't always Christian though, being agnostic back when, and so I have empathy and experience with and for both schools of thought.
I enjoy keeping an open and intelligent mind, along with a forthright and cheerful attitude. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, as we all know from our own undeniable experiences. Live and let live.
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Me, I'm a Christian by faith, although my recovery is secular, so no problemo. Go figure, lol.
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Location: Brisbane
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Originally Posted by bigsombrero
Hi all -
Been frustrated lately here at SR. Particularly the frighteningly abundant crowd who chime in with solutions like "Just put it in God's Hands" and "The Lord will look over you". Similarly, I find it just as annoying to hear it when someone says "My husband has lost the Lord and started drinking again", and then in flow the responses.
I find religion to be a terribly infantile affliction. I have not believed in God since I was able to think for myself (around 7 or 8 probably). After 7 months sober, I am flabbergasted and disappointed at all of the God talk in meetings and on boards like this. I am trying to continue to find rational thinkers and science-based information to help guide me through my recovery. Seems to be severely lacking.
Some say, "Don't bother them, after all, to each his own". I say that's bollux. A belief in God quite frankly insults the intelligence of all humanity, and I see this terrible crutch being used as an excuse and a solution day after day. It's quite frankly embarrassing to hear people talk this way, and I'm sad to see it so prevalent in a community that could benefit so much by turning to logic instead of fantasy.
I hate having to always sit on my hands when someone says "Just trust God" at meetings or here on SR. It's terrible, terrible advice. They might as well say "Just trust in the Frog-Unicorn, it will guide you". It's akin to saying to just do nothing and hope for the best.
Since I find this advice so harmful, I want to at least reach out from time to time with a link or passage from an atheist perspective that might help someone. Unfortunately it never works, I'm brow-beaten for it and told to come here and post my kooky thoughts instead.
How can I take any advice from my community seriously when it's all so polluted with ancient superstitions? Aaargh. Frustrated.
Been frustrated lately here at SR. Particularly the frighteningly abundant crowd who chime in with solutions like "Just put it in God's Hands" and "The Lord will look over you". Similarly, I find it just as annoying to hear it when someone says "My husband has lost the Lord and started drinking again", and then in flow the responses.
I find religion to be a terribly infantile affliction. I have not believed in God since I was able to think for myself (around 7 or 8 probably). After 7 months sober, I am flabbergasted and disappointed at all of the God talk in meetings and on boards like this. I am trying to continue to find rational thinkers and science-based information to help guide me through my recovery. Seems to be severely lacking.
Some say, "Don't bother them, after all, to each his own". I say that's bollux. A belief in God quite frankly insults the intelligence of all humanity, and I see this terrible crutch being used as an excuse and a solution day after day. It's quite frankly embarrassing to hear people talk this way, and I'm sad to see it so prevalent in a community that could benefit so much by turning to logic instead of fantasy.
I hate having to always sit on my hands when someone says "Just trust God" at meetings or here on SR. It's terrible, terrible advice. They might as well say "Just trust in the Frog-Unicorn, it will guide you". It's akin to saying to just do nothing and hope for the best.
Since I find this advice so harmful, I want to at least reach out from time to time with a link or passage from an atheist perspective that might help someone. Unfortunately it never works, I'm brow-beaten for it and told to come here and post my kooky thoughts instead.
How can I take any advice from my community seriously when it's all so polluted with ancient superstitions? Aaargh. Frustrated.
i agree, partly, im an atheist at heart but dont think "religion" can be pigeon-holed. Behind the stories and theories i do think there are some parts that are useful. Ive taken some positive points from the Bible, but had to sift through what i think is a lot of BS.
Nurturing positivity and love, i think , is the basis of all religion, its peoples interpretation thats the problem. I grew up in a strict mormon household but threw it all away when i saw how false some of its followers were.
I went through a stage of being VERY anti-religion but overtime ive come to think that the more you push something away, the more focused you become on it so learning to live with the religious is a more healthier and positive way to be.
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Sobriety is Traditional
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Originally Posted by tehmazzyland
I'm more of a flying spaghetti monster person. Because frog unicorns are clearly just silly.
Last night, I looked over the AVRT quick lesson. The intolerance expressed reminded me of early AA history (the sixty-one rules), but at least I better understand those who use the RR program to stay sober.
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Originally Posted by coldfusion
The intolerance expressed reminded me of early AA history (the sixty-one rules), but at least I better understand those who use the RR program to stay sober.
