Blogs


Notices

New to AVRT

Old 11-26-2012, 03:43 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
New to AVRT

Hey all, have had a couple threads elsewhere on the site. Mostly in Substance Abuse.
Here for my husband who is having issues with a crack addiction.

Recently was told about AVRT and I have high hopes with this technique.
Was hoping to get a little more detail and advice on individual basis.

My husband says he has always been able to tell the difference between him and "it" he has described his problem to me in a way using two separate thoughts/people/ like a split personality or evil twin concept. I didn't know how common this was but I figured if it works for him than great. When coming across AVRT I thought it would help sense he already seems to understand the AV vs. him concept and can now realize what that is more so than just another part of him. He can label it and recognize it more so.

He went through the Crash Course last night but we haven't had a chance to discuss it yet and when we do I will be able to get more specific on what advice is needed.

Would love to get him on this forum but he doesn't have any free time with his work schedule so I am helping in this way

So mostly looking at ways to deal with (we dubbed his beast "Monster") his monster when it creeps up.
In the past he would argue with it, or try to reason with it which never helped (now understanding why) and when he tried ignoring it, he said it would be a matter of seconds before it comes back stronger and becomes harder to ignore. This would happen repeatedly before the AV would decide it would shut up if he just gives in. So he would. He'd give in to shut up the AV. Exactly what It wanted.
Realizing this now, thanks to awesome information here and on the RR website.


So how do you deal with the AV? What can he do if ignoring it seems to become more of a struggle? Just tell himself he calls the shots? I mean, I'm a little confused as to if recognizing/ignoring is enough to keep it at bay long enough to carry on with life.

Hope to find some help on this. This seems to be what we need and I'm excited
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
Artoro (11-27-2012), onlythetruth (11-27-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-26-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-26-2012, 07:57 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Self recovered Self discovered
 
freshstart57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,147
Mindfulness and Immunity to Temptation.

UrgeSurfing.mp3

A TED Talk about Mindfulness
freshstart57 is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to freshstart57 For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Fandy (11-27-2012), Lenina (11-27-2012), onlythetruth (11-27-2012), PabloChe (06-26-2013), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), tabasco (11-27-2012)
Old 11-26-2012, 09:16 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,450
Hi, DejaVu.

The goal isn't to ignore it. Quite the opposite—for me the whole point was to be aware of it, to analyze it and observe it. To separate myself from the desire—after all, I'd decided I didn't want to drink anymore—and then consciously disregard it.

The AV has no more power than a dog barking in a neighbor's yard. Now I hardly hear it at all, but it takes time. There's a lot more to this than just calling the desire to drink "AV". Your husband can absolutely beat this, but he'll need to invest some time and energy in it—a great start would be reading Rational Recovery The New Cure, and checking out the multipart AVRT discussion threads here on SR.

Glad you stopped in. You have every reason to be optimistic.
ReadyAndAble is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ReadyAndAble For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Lenina (11-27-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 02:52 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Hi and welcome DejaVu,

AVRT is not about being against our AV or our respective Beast. It's not about fighting. Its using Addictive Voice Recognition to identify and separate ourselves from our addictive desires, and our own thoughts from addictive thoughts and ideas.

We separate so as to be free and clean and get on with our lives. All the addiction mess is left behind. AVRT is a learned skill set, and since it's learned, it's skills can be taught and passed on to others.

AVRT is still though very much a personal experience. Many people freely use AVRT in different ways and means as they see fit.

Your husband (and you too) reading up on AVRT in the book mentioned by ReadyAndAble, as well as the ongoing Parts I,II,III,IV, and now part V of the AVRT thread, now carried by Dee74 in this forum, is a great start to get a grounding in proper AVRT.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-5-a.html

It's alot of reading, and well worth the effort.

You and your husband will learn the differences between addiction ambivalence struggles, and personal struggles. You'll also learn about how the Beast (Monster) is simply abnormal addictive desire, and how AV is to Beast as bark is to dog.

