Non-program recovery
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Just a short note.... I'm still sober
Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results has been key to my decision to go outside "traditional methods".
I will share a bit about this...but don't want to go on too long...
I'm doing a "home" medical detox...with access to medical help and checking in with the doctor about anything that seems a bit off.
I'm not having my mom here, or having supervision in a direct way. I keep thinking about "learned helplessness" which seems to have had me trapped for some years now...the idea that "I can't" that if there isn't someone there monitoring me I will fail. Mom can detox me, but it doesn't work long haul and always feels a bit like an unhealthy dependency that isn't really working...I can ask for help, but in the end I have to have a committment, strength or something that doesn't require another entity to push through the hard times.
I'm not real comfortable about a medical detox because it makes it easier, and eventually I have to change or it won't stick...I guess it's just a few days without alchohol with a plan to continue after the medication. If alchoholism is partly the drinking "habit" or possibly a physical need...this will give me a few days to get beyond that part without a "supervising agent"...I just don't know...but it is something I haven't tried (treatment does not medicate when I have gone...it's go off everything).
I've over analized this, but I'm still stuck on the idea of "do something different" and find something to make it work that isn't dependent on approval and watching eyes. There is nothing wrong with using those tools if they work for you...sober is sober...but it hasn't worked for me in the past and I need to do something new.
One thing I wanted to mention...My mom is going to the Antartic at 84 years old! She leaves next week. This inspires me! I want to be like that. And I want her to not be "saving" her 3 sick kids lol ... makes me more committed short term to being in good shape this week so she can go enjoy without a burden in her heart.
Additionally, I'm doing well at work (from a professional view...they don't see the destruction of my drinking yet)...and adding to my contributions at work matter.
OK...I screwed up and talked too much. The medication makes me talkative and motivated to do stuff...house clean, laundry done and lawyer work almost caught up. I just don't want this to be temporarily because I'm on medication...I want this to translate to a real change. I taper off the medication starting on Tuesday and that will be the real telling point...can I stay off the alchohol or will I start to think I need something to ease the anxiety and feeling of "needing the drink to avoid my responsibilities". There is some solid studies that this can work...I need to simply believe. I'm a cynic and don't have a lot of trust...but I'm going to admit my fear and feed my belief.
I've also decided that the best attitude I had in sobriety was "living in the bounce". It's ok to be happy for a few hours, get depressed for a few hours, and mostly be content....it's understanding that how I feel is gonna jump around...it's knowing it's all just temperary states of mind ... feel it...don't do destructivet things (like buying binges or saying scary stuff to people due to a temporary feeling). This feels like a goal I might be able to achieve...but we will see how it goes.
Thanks to all of you
Nands
Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results has been key to my decision to go outside "traditional methods".
I will share a bit about this...but don't want to go on too long...
I'm doing a "home" medical detox...with access to medical help and checking in with the doctor about anything that seems a bit off.
I'm not having my mom here, or having supervision in a direct way. I keep thinking about "learned helplessness" which seems to have had me trapped for some years now...the idea that "I can't" that if there isn't someone there monitoring me I will fail. Mom can detox me, but it doesn't work long haul and always feels a bit like an unhealthy dependency that isn't really working...I can ask for help, but in the end I have to have a committment, strength or something that doesn't require another entity to push through the hard times.
I'm not real comfortable about a medical detox because it makes it easier, and eventually I have to change or it won't stick...I guess it's just a few days without alchohol with a plan to continue after the medication. If alchoholism is partly the drinking "habit" or possibly a physical need...this will give me a few days to get beyond that part without a "supervising agent"...I just don't know...but it is something I haven't tried (treatment does not medicate when I have gone...it's go off everything).
I've over analized this, but I'm still stuck on the idea of "do something different" and find something to make it work that isn't dependent on approval and watching eyes. There is nothing wrong with using those tools if they work for you...sober is sober...but it hasn't worked for me in the past and I need to do something new.
One thing I wanted to mention...My mom is going to the Antartic at 84 years old! She leaves next week. This inspires me! I want to be like that. And I want her to not be "saving" her 3 sick kids lol ... makes me more committed short term to being in good shape this week so she can go enjoy without a burden in her heart.
Additionally, I'm doing well at work (from a professional view...they don't see the destruction of my drinking yet)...and adding to my contributions at work matter.