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
But had I shared my beliefs I would have missed the point. The point was one heart to another, one hand to another, one brief moment that made a difference, regardless of the words that were uttered.
Originally Posted by soberlicious
At the risk of sounding fluffy...which I am not...
Originally Posted by soberlicious
...the only true power in this world is love.
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Let me cast my lot with the fluffy crowd. And to a large extent with the RR crowd. But definitely not with intolerance, regardless of whether it arrives under the banner of religion or atheism.
In a way I pity intolerant people. My view is probably skewed by my experience with addiction: when I was at my lowest, I became the most judgmental, condescending, and cynical toward other people. The worse I felt about myself, the more I railed against him, her, and all those other people, too. So when I see that kind of behavior in others, I suspect it usually comes from a pretty unhappy place.
If there's one thing better than being at peace with my own beliefs, it's being at peace with the beliefs of others. I'm an atheist who will gratefully accept prayers sent my way. Seems to me they usually come from a warm, happy place. Might even be fluffy, who knows...
Amen to that.
In a way I pity intolerant people. My view is probably skewed by my experience with addiction: when I was at my lowest, I became the most judgmental, condescending, and cynical toward other people. The worse I felt about myself, the more I railed against him, her, and all those other people, too. So when I see that kind of behavior in others, I suspect it usually comes from a pretty unhappy place.
If there's one thing better than being at peace with my own beliefs, it's being at peace with the beliefs of others. I'm an atheist who will gratefully accept prayers sent my way. Seems to me they usually come from a warm, happy place. Might even be fluffy, who knows...
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Live and let live.
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
If there's one thing better than being at peace with my own beliefs, it's being at peace with the beliefs of others.
Not sure how to deal with intolerance except to live compassionately. It's a huge problem in our society.
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
I agree, but I am finding lately I am less tolerant of intolerance though. I am definitely not at peace with some of the beliefs of others that I was formerly able to simply dismiss as not my own. Case in point, there is a biker bar in town that I pass frequently and there is a bike parked out front with "white america" emblazoned across the windshield. This is increasingly getting under my skin. I would like to poke my finger in this tough guy's face and ask him wtf is wrong with him. What kind of an idiot rides around with this stupid phrase which is obviously meant to incite? Oh well...let it go...take a different way home...out of sight out of mind. None of that sits well with me anymore. If I run the guy's bike over with my jeep, then I realize that I am no different than he.
Not sure how to deal with intolerance except to live compassionately. It's a huge problem in our society.
Not sure how to deal with intolerance except to live compassionately. It's a huge problem in our society.
Yeah...what you said. We have, in our recent past, an extraordinary example of the dilemma being discussed with Nazi-Germany. Live and let live? Really? At what point do we, as outsiders, step in? To stay within the example, pastor Martin Niemoller's famous quote springs to mind:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me."
and yet, I am not an activist. It's not fear or even uncertainty that stays my hand - though there is certainly at least some uncertainty and possibly even some fear... it's just an underlying sense that someone else needs the opportunity to deal with this more than I do at this stage of my life.
Sort of like when I was in AA early in recovery and cleaning ashtrays after the meetings. Three months in my sponsor suggested that I stop cleaning ashtrays and let someone newer than me have a chance.
Anyway, no answers just a kindred spirit scratching his head in good company.
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BigS - I am not only a theist but a Christian. I am also a rational being that got sober first using cognitive behavioral therapy principles. Although I have a strong faith belief, I feel I can learn so much from others who believe differently. This is an incredibly big world with so much we don't understand. If I can find comfort, strength and sobriety in the way others are getting their lives on track, I gobble it up.
My relationship with God has helped ME get sober but whatever works for others is fine. The fact is, all of us will talk about the things most dear to our hearts and what helps us the most.
I would encourage you to read with an open mind and make allowance for what is working for others. My promise is to do the same and not try to force my beleif system down your throat.
Before i had any faith, I used to get so mad when someone would say "I am praying for you." I thought they were looking down on me. Now I see it was a gesture of care and compassion.
Namaste!
My relationship with God has helped ME get sober but whatever works for others is fine. The fact is, all of us will talk about the things most dear to our hearts and what helps us the most.
I would encourage you to read with an open mind and make allowance for what is working for others. My promise is to do the same and not try to force my beleif system down your throat.
Before i had any faith, I used to get so mad when someone would say "I am praying for you." I thought they were looking down on me. Now I see it was a gesture of care and compassion.
Namaste!
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