I have every hope for you and your husband to be successful in your efforts. Eventually of course, the responsibility is that of your husband to own up to his own addiction responsibilites. I mean, others can only do so much for us to help out, and then the ex-addict needs to follow through on their own, leading the way of their own recovery and finally into being recovered.

With AVRT one eventually and simply just dosen't drink or drug anymore, and they simply get on with living a good life sans alcohol/drugs. It's more an event with AVRT and less a process, as will be discovered.

Hope this has been helpful.
RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Lenina (11-27-2012), onlythetruth (11-27-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), topspin (12-01-2012), Woohoo (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 04:38 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks guys,
He knows as well as I do that this something he has to do on his own. I've always known there to be nothing I can do to really "help" I'm here for him in moral support and the researcher. He works 15+ hour days regularly and so that makes some things (like getting on SR or researching) kind of difficult.

He was clean for 2.5 years and fell to temptation early October and since then hasn't gone two weeks without it. Today marks 14 days and I'm hopeful but still know there's a lot of work to be done on his part to really kick this thing. I believe in him though.

So when you say "separate" from it... are you telling yourself it isn't a part of you?
I'm lost on all that, what goes through your mind kind of thing. I know there's more to it than labeling it I'm just having a hard time understanding what to do with it after you realize what it is lol.

Will definitely read all the discussion threads on AVRT thanks for recommending and I will be looking into the book as well.

-
Thanks for the info.
I guess I will read up and wait on other replies as well; I know there's more of you out there
Trying to understand fully what would go through one's mind and in the course of separating from it what exactly it is you're doing.

Off to read.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
onlythetruth (11-27-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 05:35 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
Wanted to add while the thread is still at the top (no intentional bumping here) that I'm reading through the discussions and copy/pasting posts that I think can be helpful. I know he won't have enough time in a year to finish reading all the discussion posts and so I figure if I can highlight some important ones or ones I think will "click" with him than he could read through (still turning out to be a lot of information haha)

-One thing I'm finding difficult to wrap my head around is that it's claimed that recognizing is enough. I have read it a few times here and elsewhere but it's also claimed that there's more to it. Is that not the most contradicting thing ever? Hmm...

Maybe because I can't put the technique to work in my own mind I'm having a difficult time seeing the "poof" effect of the monster's AV. People explain that it's a simple observation and the AV shuts up. I suppose if they say it works that way in their mind that there's something to it. I just feel like this thing is powerful, how could something so simple just make it shut up after being looked at for what it is?

-Not picking apart the technique or am I any way against it, just trying to understand the best I can.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
onlythetruth (11-27-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 06:19 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Posts: 5,100
It's very nice of you to want to help him.

However, I fail so see how he will get sober if you are the one here and not him. ?If he's not able to free time in his buzy schedule to do the work I don't see how he can get sober. I wonder how he finds the time to buy the product, bring it home, smoke it, yet cannot find 20 minutes to do some reading to save his life.

Sorry it's not what you wanted to hear. Bless you both
Thepatman is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:35 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by DejaVu2 View Post
Maybe because I can't put the technique to work in my own mind I'm having a difficult time seeing the "poof" effect of the monster's AV. People explain that it's a simple observation and the AV shuts up. I suppose if they say it works that way in their mind that there's something to it. I just feel like this thing is powerful, how could something so simple just make it shut up after being looked at for what it is?

-Not picking apart the technique or am I any way against it, just trying to understand the best I can.
Hi again.

Have no concerns for how you wish to examine AVRT. It will hold up under all conditions, and likewise, all inquiries.

