Ananda

The thing I like most about connie is that she "suspends her disbelief" She takes joy in stuff like a kid...it's awsome. They put on a robe to cover her back (no one got her her pajamas) and we laughed about the "cape" and her being "super connie". She talks about visits she has from her dogs...Scooby (who is still "alive") and ebner (who was put down 3 years ago) and her husband (who died the same time as my dad and how we bonded). I'm just needing to talk about this stuff...to me she is detaching from time...I asked her and she said they visit her every day. Some call this "disorentation" and it is...it's coming unglued from the time...it's a good thing...but it does make it difficult to negotiate "in the "now"". I reached out to others who are her "friends" but not getting anywhere with that.

I think she is doing ok spirit wise. I'll work today on "logistics of today" to be sure she has a way home from the hospital and help to get to the 2 doctor appointments this week. She has given so much to the world she deserves some help from all of us who have been a part of her life. This sounds so "martyer like" and I don't mean it that way...it is just that we have to step forward and selfishly I would feel wrong if I didn't do what I can do.

I'm not completely on track about all this...I just know that I need to do what I can for someone who really believed in me when others did not. I need to be there for her. There will be limits cause I have to do what I have to do at work and home to keep things going. It's complicated...

Anyways, I'm sober today and trying to do the things that I believe in. For today that is good enough.

Nands

Ananda

I'm freaking out a bit. They have moving my friend to a hospic home...which means she is not going to do the chemo any more. I'm ok with that..but she sounds a bit down. I didn't go to visit tonight cause the move only happened this afternoon and she had tons of "pretend friends" visiting her when they heard she was moving to Hospic. I called her and she sounded tired and down. I will go tomarrow in the early afternoon to visit her.

I'm ok with that she is where she is. I think it's all ok. But I have to get my game face on again tomarrow and just be there for her. Frankly that sucks cause I want to let the hurt out. That said, I actually feel and believe that she is just turning a corner...we keep talking about seeing others from the corner of your eye...I don't believe in "god" (and she does in some form) but I don't believe in an "end" just a different expereince of existance.

I'm going to leave early enough to buy her a crazy bright and over the top scarf or boa. I hope it will be something she can enjoy despite the circumstances, but if she can't thats ok too.

Its just wierd...it isn't about me, it isn't about what society expects..it's about being there for her. But social expectations and my pain seem to be a struggle despite my beliefs

Anyways ... I have to just focus on what matters to me and to her and go through this.

Sorry to be a bummer

Nands

Ananda

Hi,

I'm reviving this thread.

It's strange that I feel so much more comfortable in my "non-program" recovery now.

Today was a bit tougher than I've had this month. I think alot was because we lost our power last night and had a very hot house. I didn't get much sleep. I go to my first Zazen with my old group (minus my teacher, who died a few years back). I am excited, yet a bit aprehensive. the sitting is getting more "natural" (for lack of a better word), but I'm amazed how much whirl I have in my head after years of only sporatic sitting. Throw tired on top of a whirling brain and it gets a bit too easy to get wrapped up in silly stuff.

It is a bit difficult to not get nervous cause today hasn't been as "good" as the last month...but I know I have to get use to ups and downs...and having a less than perfect day doesn't mean I'm doomed to slide down into some new pit from H*ll. It just means it hasn't been my favorite day LOL like yeah! such is life.

OK...I'm going to get to bed early today and hope to get to sit in the morning. I let myself do "other stuff" this morning ...might be part of why I was a bit off.

raku

Ananda,
hi ! I've been reading thro' some of the older thread....It's interesting to me as I am feeling out my way to a new experience of sobriety. I remember again what my father said to me, out of the blue from his bed, a few days before he died...a message for both of us...
"If I didn't think I was going to get better, it wouldn't be worth it ."
We didn't have a chance to discuss this life attitude before he slipped away, but I am sure it was not just a statement of blind faith, or the power of positive thinking...or a "program". He was talking about his self-knowingness and acceptance of the Now in his life. No lectures or pontification, just a simple statement of the reason to live here on the planet Earth....to become better human beings. So Zazen away !

Ananda

Yesterday was my day to get my vivitrol shot. I had some trouble with thoughts of not taking it so I could drink...nothing real intense...the thoughts came up and I put them aside, but it made me nervous.

I was excited at 3pm when I left to get the shot...cause it would soon be over and I would feel "safe".

I got to the pharmacy to pick it up and my insurance wouldn't let them fill it. it has to be mail ordered through a specific pharmacy .... so I will not get the shot till Tuesday or so. I really let this throw me and was fighting panic...all my fear came up that perhaps I would drink if I didn't get the shot (this is unrealistic because the last shot is still probably working...I sort of knew that, but my mind was on a roll).