OK...I screwed up and talked too much. The medication makes me talkative and motivated to do stuff...house clean, laundry done and lawyer work almost caught up. I just don't want this to be temporarily because I'm on medication...I want this to translate to a real change. I taper off the medication starting on Tuesday and that will be the real telling point...can I stay off the alchohol or will I start to think I need something to ease the anxiety and feeling of "needing the drink to avoid my responsibilities". There is some solid studies that this can work...I need to simply believe. I'm a cynic and don't have a lot of trust...but I'm going to admit my fear and feed my belief.
I've also decided that the best attitude I had in sobriety was "living in the bounce". It's ok to be happy for a few hours, get depressed for a few hours, and mostly be content....it's understanding that how I feel is gonna jump around...it's knowing it's all just temperary states of mind ... feel it...don't do destructivet things (like buying binges or saying scary stuff to people due to a temporary feeling). This feels like a goal I might be able to achieve...but we will see how it goes.
Thanks to all of you
Nands
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: fort wayne, IN.
Posts: 1,085
I have tried lots of methods. This time I just did it. I believe in living in the bounce too although I did not know that was what I was doing until I read your definition. Very smart. Glad you are still sober. I believe that people really do get what they want, whether they are honest with themselves about what that is, is inconsequential.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by ananda
it's knowing it's all just temperary states of mind ... feel it...
Have you have read any Buddhist writings? This is very much a similar approach. I know it helped me a great deal, with quitting booze, and with life in general.
ps you did not write too much. I read with interest, so thanks for sharing. xo
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Just FYI....
Living in the bounce was something that came out of my buddist practice combined with my personal struggles....
How lucky we are to be born human and experience the world through the human existance (as scewed as our perspectives are). I use to say thank you every day for being born in a human body and expereince these things we experience regardless of thier reality in the big picture...it's an experience.
I'm a lousy buddist by most persepctives...my teacher died a few years ago...and I think he got it in a way that I got it that doesn't seem to be what most who pursue the path do. I eat meat, I smoke (unfortunately I have drank, though not today)...I break alot of preceps...but Leon always laughed..its the human condition...It's not about doing whatever you want to feel good...but it isn't about beating yourself up cause you are human either.
It's about seeing things as they are...not optomistic or pessimistic...it is what is is (although I've heard that phrase used in ways that aren't approprieate). It's about accepting people as they are (including yourself). It's about letting go of results and focusing on the next indicated thing.
There are lots of alchoholic buddhists, abusive buddhists... but there is something in the teachings that keeps me in a state of moving on (and sobriety). I will start sitting again tonight.
The bounce is about human life...I use to think of it as sitting by a river of emotion and not jumping in..just watching...
OK...too much intellectual stuff again...but no bottle by my side and a plan in place...we will see how it works....
Nands
Living in the bounce was something that came out of my buddist practice combined with my personal struggles....
How lucky we are to be born human and experience the world through the human existance (as scewed as our perspectives are). I use to say thank you every day for being born in a human body and expereince these things we experience regardless of thier reality in the big picture...it's an experience.
I'm a lousy buddist by most persepctives...my teacher died a few years ago...and I think he got it in a way that I got it that doesn't seem to be what most who pursue the path do. I eat meat, I smoke (unfortunately I have drank, though not today)...I break alot of preceps...but Leon always laughed..its the human condition...It's not about doing whatever you want to feel good...but it isn't about beating yourself up cause you are human either.
It's about seeing things as they are...not optomistic or pessimistic...it is what is is (although I've heard that phrase used in ways that aren't approprieate). It's about accepting people as they are (including yourself). It's about letting go of results and focusing on the next indicated thing.
There are lots of alchoholic buddhists, abusive buddhists... but there is something in the teachings that keeps me in a state of moving on (and sobriety). I will start sitting again tonight.
The bounce is about human life...I use to think of it as sitting by a river of emotion and not jumping in..just watching...
OK...too much intellectual stuff again...but no bottle by my side and a plan in place...we will see how it works....
Nands
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Yes, Ananda. Urge surfing. Mindfulness. Meditation. Living in your present moment. Acceptance. Recognition and awareness. Non judgement.
These are each words that I have come to understand in a new way since I have become sober. Good journey, my friend.
These are each words that I have come to understand in a new way since I have become sober. Good journey, my friend.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 17
Ananda
Firstly, thank you to all on this forum who helped me cope with adult sons relapse over Xmas.He is now back on track with the help of ant abuse 48 hourly.I know not all agree with this method but it is the only thing that works (most of the time)for him.He usually stays sober for months if not years on this.Obviously it is dependent on the A taking it regularly under supervision which is not ideal,but has tried rehab,AA,etc and relapses are seldom and shorter than earlier in his life.Hope this may help some others out there.I wish all of you peace and love
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
I think people need to find a way that works for them. I know that I do need some kind of program, but that is just me. Some people don't and they are able to stay sober. We are all unique in our own ways and what works for one person, might not work for another.