Let's look at basic definitions, which can be found in Part I of the AVRT thread:
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique


Addiction:
Addiction is chemical use or dependence that exists against one's own better judgment, and persists in spite of efforts to control or eliminate the use of the substance. Addiction exists only in a state of ambivalence, in which one strongly wants to continue drinking alcohol or using other drugs, but also wants to quit or at least reduce the painful consequences.
Addictive Voice:
  1. Any thinking, mental image, or feeling that supports, or even suggests, your future use of alcohol or drugs.
  2. An expression of the appetite for pleasure induced by alcohol or drugs, or the Beast.
Beast:
  1. The desire to get high, to drink or use drugs.
  2. Addictive desire. Often used synonymously with "Addictive Voice," but more accurately, the appetite or desire for substance-induced pleasure.
  3. The Addictive Voice is to the Beast what a bark is to a dog.
Big Plan:
A transcending personal commitment to unconditional, permanent abstinence. The reasons for making a Big Plan can vary between individuals.
Recovery:
Secure, permanent abstinence. Nothing else.
I've been using AVRT for many years, and defeating or otherwise "shutting up" my AV has never been a goal. AV is completely normal thinking in my mind as a process. It takes skill, therefore, and techniques as well, to recognise my AV from my other thoughts. To attempt to shutup my AV would be the same as dumbing myself down to the point of stupidity, and this is of course why it always fails to purposefully attempt to shutup my AV.

It's all in the recognition. So, some persons recognise more AV then do some others. Not everybody will admit, or can descern, how advanced and entrenched their AV has become in their thoughts.

Ex:

I want a drink -- this is AV
I don't want a drink -- not AV

I dont want a drink for the next two weeks -- this is AV
I don't want to drink today, or any day -- this is not AV

I'm tired of fighting against the Beast -- this is AV
I've beaten the Beast! I can't hear any AV -- this is AV
@#%$&^ this crap! -- this is AV

I can feel my Beast hurt for alcohol and drugs -- this is not AV
I can hear my AV talking to me -- this is not AV
I can be secure and calm, knowing my Beast and my AV are doing their own thing, while I'm doing mine. I have separated from them both. I am free of their addictive desires, and addictive thoughts. I have knowledge of them, but I am free of them, now, today, and always -- this is not AV

So...

Pretty clear, that shutting down AV is as useless has stopping all your thoughts. In fact, it is only in hearing our AV that we have opportunity to recognise our AV.

I'm indifferent to my AV and my Beast. It's like this: we have on this planet enough nukes to blow us all to nothingness. There are forces of war which would like nothing better. And meanwhile there are forces for peace which will not allow such a horror to come to be.

So, we can worry ourselves that the sky is falling, or we can become indifferent to our fears, get on the peace side of things, and join in with the side of prevention.

It's all about quality of life.

My AV is pretty well totally recognised by me, and my indifference to it's useless suggestions to drink and drug are rather pathetic and entirely selishly stupid. My Beast has hurt for alcohol now longer than 31 years. It will continue to hurt for the rest of my natural life. I couldn't care any less for its hurts and trials, lol. I'm completely indifferent to its sufferings. Not ignorant. Not arrogant. Just indifferent.

After this many years, I'm doing AVRT like its effortless... and it is, really, that easy, and has been that easy for decades now.

So, once again, I don't attempt to shutup my AV. I always just recognise it, and move on with my thinking.

I have no comment for those who practice AVRT proper, and yet say they don't have AV, or they successfully shut up their AV, except perhaps to say the thing about AVRT is its all in the recognition, and some people only see what they want to see, no matter what else is going on with themselves.

RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Fandy (11-27-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), SleepyKitty (12-10-2012), Woohoo (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 07:10 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
Originally Posted by Thepatman View Post
It's very nice of you to want to help him.

However, I fail so see how he will get sober if you are the one here and not him. ?If he's not able to free time in his buzy schedule to do the work I don't see how he can get sober. I wonder how he finds the time to buy the product, bring it home, smoke it, yet cannot find 20 minutes to do some reading to save his life.

Sorry it's not what you wanted to hear. Bless you both
So according to you... one requires being "here" in order to become sober. If you don't "see" him becoming sober without him here as you say then it must be a requirement for any person to remain clean and sober... ?
Jobless is also not a requirement for being clean. Last I checked.

He has time to read, just not 100s of online pages in any timely manner. That's why I'm reading and copying what I can that isn't useless knowledge off of the discussion posts. Information about J. Trimpey's religious beliefs for example... Would be a waste of his time.