I went home and thought I should just take the pill form every day till I could get the shot cause then I would feel "safer". I started looking for the pills. I can't find them. I am growing more and more paniced, convinced I will go get a bottle if I don't find them.

I start digging through my completely packed bathroom closet searching for where I might have put the pills. I am checking an open container with scarves in it thinking it might have fallen in there. I feel something...I think I know what it is...I pull it out...

It's a full bottle of vodka.

There was a pause..probably only about 5 seconds...then I start yelling out to my son "emergency, emergency...come quick". He came running...I handed him the bottle saying "dump it dump it dump it....oh my god, oh my god, oh my god..." He dumped it and I was safe.

I'm sort of glad it happened now. It took a few hours to settle down and stop crying and stomping my feet with frustration at how the world was against me (LOL). But once I settled I realized I don't have to worry about being unable to make it till I get the shot. I will be ok . I will still take the shot. I will take any and every advantage I can find and believe in to insure my sobriety.

Today is going well. Did some gardening and now am going to work on a grocery list, menues and cleaning the house.

Ananda

I had my lawyer appointment today. It amazes me how strong the thought that I should be buying a bottle is before and after something like this...also amazing is how briefly the thought hangs around

I've been asked by a councelor how I am doing with "positive thinking" and "honesty" etc.....

Well you know, right now I am just becoming aware of what kinds of thoughts I have and how often I "practice to decieve". I don't see a whole lot of improvement in those areas (some...just more awareness of the lack of than actual strong changes). I guess I think that is appropriete at this point. First I have to see the problem. I am taking baby steps at "do not try to mislead or decieve" (not out and out lying so much). But I just see how much I have left to work on.

OK...it's bed time....

Ananda

Hello all

I think I will need to start posting on a regualr basis. I've been doing a lot of recovery helpful activities that have taken up most of my time the past 3 months. However my continuing care group has blocked me from giong there until I agree to some statements about myself and my need for a particular recovery program, so I need an outlet to share about sobriety journey, self discovery, and my personal movie channel (LOL ... the drama I create...it can be quite entertaining).

So...I am mostly utilizing my Soto Zen Buddhist "stuff" to diligently work on myself, my life, my funky brain....all of wich relates to my trying not to fall asleep at the wheel..which could potentially lead to drinking which would lead to the ultimate unawakening of drunk thoughts actions and behaviors.

I find some readings and thoughts and ideas from the continuing care based on another program can be complimenterary to my "buddhist studies" and Zazen....even when a premise didn't "fit" ... exploring the how and why of that helped my understanding of myself and my path grow. Now I will need to be sure that the sobriety aspect of my life changes stays in the forefront of my mind by other methods and I think this forum is probably a good fit.

My past teacher died several years ago, so there is not practicing group or individual in my town of my specific linage..however there is what has been refered to as an "eclectic" group that meets once a week that has many of those who sat with my past teacher still in attendance. It is going well, though I miss the laughter and directness of Leon. I missed zazen the last 2 weeks and that isn't good...

I have been taking monthly vivitrol shots and it has been a real blessing. Unfortunately, this last shot (5 days ago) has ended up with some extreme pain issues. It's possible I won't be able to continue with the shots. I could do the pills, but the whole beauty of the shots was the not having to make a daily decision to not drink...I just made it once a month. Since this is all basically "head stuff"...If the doctor says we should stop the shots I will just take the plunge to no medications. once a day pills actually sabatage the whole plan...I will simply continue to make the decision to not drink once a month and consider it a done deal (since it really is a head thing)...see if I can keep from the great debate on a daily, hourly or sitatuion to situation basis.

Taking care of my life - my home, my dogs, my son, my work, my yard and flowers, my body. Very time consuming and very much the grist of life. I keep saying my my my ....I don't "own" these things..they are just what is present in my life and the next indicated thing is to take care of these things.

so today I am off to pull out the rug and paint the bedroom. It is the next indicated thing to do since my brother and mom are coming next weekend to refloor that room. I will also have to do the next indicated thing of menues, grocery shoping, plant care, and dinner....daily practice to take care of my body (and my dogs' and son's bodies) and to take care of the property that I have temporarily so that it is in good shape for the next person who comes along )

I hope that everyone is having a nice morning...or whatever time of day it is where you are

Ananda

Well...another full weekend. Of course not everything got done LOL...on we plod!