I think the most important thing is to realize that you do have a problem and that you do need to change the way you think and do things. And to recognize when something isn't working for you.
Everyone has to find their own path. and the journey we all take is personal for each of us. If it keeps you sober, that really is all that matters and is okay in my opinion.
I think the most important thing is to realize that you do have a problem and that you do need to change the way you think and do things. And to recognize when something isn't working for you.
Everyone has to find their own path. and the journey we all take is personal for each of us. If it keeps you sober, that really is all that matters and is okay in my opinion.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 17
Ananda
I was really happy to read of your concern for your Mother,Ananda.I am in a similar position with my adult son,and know the heartbreak in watching someone you treasure on a binge.it's great to read of her trip to Antarctic ,what a strong lady she is! I love reading your posts as it's sometimes hard as a mother to " let go".I wish you every blessing,also you. Mom.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Things are ok
frankly...sober i tend to be a bit more blunt..not unkind, I just call it like I see it...It seems to be assumed I must be drunk to act that way...or that it is unhealthy...I'm not sure I agree.
So...plugging on ... I'm a lot more "productive" (meet expectations) than when I drink...but when I get honest...wow how people start freaking out that maybe you are going to drink...or are...
I don't know...we will see how it goes this week. I'm not feeling down or up...just a bit confused. Should be good for at least another 20 hours. I'll see how things seem at that point...
Sorry I can't be more uplifting...I do love that things are in OK shape...Not happy with some things though.
Nands
frankly...sober i tend to be a bit more blunt..not unkind, I just call it like I see it...It seems to be assumed I must be drunk to act that way...or that it is unhealthy...I'm not sure I agree.
So...plugging on ... I'm a lot more "productive" (meet expectations) than when I drink...but when I get honest...wow how people start freaking out that maybe you are going to drink...or are...
I don't know...we will see how it goes this week. I'm not feeling down or up...just a bit confused. Should be good for at least another 20 hours. I'll see how things seem at that point...
Sorry I can't be more uplifting...I do love that things are in OK shape...Not happy with some things though.
Nands
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by ananda 
Things are ok
frankly...sober i tend to be a bit more blunt..not unkind, I just call it like I see it...It seems to be assumed I must be drunk to act that way...or that it is unhealthy...I'm not sure I agree.
frankly...sober i tend to be a bit more blunt..not unkind, I just call it like I see it...It seems to be assumed I must be drunk to act that way...or that it is unhealthy...I'm not sure I agree.
Like anything else, we learn by experience, and we all have to start at the start, wherever the hell start starts no matter its just the way it is hahaha
Great to hear you're getting it done, nands. Rock on.
:ghug3
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I'm gonna have to change just how and what I share with my mom. She is a lovely woman and has found a way to deal with a lot of death, illness, and alchoholism. She does very well.... I am the only person in her immediate family (parents, grandparents, brothers, sisteres, sons...who hasn't had cancer. And most of her family have alchoholism or addiction. She has done well at staying clear on not taking on the blame and understanding many aspects. But lately she really has become invested in "saving" me and my brother. She gets the limits...but she doesn't see how controlling she is. She is becoming a lot different from who she was 10 years ago...she really want's to control...Yet she wants to be "helpful" and so she is a mixed bag...plus what she remembers changes from day to day. I keep feeling like "help" is the "sunny side of control".
I've been working to become financially independent, but draw the line at loosing my house. I'm only about half way there...will work harder to get there. It's all so wierd to sort...but for now I am taking as little money from her as I can to meet the absolutely necessary (of course in my opinion),,progress but still those chains are there.
I try to be sure I'm not too up or down when I talk to her, yet share and be honest. She got critical of my sobriety plan, so I just said ok...so how was your day! It was a definate boundry setter, and I hope it didn't hurt her feelings. I won't discuss the plan with her anymore. Need to become a bit less entangled, cause it really does mess with my state of mind.
Day was ok. ups and downs but bounced through ok
I think I'm ok for another day...then mom is off on her antartic adventure and we will see how I handle the lack of daily contact. I think it may end up a good thing...but not necessarily easy.
I'm rambling..I just have to stay steady and not think too hard but think enough to change a little at a time.
Pizza Cassarole...Criminal Minds...Bed (got the budget stuff done already).
Nands
I've been working to become financially independent, but draw the line at loosing my house. I'm only about half way there...will work harder to get there. It's all so wierd to sort...but for now I am taking as little money from her as I can to meet the absolutely necessary (of course in my opinion),,progress but still those chains are there.