I don't want to make enemies. I'm not trying to come off as rude or condescending either. Only slightly defensive; I just think you were quick to judge. I felt attacked.
Willing to put all that aside, though.

Still looking for answers.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 07:17 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
Okay Mr. Robot... Trying to grasp this. Monster is allowed to think/feel/say whatever it wants whenever it wants to. The point is not to make him be quiet but to ignore it? Like a child throwing a tantrum because he wants ice cream? Just become aware that it's a monster wanting a fix and that you're perfectly okay with going without?
Does that make the monster simmer down or does the monster keep attacking the next second?

If it doesn't shut up the AV than what does it do? Mute it? Make it illogical almost imaginary? Or just ignored? Or do you just not care? Like making fun of the kid on the floor screaming and crying for ice cream? "Ha, you're not getting any!!" Lol

I wish I had my monster back. Was an alcoholic for years. Self Recovered with no "method" no longer hear any monsters :/ Makes it difficult to understand. I've been trying to get the husband on the forum but he's been having to work crazy over time maybe once his schedule dies down a little more I can get him on here.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 07:39 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by DejaVu2 View Post
Okay Mr. Robot... Trying to grasp this. Monster is allowed to think/feel/say whatever it wants whenever it wants to. The point is not to make him be quiet but to ignore it? Like a child throwing a tantrum because he wants ice cream? Just become aware that it's a monster wanting a fix and that you're perfectly okay with going without?
Does that make the monster simmer down or does the monster keep attacking the next second?
Yeah, the Monster is allowed to be free to be whatever it is, for all time. All AV is allowed as well. No exceptions or conditions are required, or desired. There is no "war" to win.

The point is not to ignore the Monster. Ignoring the Monster will only bring misery, because the addictive desires are too strong to be long ignored with any kind of success. The Monster speaks though its AV. Recognising which particular AV thoughts, if followed thru on, would satisfy the Monsters desires is the desired technique to make use of to achieve separation of thoughts of AV and everyday thinking. Once recognised, and not acted on, the Monster will attempt new AV, and so on. To the ex-addict, this will seem as normal thinking with addictive ambivalence in action pullin him/her in all directions.

Eventually enough AV is recognised to become indifferent to the Monsters desires and barks (AV). No different then when you talk with a friend in a noisy place, and you filter out the background noise to follow the conversation. You're aware of the noise, but indifferent to it. Same thing is what you want to eventually achieve with the Monster.

So, its not about ignoring. Its all about recognising and then becoming, eventually, indifferent to this backgoround AV noise.

The Monster is only so smart, and eventually, can only repeat itself on and on and on. It becomes quite boring to listen to it, actually. I'd rather watch paint dry, lol.

Keep asking questions, DejaVu. Its how we find answers, yeah?

Hope this helped some.

RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Kateg (11-30-2012), Woohoo (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 07:47 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member of SMART Recovery
 
onlythetruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
DejaVu2:

Let me begin by making clear that I do not consider myself any sort of expert on AVRT. I am someone who stumbled across some of the basic truths of AVRT without knowing it or reading a thing.

What happened with me, is that after years of drinking and the all the nastiness that brings, I suddenly (after a nasty episode) "got" that I simply could not drink again, ever. And I made what I now know is the Big Plan: I told myself I was never going to drink again, period.

With that line in the sand, so to speak, it was easy to recognize the AV (although I didn't call it that). Any thought that I could or should drink was AV. Very simple. And very simple to deal with. It was clear that there was no point in arguing with it or engaging with such thoughts in any way. Such thoughts were to be ignored.

At first the thoughts came often and in sneaky ways, but no matter how often or now sneaky, with the decision made, the AV was simple to recognize and ignore and its power over me faded pretty quickly. It did not "go away" and never will, as it is part of me.... but it has no power.

It's been quite a few years since that time. I've done lots of things to improve my physical and mental health since then: various self-help programs, lifestyle changes, and serious professional therapy, and I've built myself a darn good life (if I do say so myself). But it all started with that simple, basic recognition that drinking was NEVER going to be an option.