I'm a bit obsessed about the continuing care incident. It just keeps coming back up in my head and I keep trying to "figure out" what I will do, say, etc. if they call to check why I'm not going in the room....sigh...Guess I need to be willing to look at that I am hurt/angry...feel a bit betrayed. Part of me feels like it's no big deal..not anything different..but obviously my mind feels differerntly the pesky criter won't quit bringing it up!

OK...it's high ho time....I need to get on earlier tomarrow!

Ananda

I’m trying to get use to another new routine now. My son has started school and we share a car and some cooking…so adjustments are being made. I thought about habits this week. Habits are something I don’t always notice until I can’t follow the same pattern…something puts a stop to it…

I brush my teeth most days now…if I am running late and it doesn’t fall in its normal place in the routine..I notice it as I’m walking out the door and am frustrated. Sometimes it can be the distraction of the dogs…teeth brushing comes after taking my meds and the chewable vitamin..Which is at the last minute because the vitamin makes the coffee taste bad. It’s after the meds cause I hate swallowing them after a fresh taste of toothpaste (I don’t like the taste of tooth paste). So if the dogs bark to go out or have water just as I’m taking my meds..in the rush to get out the door I may forget to brush my teeth.

That made me think about my drinking. My drinking is a lot of things. There is a physical reaction to alcohol (for me) when I drink it…I do have a craving … I don’t have a stop button. Then there is an emotional element…It gives me a break from caring too much about things. It allows me to speak about stuff I don’t feel comfortable about. It did lots of things for me that could draw me back. But the hardest part may very well be that it was a habit…

People who don’t drink can sometimes relate to this about abuse of cigarettes, food, internet, or any number of other habits. It just seems natural to have a drink (drunk) after mom leaves, on Saturday watching the dogs, before going to work, when my sister in law calls, ……. Sure I drank all the time, but it was partly habit thought..that became habit action.

I’ve broken a lot of those associations in the last 3 months, made good progress. But habit action and habit thought are very interesting. The very reason that habits and patterns can be helpful is the very thing that makes them oh so dangerous. After a period of time they happen without thinking consciously. That is why the concept of living my life “AWAKE” is so important to me now. Being aware is necessary in order to break a pattern or habit. Anytime that I go in auto pilot mode I have a tendency to slide into patterns that may lead to drinking…or thinking about drinking which is the start of a problem for me. Now it’s weird cause at the same time…I know that when my patterns change and stay changed…then my auto pilot is different action..yet…it lulls me asleep in a different way. Then, because it is not my pattern to drink…I can become vulnerable to a stray thought when I am not paying attention…the sudden idea that maybe a drink isn’t a big deal..the casual drink when offered….just a different type of unawareness that can creep in.

Well…that was what I thought about this morning. Now I need to get my butt in gear …doggy number one to the vet today, then son to school, then me to work, then dinner, dishes and paint the trim in the bedroom….
Anyone else seeing a relationship between habitual behavior and dealing with their alcoholism?

Obladi

Ananda, I recognize this. In fact, this is the way I described it to my boyfriend when I was trying to get him to understand the trouble I was in, "My habit has become a Habit."

Most recently, I have become aware of my rather ritualistic ways with alcohol. I think they were always there, but they have progressed to the point of being pointedly habitual. Get home, go straightaway to the kitchen and pour the first drink. Keep an eye on the content as the night progresses, note cheerfully that I'm not at a half-bottle yet. This means that I still have my allotment available. Driving home from work, if there is no booze at home, debate myself about stopping while at the same time figuring out which shop I haven't hit in the last week. Stop, purchase liquor. *Phew,* now I don't have to argue with myself for another three days.

So it's just recently started to truly sink in that if anything is going to change I absolutely must do things differently. In the wee hours of Sunday morning, instead of finishing the bottle, I poured the balance out. This morning, instead of saying nothing to my boyfriend, I told him I had nothing to drink for the entire day yesterday. Not praise-seeking, just shining some light on the subject.

I read your post just before venturing out to do errands this evening and thought "yep, sure can relate to the habit biz." Shortly after I was on my way, I noticed myself slipping into that no-brain thinking about stopping for booze and quite deliberately took note. Didn't judge, just noticed. Perhaps foolishly, I then drove out of my way and parked in front of the liquor store. Honestly, I wasn't altogether sure whether I would saunter in and make my usual purchase. I didn't.

On the way home, I did it again! There was more urgency in the need to act on the habit, but I only went so far as to make the effort to find an open store (there were fewer, it being Monday night and a holiday an all), but once I was there, I didn't even "have" to park. I drove right through the parking lot and out again.

Thanks for sharing that thought.

jkb

Ananda,

I too was really glad to read your post. Habits are tough to break. Now after 6 months I am beginning to make new habits. My latest one is smoothie drinking in the morning. Then the other day I ran out of fruit...... Crisis.. Which is when I realized that almost all things once they become a part of my routine are tough to break.