I try to be sure I'm not too up or down when I talk to her, yet share and be honest. She got critical of my sobriety plan, so I just said ok...so how was your day! It was a definate boundry setter, and I hope it didn't hurt her feelings. I won't discuss the plan with her anymore. Need to become a bit less entangled, cause it really does mess with my state of mind.
Day was ok. ups and downs but bounced through ok
I think I'm ok for another day...then mom is off on her antartic adventure and we will see how I handle the lack of daily contact. I think it may end up a good thing...but not necessarily easy.
I'm rambling..I just have to stay steady and not think too hard but think enough to change a little at a time.
Pizza Cassarole...Criminal Minds...Bed (got the budget stuff done already).
Nands
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
HI all
I'm struggling a bit because I miss contact with someone I can just review the day with and whine a bit, laugh a bit, and go on...
But...I think I need this time to be sober and not discuss every detail with mom...we aren't the same people and it's a burden to her and a guilt trip for me.
I am going to ask my brother and his wife over for dinner on Saturday. This week I've got a lot done...mostly "responsible"...but also started to think deeply (horror or horrors lol)...but feeling some balance and "control" (gasp).
Mom is currently crossing the horn...so seasickness is probably the temporary issue....but she has always wanted to do it and it will be great once she gets through that and gets to see a far a way land
I really can't say I'm "happy" or "content"....But I'm not like craving tons. And I kinda feel like I can be a bit more me cause it's not drinking that effects these relationships...it's me being who I am...that means I gotta learn to be ok with it and nice about not shoving "me" in others faces lol
Frankly, I don't feel "safe" from falling off the path...but I'm willing to walk it. An ex boyfriend (serious and serious baggage) emailied me yesterday. We've reconnected as old friends (he is happily married and I'm happily not married to him LOL). But he told me about the one time he talked to my dad about perpetual motion (ok if you aren't into physics you might not get this!) But it was a touching story and even though I was a bit on the teary side for the next 2 hours....it was a touching and happy moment...
I might be learning to live in the bounce again....with some new growth as well...
anyways...love you all!
Nands
I'm struggling a bit because I miss contact with someone I can just review the day with and whine a bit, laugh a bit, and go on...
But...I think I need this time to be sober and not discuss every detail with mom...we aren't the same people and it's a burden to her and a guilt trip for me.
I am going to ask my brother and his wife over for dinner on Saturday. This week I've got a lot done...mostly "responsible"...but also started to think deeply (horror or horrors lol)...but feeling some balance and "control" (gasp).
Mom is currently crossing the horn...so seasickness is probably the temporary issue....but she has always wanted to do it and it will be great once she gets through that and gets to see a far a way land
I really can't say I'm "happy" or "content"....But I'm not like craving tons. And I kinda feel like I can be a bit more me cause it's not drinking that effects these relationships...it's me being who I am...that means I gotta learn to be ok with it and nice about not shoving "me" in others faces lol
Frankly, I don't feel "safe" from falling off the path...but I'm willing to walk it. An ex boyfriend (serious and serious baggage) emailied me yesterday. We've reconnected as old friends (he is happily married and I'm happily not married to him LOL). But he told me about the one time he talked to my dad about perpetual motion (ok if you aren't into physics you might not get this!) But it was a touching story and even though I was a bit on the teary side for the next 2 hours....it was a touching and happy moment...
I might be learning to live in the bounce again....with some new growth as well...
anyways...love you all!
Nands
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I'm trying to deal with some really ridiculous resentments and issues....I'm trying to track someone down in chat.....no one there right now and it needs to be someone I have some trust in...this really sucks....it may be a pivotal point in this deal, although only cause I think it is...it's really just silly stuff...
My best friend face to face loves my mom so much that I'm not sure it's a good idea to talk with her about it. I know I'm being stupid right now, but it's stuff that's eating my gut sober and I refuse to just go get a bottle over it....
a bit desperate...but still determined not to just cave in and drink...
God I feel stupid right now
My best friend face to face loves my mom so much that I'm not sure it's a good idea to talk with her about it. I know I'm being stupid right now, but it's stuff that's eating my gut sober and I refuse to just go get a bottle over it....
a bit desperate...but still determined not to just cave in and drink...
God I feel stupid right now
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I'm better
I want to thank you Fresh. It was an eye opening moment when I spoke to you in chat.
My teacher of 20 years (who died a few years ago) had "coached" me on following the breath for years....but somewhere along the line I turned it into controlling the breath rather than watching....