As far as you being the conduit for this information to your husband? Frankly I do not think it matters how recovery ideas are transmitted as long as it works for the individual with the addiction. One thing I have learned is that there is NOT a "right" way to do any of this. There isn't an approach, philosophy, or method of transmission that is universally right or wrong. The reality is, though, that everyone here has found it helpful to communicate with others who understand first hand what it is like to be addicted. For us, it HAS been helpful (so much so for me, that I still hang around places like this trying to help others). So please don't take it the wrong way that our own experience tells us that this might be helpful for your husband as well. That is really all we mean, and we truly are are trying to help.
onlythetruth is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to onlythetruth For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Fandy (11-27-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012), topspin (12-01-2012), Woohoo (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 08:15 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
Lol I feel kind of ignorant here ... like I get what you're saying but my mind is refusing to acknowledge it? I guess that's what's happening. I mentioned my monster is gone. Not entirely true. I've been testing it... see where it's hidden... Which probably isn't healthy but I know I will never drink again and never use drugs again. I found the monster haha. Mostly when the drugs come into play. Alcohol was always my DOC but I had used so many other substances and the monster likes them better. My monster knows the husband is using. My monster likes that. Maybe that's what is causing me to not grasp the concept fully. Because it makes sense. I know it does. But a part of me is skeptical in a way?? See I'm afraid if my husband can't pull himself together... I will go back to using and drinking. (my mind just settled down) lol and that scares me. It's just a fear I have. I will lose everything I worked so hard on being clean and sober for. So I guess my monster acknowledges if husband fails. It thinks it gets what it wants.

Oh I hate this. I keep focusing on his issues hoping to forget my own. I have to deny my monster in order to realize the reality of denying one's monster... in order to... son of a B! My head's swimming lol. Focus.

I will never drink again. I will never use drugs again. I will NEVER change my mind. I will NEVER go back to that.

Okay I'm alright. Well this has been enlightening :/

-------------------------
So is it a per case basis on how to deal with the monsters? It seems everybody has their own opinion on such. Different methods and techniques and what works best for them? But in general you must have separation and know that "I" will NEVER and "it" wants to. "I" will NOT let "it".... and carry on?



I suppose that's kind of like my signature... about 4 months after I quit for good I went through some HELACIOUS stress and my signature (part of a song) was what I had to keep repeating to myself. It got me through. I had to focus on that. Whenever "it" wanted to drink or use I just started singing that part of the song haha. It worked.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 08:38 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
I think I'd also like to comment on the meaning of "ignore"

Ignore has different meanings and uses depending on the individual. The AV can be safely and effectively "ignored" once it has been recognised as proper AV.

To blindly and wholesale ignore AV is to invite frustration and worse. So, "ignoring" (indifference) is fine after recognising
RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), Fandy (11-27-2012), tammy711 (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 09:03 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
So ignore in a sense of "I see what you're doing there, and I don't care."
Is it safe to remind yourself or "it" of that? Or just use it as a frame of mind not a thought?
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
onlythetruth (11-28-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 09:05 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
You already have enough understanding of AVRT to be successful, DejaVu. Be confident in yourself. Realise that Yes, when separation is achieved, then everything else simply makes sense. The Monster and it's AV are forever a separated part of you, but they have absolutely no way to actually get you to do ANYTHING. And so, you can always never drink and drug again, and you can always never change your mind.

How beautiful, eh!
RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
onlythetruth (11-28-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 09:26 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by DejaVu2 View Post
So ignore in a sense of "I see what you're doing there, and I don't care."
Is it safe to remind yourself or "it" of that? Or just use it as a frame of mind not a thought?
The Beast harvests it's AV from our own collective thoughts. So, how we answer the Beast, can either make things worse, or better, depending.

