Old 12-09-2012, 10:27 AM
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I must say, I think that Aa has some interesting ideas and useful ways at looking at addiction, ideas that I have employed, but what always strikes me as odd, are the people who are in their 20th or 30th year of regular meetings. I mean, honestly, it seems like a nightmare to me.

The long and short of it is, once you remove the alcohol, and the post acute withdrawal ends, you have to be a human being.

Regular people don't work steps all the time.
However, regular people do,
Admit when their wrong,
Try to be honest,
Help their fellow man,
Volunteer time to the less fortunate.

I don't necessarily see why AA feels a lock on these ideas. I think any decent person does these things.

I guess my point is, it seems all their personal issues get related to alcohol, when I see it as the reverse. Alcohol is one of a number of things that may or may not need to be dealt with, and for me, not covering up everything with booze has brought clarity, and rational thinking, and better coping skills.

The constant self talk that you are hopelessly incurably ill, and must be constantly vigilant, and am powerless, is VERY detrimental to me, I've found.

Just my random thoughts lately reading these boards.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:57 AM
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I'm not ill, powerless nor do consider my former alcohol consumption a disease. It's simply a very unhealthy, self-indulgent addiction, like when I smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day.

silly as it sounds I feel quite thrilled that I just cracked open a bottle of orange seltzer while I am prepping some sunday dinner. I prefer doing it this way, I don't have to my previous addiction an active part of my real life. it's like i would be wallowing.

I am fortunate enough and very grateful to be employed, own a home and have a life outside of work with good friends and family, pets, etc.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:03 AM
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DoubleBarrel, I agree with you.

In fact, I have a tough time with the idea that there is anything particularly unique about people with addictions or a history of addictions, at all. I truly do not feel that there is anything special about us, or that having an addiction is the worst thing in the world, worse than all other things (it's bad, don't get me wrong, but is it worse than, say, liver cancer? ALS? Autism?).

Which is why I don't like to go on and on about my "sobriety" or my "recovery" as if somehow those things are different from, or on a higher plane than, the struggles ALL humans have in their lives.

I have found that my own mental health and life are vastly improved by not viewing myself as some sort of unique creature, specially favored by God (who lets the guy with ALS die a horrible death while saving me? I don't think so.) or cut off from my fellow human beings by an experience no one else can possibly understand.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:22 PM
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Been there, done that!
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Totally agree, I felt worse in aa than at anytime in my life, iam just thankful other paths exist...
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:52 PM
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Let's all be careful to limit our discussion as much as possible to secular, non-12 step topics. So, let's say what we like about what we are now doing, not what we don't like about the other.

It's a fine line, but we can still have this discussion without that padlock of propriety appearing.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:11 PM
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I didn't even realize what i was doing was considered AVRT or secular....I just quit drinking?

my first motive was to step up to the plate to care for our very sick mother...she died last year and i was sober for the funeral (i use May 5, 2011 as my start date, cos it was her funeral and my nephew's birthday).

i always like to play fair, and my brother was carrying all the was a crappy way to treat him while i cried about my problems.... in retrospect, i have spent the last year doing my part and not complaining and also taking on more responsibilities...(we are selling jointly owned property). I can't think clearly and make responsible decisions if i'm not sober....people are counting on me.

the more I did the right thing (taking responsibility and helping the family), the better I felt and drinking just "wasn't an option" (thanks Amy)!

I come here everyday to connect with people, i am also part of the gratitude section.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:43 PM
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I am becoming a fan of AVRT and am just realizing now this is what my husband has been using. But, for us spouses, there only seems to be al-anon. I seem to be in a bit of a unique situation where my husband isn't drinking, but I'm still struggling with stuff (unresolved stuff from when he was drinking as well as how/who he has chosen for his supports). I am struggling with the label co-dependent, but would like some explanation for why I'm still having such a hard time with stuff. Why I am so jealous of these connections he's made while sobering up. Why I can't seem to fully trust him. He's done nothing to suggest that I shouldn't, but it is still there. Is there anything other than al-anon that goes along with AVRT? Any thoughts?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:48 PM
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These kinds of discussions never work out well. Slamming other programs is a waste of effort. Everyone has their opinions to be sure. Dosen't mean though that slamming is justified.

And before I get into my own trouble, I'll just say this thread needs to be locked and forgotten about.

There is no "best" program or "best" way to become clean and sober and otherwise a non-drinker.

Its all individual choices, and I do my best to keep an open mind on other peoples choices.

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Old 12-09-2012, 03:28 PM
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we can still have this discussion without that padlock of propriety
Actually you can't - not here.

It's quite simple.

The secular forum is for people to share the secular approaches that have worked for them.

It's not some kind of safe room to discuss AA without reprisal.

Rule 4 still applies, as does the secular forum guideline
12 Step Programs are off topic for this forum and posts discussing 12 Step Programs will be removed. Please use the Secular 12 Step Forum for positive topics on Secular 12 Step Recovery.
so I'm closing... for the Sec mods to look at later.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:29 AM
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I agree with Dee. We do not discuss 12 Step rograms in forum
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