I am renewing my commitment to some things. Of course I still have to change...but maybe I also need to remember to laugh a bit at the mom resentment (and believe me she is a wonderful person! Just human lol)
It was a stressful week at work, but I did better at living in the bounce and not staying stuck in a mood or irritation. Since Mom has been in the antartic, I have learned that talking on the phone for an hour with her is not exactly a good idea LOL.
I am going to focus on appreciating being able to expereince being a human being, warts and all...and not get all wound up about "being human".
I pretty much screwed up getting done what need to happen today...I'll try to catch up tomarrow...it won't all get done, but the big thing is I didn't cave in and drink...I didn't screw up a relationship with a wacko phone call or post...I'm in reasonable shape responsibility wise (but skating a bit on the edge there). I'll get dishes done...cook supper and do dishes again...work on my lawyer work and tax work....
Tomarrow I'll take care of the printer purchase needed, work on fixing the computer and vacume (hopefully dust too). That will be more than I would have done drunk so it's gonna be good enough for this week.
Thanks to all of you for letting me post here without a bunch of posts about how wrong I am. When I've stayed sober it's been because I had some belief I was on the right track. I share a bit too much...but so far it's been a benifit and not a henderance for me.
:ghug3
Nands
I want to thank you Fresh. It was an eye opening moment when I spoke to you in chat.
My teacher of 20 years (who died a few years ago) had "coached" me on following the breath for years....but somewhere along the line I turned it into controlling the breath rather than watching....
I am renewing my commitment to some things. Of course I still have to change...but maybe I also need to remember to laugh a bit at the mom resentment (and believe me she is a wonderful person! Just human lol)
It was a stressful week at work, but I did better at living in the bounce and not staying stuck in a mood or irritation. Since Mom has been in the antartic, I have learned that talking on the phone for an hour with her is not exactly a good idea LOL.
I am going to focus on appreciating being able to expereince being a human being, warts and all...and not get all wound up about "being human".
I pretty much screwed up getting done what need to happen today...I'll try to catch up tomarrow...it won't all get done, but the big thing is I didn't cave in and drink...I didn't screw up a relationship with a wacko phone call or post...I'm in reasonable shape responsibility wise (but skating a bit on the edge there). I'll get dishes done...cook supper and do dishes again...work on my lawyer work and tax work....
Tomarrow I'll take care of the printer purchase needed, work on fixing the computer and vacume (hopefully dust too). That will be more than I would have done drunk so it's gonna be good enough for this week.
Thanks to all of you for letting me post here without a bunch of posts about how wrong I am. When I've stayed sober it's been because I had some belief I was on the right track. I share a bit too much...but so far it's been a benifit and not a henderance for me.
:ghug3
Nands
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
You sound good ananda! I missed this thread somehow, but you are moving forward. I did something i dreaded yesterday, car repairs, its never as awful as i predict in my head.
I've learned face my fear of ignorance with car repairs....i soberly ask questions of someone who is patient, knowledgable, and kind....my son in law.
I've learned face my fear of ignorance with car repairs....i soberly ask questions of someone who is patient, knowledgable, and kind....my son in law.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
well...ok...not gonna get my revised list done LOL
Still alot better than 2 weeks ago
I can't do the lawyer stuff without a printer...and we can't go get a printer till 1pm....
I worked on my budget, did up the dishes and looked for a way to save money on my cell phone (no luck ... 1 hour wasited).
But I'm moving and doing and I will get there.
no desire to drink today...if it rears it's ugly head I will repeat what I did yesterday cause it worked.
I can't tell you how important living in the bounce is for me....Even when I'm on medication it will happen from time to time...I think it is maybe about living with who you are and learning to deal with it...much like a learning disabled person can succeed, but have to find different ways then others to accomplish things. Not dumb..just "differently enabled"
Love my dogs, love my kids, love my friends
Nands
Still alot better than 2 weeks ago
I can't do the lawyer stuff without a printer...and we can't go get a printer till 1pm....
I worked on my budget, did up the dishes and looked for a way to save money on my cell phone (no luck ... 1 hour wasited).
But I'm moving and doing and I will get there.
no desire to drink today...if it rears it's ugly head I will repeat what I did yesterday cause it worked.
I can't tell you how important living in the bounce is for me....Even when I'm on medication it will happen from time to time...I think it is maybe about living with who you are and learning to deal with it...much like a learning disabled person can succeed, but have to find different ways then others to accomplish things. Not dumb..just "differently enabled"
Love my dogs, love my kids, love my friends
Nands
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