I don't normally challenge my Beast, because to do so simply makes things worse. I don't "talk" with my Beast. It cannot be reasoned with, and it cannot be fooled or deceived either. It can not be anything but what it is -- an unnatural and abnormal animal desire for alcohol/drugs. There is nothing there for me to work with.

Some people love to humanise their Beast, and they become distinct personalities. This creates an atmosphere of pleasure for the Beast, and since the person too feels what the Beast feels, everybody is seemingly happy and so on.

Unfortunately, a happy Beast is a stronger and more powerful Beast, and so the actual difficulty in staying alcohol and drug free becomes conditional on staying happy. The Beast then can play with feelings that have nothing to do with addiction itself, and the Beast becomes larger than life, so to speak. Eventually, the person simply succumbs to the onslaught of desire and AV, which brings ultimate pleasure for the Beast. So, give the Beast an inch of satisfaction, and it will demand more and more.

Better to starve the Beast of all pleasure, today, and for always. Period.

It is a cruel mistake to talk with one's Beast as if they are taking with one's own heart. The Beast is best left alone to suffer alone. Have no sympathy for the Beast. It's not a cute friend who has turned angry, lol, or a backward child who is throwing a tantrum.

The Beast is a human life destroyer with the cunning and resources of an instinctual vicious animal drive for survival at all costs.

I care about the existence of my Beast. I don't care about it's suffering. I care about the veracity of my AV. I don't care what it's core message is; it's always the same message said a million different ways.

A paradox is difficult to explain.
RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), onlythetruth (11-28-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 09:28 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
Lol so I've been over analyzing? Awesome. I do that a lot. Just feel really positive about this working. Want to make sure it's done right yknow?

I've gone through the 1st discussion thread and copied/pasted A LOT. I liked the analogies that people had used. Those were helpful.

Husband's working an 18+ hour shift tonight so won't be able to discuss much or read much but hopefully tomorrow he wont be too exhausted after work.

Any other insight from any peoples is helpful.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
onlythetruth (11-28-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 09:45 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
GerandTwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,252
Blog Entries: 13
Originally Posted by DejaVu2 View Post
I wish I had my monster back. Was an alcoholic for years. Self Recovered with no "method" no longer hear any monsters
Hi DejaVu2,

When I think right now what my favorite drink used to be way back then - decades ago - in my mind I can see the bottle of scotch in my right hand, feel its weight, see the golden liquor pouring out into the tumbler, hear the crackling of the ice, and smell the fumes. I then imagine putting down the bottle and picking up the tumbler and slowly swallowing a nice slug of it. The warmth, the flavor, the nasal clearing, the slight burning going down - it all comes back and I recognize the old desire (the Beast) and a teeny voice inside that says "Yup, it will always be there for you." (my AV) Notice it said "for you", not "for me".

Your "monster" IS there and CAN be Recognized - not Battled (its AVRT not AVBT) - any time you want. It's now just an inconsequential relic of your having once been addicted to booze.

You don't have to answer, but I bet you've made a commitment to never drink again.

I was thinking maybe your name choice reflects what you did to quit and that now you're here for a loved one.

GT
GerandTwine is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to GerandTwine For This Useful Post:
DejaVu2 (11-27-2012), onlythetruth (11-28-2012), ReadyAndAble (11-27-2012), RobbyRobot (11-27-2012), topspin (12-01-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 09:53 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Music Junkie
Thread Starter
 
DejaVu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 63
Blog Entries: 4
The name choice actually DejaVu is one of my favorite songs on recovery. Has a lot of helpful lines that I've memorized and would have to think about. It's also a feeling that I've been here before, several times over, Tired of the cycles.

I felt the monster when thinking about drug use but no matter what I do when it comes to alcohol my monster doesn't seem to care. I was around whiskey and wine coolers Saturday night ... was offered some. Happily declined without a whisper in my head that suggested I should've had some. I'm aware it's there somewhere. Kinda wish it wasn't so hidden... feel like it's plotting haha.
DejaVu2 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DejaVu2 For This Useful Post:
GerandTwine (11-27-2012), onlythetruth (11-28-2012)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:12 PM.