My hope is that I am making a habit of not drinking. Anyway thanks for this,
Jess

Ananda

Just checking in....

Things are "ok" and sobriety continues.

I seem to be at my best when I'm not reliant on my relationships with others, but I value the relationships I have and have had. It's a bit harder to stay in today when I miss old friendships and see the ending of some relationships coming into view, but I have to remember that that is not something that I have control of..things change, people die, people leave and it really isn't personal (despite how it feels). This just is how it is at the moment...

If I sound negative...sorry... it's just that life has ups and downs and what I really find is I can buy into it or I can recognize it as just a part of "life in the realm of forms" (as those I listen to would say).

Mostly things are really positive...but there is some sadness as I look at losses looming on the horizon of people I care due to the natural sickness and death that comes with our birth to this life. It's easier now because sober I have been able to live with the feelings and simply enjoy people for while they are here. It's a bit weird to post here, but my best friend is AA...but she is someone who has totally always excepted that I follow a different path...but she is dying so it's been a mixed bag of emotions. She has made it 5 months longer than expected. I would never have made the decisions she made...yet I am inspired. She has actually been happy more than most people as she has worked through this. The differences in methods of sobriety or religious belief have not mattered. We are just "friends". It's hard to explain but it just isn't about all the crap I build up in my head...just 2 people loving each other through this journey.

OK...weird post...

Like I said things are overall ok...really looking forward to a few days off with gift surprises with my son and 2 dogs. Life really seems ok these days...lots of joy and a sprinkle (share) of pain.

Nothing more to say..rambled too much LOL

miyako

Lots of people stop drinking and even drugging without any kind of program whatsoever. They just make a decision and *STOP* on their own hook. In the old days, this would be called "will power." But that is an old-fashioned and almost taboo concept anymore.

And it doesn't make good popular reading for the general public. The public wants to hear about rehab and AA and intervention and stuff like that. They also like to hear about magic pills that people can take to cure them of their addictions. While all these things exist, they don't help a damn unless the person has decided they must stop, no matter what the cost. And it leaves me wondering if they needed to pay the cost (for rehab or pills or whatnot) to recover or if they only THOUGHT they did.

I stopped without pills, without rehab, or psych or AA or even an experienced friend to see me through. I took a lot of my ideas from RR, but I didn't follow their program or even read their book past the first chapter or two. Lots of people seem to react to me as if this is unusual and I am either a liar or a miracle case. But actually a lot of people do this.

I don't believe in God, but if I did, I would wholeheartedly believe this:

"The Kingdom of God is within you."

Everything you need to stop your addiction is inside you.

freshstart57

I just read this in another thread - While this might not be true for others, it certainly rings the bell for me.

Ananda

Thought I might revive this thread ... I read through some of it and it helped me.

Connie died over a year ago, a couple of months after my last post here. It has taken a lot of time, but I am in a better "frame of mind" about it than I was when it happened.

I stayed sober quite some time, but I have drank twice since Connie's death. Not because she died but due to my lack of ability to deal with many feelings over a number of things (not just her death).

I'm currently still taking the vivitrol shot that seems to help me, even though it really is mostly an "oz" placebo (lol). Since I'm from Kansas I appreciated the Oz reference.

I'll take any edge I can get. The cost is a bit high for something that I agree, is just a symbol of commitment. But I'm not perfect and having a symbol of commitment is still something I feel a need for.

I've struggled hard to maintain a connection on SR (and to maintain some sober friendships that are available to me when I let go of my "issues" about Connie's death). Non-"program" based friendships are the one thing that seems to give me some sort of support toward my own growth and continued sobriety.

I'll admit that I'm reaching out mostly cause things got pretty rough here in the last 2 months (Flood and loss of property etc.). Mostly I try to do things on my own and not bother others. Helping others is probably the best thing I can do to create happiness in my own life, but I've struggled for many years now with not being able to be there for others because I'm so self absorbed.

