soberlicious

Yeah, since you asked...I believe that "not now" is simply placating the Beast. You can do that, but in fluffing the pillow as GT says, you stay in that weird place with the beast instead of popping through to freedom (as described in Non's post).

jkb

"I will never now drink" is my current plan of action. Thank you Robby for your insight. You are quite correct in stating it needs to work for me. Never ever is probably in my future.... Thank you for the thoughtful response.

Fini-
I compleatly get where you are coming from. That is how I feel. I am studying some mindfulness also right now... maybe it is sneaking in...lol

Sober and GT-
Am I placating the beast? Possibly... Maybe I am not yet ready for all out war in my head. That did not work well for me the last time. I truly appreciate you both so much.

So for now the plan stays as is I suppose. Lots to think about as always.... You guys are all amazing, Jess

Nonsensical

Jess, did you notice our patterns?

Paul: accepts AVRT, refuses to make BP, drinks, makes BP
Jess: accepts AVRT, makes BP, drinks, refuses to make BP



We're both sober today. I'm putting it in the 'win' column.

soberlicious

Jess, I'm only answering from an AVRT point of view based on the technique used in the book. You are free, of course, to do as you please.

For me, it was a choice between battles (tho small) that went on forever, or an all out war that ended it all for good. My choice may not be yours and that's fine.

You are a strong woman, like me, and I'm sure you don't take offense to the suggestions offered. You are smart and introspective. You'll be just fine.

SoberKnitter

I know the war in the head that you are describing, because I experienced it all the time in the past. This time (the last time!), using AVRT, it doesn't feel like a war. The AV screams and yells and tries to manipulate, but it's not really a war because I'm not engaging, if that makes sense. It's full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

jkb

Non-
So true... had I never attempted that BP sooo early on...lol. Oh I have no idea why I ever drank. Or why I cant trust myself at all now.

Soberlicious-
You are 100% right I NEVER (theres that word again :rotfxko ) take offense to anyones advice. I am constantly second guessing myself for the damn wine 3 weeks ago. I have no confidence. Silly as it sounds I think that right now I would be going to war with a beast with a gun and I have some sad little knife. Deep down I suppose I know that is not true but, I sure feel that way.
SK-
I definitely know what you are saying... thanks

Jess

Nonsensical

You might just be over-thinking it.

soberlicious

Doubt is AV...Just sayin' (lol miss you Stu)

soberlicious

Yes, I know that. I don't feel it necessary to jump to your defense if someone challenges your thoughts or ideas, nor I do feel it necessary sugar coat with you. You know why? because you are very capable and strong, you are not weak and in need of "help". You are wise in asking for straight talk and for information from those who have gone before you, and you consider these ideas as you move forward. As I said before, you will be just fine.

fini

soberlicious,
with all due respect, i'll disagree with the implication in your post that needing help is weakness. whether that's help or "help".

if i could have understood that sooner in my life and well enough (viscerally enough) to act on it, i would have saved myself a whole lot of messy years.

soberlicious

Fini, with all due respect, I did not nor have I ever implied that asking for help in a time of crisis is a weakness. In fact, I have posted before that asking for help is a sign of strength. The reason I put help in quotations is because there is often a tendency to try and rescue the addicted or make sure above all else they never feel uncomfortable. It is neither necessary nor "helpful" to do so.

I had a whole lot of messy years too, so you're not alone there. If I had had the right kind of "help", I likely wouldn't have tried to take myself out as the only plausible escape.

fini

ah, i see the kind of "help" you're talking about. yes, agreed.
yuck; the kind that just ultimately lets you know you're incompetent and really don't know what's good for you.

asking before it gets to crisis seems smarter than waiting for things to get drastically emergent. watching this play out in my parents right now, very elderly and not only not asking but refusing any and all suggestions.one of my my brothers and SIL had to simply pack up my dad and take him to the hospital yesterday with a high fever and raging infection, meaning my rather dementia-suffering mom had to be "made" to agree to have my daughter stay overnight and...still, nobody needs any help. ever. grrrr.

damn family trait!

i salute anyone who gets past that!

soberlicious

LOL...well, I remember my 97 year old grandmother not wanting help, and also not wanting to give up her car keys, have things done for her etc.etc. She was the matriarch of a very large family and I understood and respected her resistance. It's a tough spot to be in, for everyone.

jkb is past any crisis stage. She is refining her understanding of things. Information is what she needs; she doesn't need to be taken care of. (As always, just my thoughts).

jkb

Yeah must agree with Soberlicious... I am not in crisis... Yay I am being a wimp who is afraid of a BP I guess...lol. All that doubt is just AV. Thanks Sober...

Non- Me overthinking.. no way... J/K. Sooo true. I need to quit feeling nervous bc of my really poor choice to drink a few weeks back.

Truth is I am so happy sober. I really dont want to go back... my beast does though. I am postponing the BP is all. Eventually I must commit to never. AND NEVER CHANGE MY MIND.

soberlicious

You post in the secular connections, that means you're far from a wimp. LOL

Received

I swear if I could reach through my monitor I'd give you a big 'ol hug. You are so darn genuine.

Nonsensical

I don't know too many wimps who strut proudly down Main Street like you, clubbing your AV like it was a baby fur seal.

SoberKnitter

No, don't club it! I prefer ridicule. It's much more humane.

I think the different ways we conceptualize our beasts are interesting. I see mine as a whiny, manipulative brat, so I respond to it that way. When I see a kid throwing a fit in the cereal aisle at the grocery store, it reminds me of my beast.

I read some years ago that there are four different styles that manipulative people use: intimidation, interrogation, becoming aloof and playing the victim. I'm noticing that my AV uses the same tactics. You make a person stop by pointing out what they are doing, (e.g. "You are trying to make me feel guilty."), but with the AV all I have to do is recognize the tactic.

jkb

Recieved and Non-
Thank you both so much....

SK-
Definitely different concepts. I see mine as sneaky and predatory...crazy.

(((Soberlicious)))

You guys and girls are the best support ever..... soooo much.

Jess

Newatthis34

Hello again all, don't know how many of you are still here that replied to my thread way back. Don't know if anyone remembers me even!

Anyways I'd love to say I've been sober since but the truth is I haven't. Granted I haven't been as demented as usual, binging every day etc, been sober for two/three weeks but then I've still had some fair ol' sessions here and there. And of course struggling with the admittedly insane idea that I can moderate which I have done on some nights (with difficulty).

I've still been reading here every day, wishing I could do what others have been able to do and quit. I want to write down what I've learnt so far, in no particular order of importance. As usual insights gratefully received.

1. I cannot now or ever in the future moderate my drinking long-term. I may succeed here and there but it only creates false sense of security which inevitably leads to the usual failure and cycle. I know this.
2. I want to quit alcohol for good.
3. I'm afraid I cannot do it.
4. I think I can do it but keep procrastinating about when to really start
5. If I do it I will lose friends. That in itself doesn't worry me in the long term but initially makes it hard.
6. It's a challenge to have enough self-respect to do this while feeling so much self-loathing because of my addiction.
7. I need to stop thinking that my rationality can make this problem go away.
8. Although an atheist I need a spiritual dimension through meditation to; (a) give myself some self-worth (b) see the transience of cravings etc.
9. I'm at a crisis point because I have acknowledged my problem but as yet have been unable to do anything about it.
10. I need to stop comparing myself to others and paddle my own canoe.

Thanks.