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Old 11-16-2012, 04:47 PM
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Opinions, please

Hi all,
So... what does it mean when you've made the BP, lived it, loved it, no problemo, then.................. have 2 glasses of wine?

Would appreciate any and all input.

Thanks,
Pam
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:57 PM
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The big plan is supposed to be a permanent deal to not drink ever again. I am one that failed also. Why because I did not use the lessons learned when the beast tempted me. I was not able to see IT. AVRT is more then just making a big plan. Recognising the AV is key.

My 50 litle cents. I'm back to the basis 4 days now. Hopefuly someone like freshstart57 pop up and help us ;-)
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:02 PM
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Hi Pam,
Just wondering what were the circumstances?
Was it just at home?
Or at an event?
Did you use anything else before the wine that would have lowered your resolve?
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Thepatman View Post
The big plan is supposed to be a permanent deal to not drink ever again.
I would suggest the reason the OP might be struggling is due to this "permanent" plan. Here is my question. What else in life is permanent? According to science, nothing is. So wouldn't logic dictate that by adding such a Sysiphean task to our already difficult struggle only exacerbate our anxiety and lead us to drink again?

Why add this "permanent plan" when nothing else in this world is permanent? Why add such an insurmountable task to your path? Why continue to push this rock up the mountain only to do the same again when it drops down the other side?

Again, this is my understanding, if it works for you keep doing it! This is NOT an attack on AVRT or your path, it's just a valid question I pondered myself.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:04 PM
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Good point venyl. The point to say I will never drink again is to not leave an open door, not a single one to drink. That diminishes the power of the addictive voice. I tried many times before and somehow had that litle reserve that it was ok to relapse. This time I relapsed while doing AVRT. Relapse was not long, because I knew what had hapenned. I was furious, not at myself more at the beast. I told a member here that I was going to raise my vengeance on my beast, that I would dine in hell the next day. I did, and here I am. I waged my war agaisnt my beast not myself. I do not want to drink, who does then? The beast. All posts here of people saying I don't want to drink anymore. If you say I don't want to have icecream ever again, that would be easy because the Beast does not "need" ice cream to survive. Just my 50 cents
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:09 PM
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Some members where even told by their doctors they would die if they continue drinking, but they keep going. No logic in that right?

What is forever and eternal my friend is human choice
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Hi all,
So... what does it mean when you've made the BP, lived it, loved it, no problemo, then.................. have 2 glasses of wine?

Would appreciate any and all input.

Thanks,
Pam
Hi Pam,

There's a chance you were pressured into a pseudo big plan some months ago when you got back from abroad by the likes of me and maybe others. The BP's gotta be totally from within and forever. There's no good reason you make it public except maybe to show others how it's done (or as the case may be - not done), which can be, in both cases, educational.

Of course, you can make your Big Plan at any time, but it sounds like you drank successfully. If and when you do make your Big Plan you will know and feel that it is, by definition, a once in a lifetime event. Logically, a person can truly promise to never drink again only once. After that, it's just a recalling of that promise.

FYI, (and I'm not saying you are doing this), it is 100% Addictive Voice for a person to suggest that they truly want their blood to remain alcohol and drug free, but they have no idea how to make sure that happens successfully as they continue living their lives.

Nice signature quote, I think it might apply here.

GT
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:14 PM
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Vinyl, I am with you 100% on the mindful approach, living in the present and being aware of our urges to drink as they come and go. The present is the only time when anything happens, the only time we can assert ourselves.

The big plan serves to make that addictive voice distinctive, it makes it whine and howl. It prevents it from lurking around the bushes trying to do an end run around your resolve. That Big Plan forces that AV to make a fuss when that opportunity to have a glass or two of wine comes up.

I think that 'I will never now drink', or 'I will never drink in the present moment' are good BPs, and well suited to that mindful life I have come to appreciate. AVRT is just a specific flavor of mindfulness in a way.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Vinyl, I am with you 100% on the mindful approach, living in the present and being aware of our urges to drink as they come and go. The present is the only time when anything happens, the only time we can assert ourselves.

The big plan serves to make that addictive voice distinctive, it makes it whine and howl. It prevents it from lurking around the bushes trying to do an end run around your resolve. That Big Plan forces that AV to make a fuss when that opportunity to have a glass or two of wine comes up.

I think that 'I will never now drink', or 'I will never drink in the present moment' are good BPs, and well suited to that mindful life I have come to appreciate. AVRT is just a specific flavor of mindfulness in a way.
Fresh, I'd love to get your thoughts on a thread I started about my own personal path. I have a different perspective on a couple of your points. I'd like to discuss it further with you when you when have a moment: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-own-path.html
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
FYI, (and I'm not saying you are doing this), it is 100% Addictive Voice for a person to suggest that they truly want their blood to remain alcohol and drug free, but they have no idea how to make sure that happens successfully as they continue living their lives.
Nicely said, and very informationally a great example detailing advanced AV in play describing future drinking opportunities.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:35 PM
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Thank you all for your responses. Wine was in the house for family visiting (and staying in my guest rooms x 7 days!)

Rush rush kind of day. Spent the morning at the neurologist with my aphasic stroked-out 82 year old Dad and my feisty deaf as a stone 91 year old Mom. More drive rush groceries blah blah pick daughter up from school work on some work stuff.
Saw bottle, thought geez I want to change the way I feel(!!!) opened poured drank. Picked sister and niece up at airport came home had another glass.

Amazing how a 34$ bottle of Cab can taste icky but it did. Bitter, acidic, slightly nauseating.

In bed now, have a headache. Ick. Gross nasty poison.

Thanks for being here.

Pam
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Hi all,
So... what does it mean when you've made the BP, lived it, loved it, no problemo, then.................. have 2 glasses of wine?

Would appreciate any and all input.

Thanks,
Pam
Sorry Pam, to hear of this. Glad to see you so quickly insist from yourself a better outcome then just having another drink. Bravo!

I can suggest Big Plans provide an easy means into an open awareness of our AV. When we don't recognise AV for what it is -- thoughts and images of allowing for future drinking -- we are not able to clearly separate our Beast's desire to drink from our own feelings. Without separation, we in effect are making zero use of our AVRT skills, and so then AVRT would not really be practised as a workable solution to quit drinking under such circumstances.

Feeling too comfortable with ourselves, our AV, and our Beast, all at the same moment, can create additional AV that all is well, including future drinking. Same thing as fighting tooth n nail against our AV and Beast desires can too create AV that we will eventually succumb and drink no matter how hard we fight our AV.

Indifference to our recognised AV is the best way forward. Indifference provides separation and awareness, and yet our indifference protects us from being influenced beyond our awareness. We then can dimiss whatever is happening with our AV once it has been recognised as the voice of our Beast's desire.

Perfecting that indifference is the best use of our AV skills, imo, and from my experience.

I hope for you a better day, Pam.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki
thought geez I want to change the way I feel(!!!)
Well, wanting to change the way you feel is not AV...but the idea that alcohol is a good way to do that certainly is. I want to change the way I feel many times a day some days. Of course *I* know there are a million and one ways to do that. My beast knows but ONE way. I know that about IT.
I agree with Robby. The true power is in the indifference. Drinking is just not an option for me. It can be that way for you too.

Vinyl...life is impermanent, thats for sure, but always a constant is the fact that I am in control of my choices.
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