I'm rambling, but I wanted to revive this thread in case there are others who might want to talk about their own "non-program" recovery. I only check in about once a week, but would love to hear from others and walk this path with them!

greens

Hey Ananda,
thanks for reviving this thread, it was really great to read through it all.

silentrun

Hi Ananda. It looks like a very interesting thread. When I have some time I am going to read the whole thing. I don't have a program either. When I quit I just up and quit. It didn't occur to me to get one. After a couple weeks I did decide that if I couldn't do it on my own I would go to AA. I consider SR as a program in a way. Besides getting support and great advice it makes me feel like I am part of a community and I feel like if I drink it does matter to others. I was a big secret drinker and I felt like if no one knew somehow it didn't count.

fini

I'll admit that I'm reaching out mostly cause things got pretty rough here in the last 2 months (Flood and loss of property etc.). Mostly I try to do things on my own and not bother others. Helping others is probably the best thing I can do to create happiness in my own life, but I've struggled for many years now with not being able to be there for others because I'm so self absorbed.

ananda,
what you write here made sense to me a long time ago, and i lived pretty much like that. only reaching out when things get rough, getting more and more self-absorbed and unable to escape that spiral, thinking that i didn't want to "bother" others.

since being sober a while, i've sure found that this is backwards.
by getting engaged and connected on a consistent basis, i can be part of an ongoing exchange of care and support and fun and...turns out when things get rough i have a network of sorts, some relationships here and in "real" life that are a net...

waiting to connect til things get rough hasn't been the least bit helpful to me in enlarging my circle of connection, my ability to "be there" for others at times, my willingness to reach out when i'm having a hard time...all that trying to do every thing on my own really did for me was to isolate me into more self-absorption and misery.

i'm not saying it's been easy.

but it's doable.
i'm sorry to hear things have been so rough for you. i'm glad you're here.

Ananda

"since being sober a while, i've sure found that this is backwards.
by getting engaged and connected on a consistent basis, i can be part of an ongoing exchange of care and support and fun and...turns out when things get rough i have a network of sorts, some relationships here and in "real" life that are a net"

I have to say that part of my reluctance to reach out to others is due to my own particular experience with people and their ability to respond.

I have to focus on those who I have known that have always stood by me (and I believe/hope I have stood by too). It's just that it is only the small percent.

I also have to focus on those who know little or nothing about me, nothing about my alcoholism, don't share a religious, political or other relationship with me ... yet they stepped up to help.

I find it important to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think there are times when I have been the "chaff" and times when I have been the "wheat". Sometimes I do acts of kindness and care about others because they are like me, agree with me, do what I think they should do. That is, to me, the lower path. It's still good, but it has limits. Other times I do these same helpful things out of our common bond of simply being human and don't require any belief or action... Sometimes I act because I care and not because someone is doing it right or whatever...

What I have found is that I do have a true network of friends and then a group of associates, and then people who are just fellow members of the human race and know it. I'm not explaining this well ... but it is pretty important. If I don't understand and accept these different types of relationships I will be continually disappointed and become ever more cynical.

After the flood on May 4th, the first thing that happened was that strangers and neibors stepped in to get through that first 24 hours. After that people who only knew me because they worked with me ... became the boots on the ground to get as much saved as possible and other things as well.

When I participated in sobriety programs, I had this sort of support, but it stopped when I didn't attend certain meetings or instigate phone calls and push for a connection. It was pretty much ... you are one of us or you are not ... if you are not ... we have no connection.

It's only been in the last 2 months that a number of people have told me that Connie was the best example of her program they had ever had the privilege to meet. Yet they were not there for her when she was dying... she was the pariah of the group because she didn't only help and maintain friendships with those who followed a particular party line ... she simply was a friend and gave freely. Connie and I were as different as different can be in every way. Yet we supported each other and it was never a matter of "if you aren't doing it the way I do it.... I can't help you". Wether it was cleaning up the yard or staying sober ... we were there for each other. Connie never did drink and had over 25 years (not sure how long after that). But I know she thought about it sometimes...and we could talk and support each other.

I'm going on and on ... but what I'm trying to say here is that it isn't true that if you connect with people regularly they will be there for you. Some will, and those are the connections to focus on . But at some point you will be on your own. I have to know that I am the one who has to live my life and that separating the Chaff from the Wheat is important ... but even that isn't quite right. I have to love the Chaff as well. It is what it is and it isn't my place to judge them harshly.

Enough said....

fini

but what I'm trying to say here is that it isn't true that if you connect with people regularly they will be there for you. Some will, and those are the connections to focus on . But at some point you will be on your own.

i agree, ananda, that it's not true if you connect with people regularly they will be there for you..
nor did i say that they are.
what i'm saying is that in connecting i have a net, a bunch of people to say "ouch, things aren't good with me" to; no guarantee that a particular person is always there for me. no guarantee i'm always there for someone else, either. no doubt there are spectacular "down-lettings" all around.

i wish i had put it more simply; what i meant to say is this: don't wait til things get rough to post.
post more frequently, get involved with other conversations here and in that way become more part of the cyber-community here so that when things get rough you're already a participating part.
that's what's been helpful to me in mitigating the inevitable being-on-my-own when it's a rough time.