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Is my AV Satan?

Old 10-21-2012, 07:32 AM
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Galatians 5:13
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Post Is my AV Satan?

I wrote this blog that touches on the thought that my addictive voice might be Satan. Discover what I found out here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-have-me.html




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Old 10-21-2012, 01:50 PM
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That is a very good recounting of your own discovery of AVRT, Tammy, a good read and instructive for anyone looking for more information about how to quit and stay sober 'on your own'. Thanks.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:55 PM
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Interesting Tammy. For someone really religious that beleive in Satan I would think it would be appropriate to associate it to the Beast. It has similar traits, the temptation, lies, fear of you true self, always there waiting for a weakness, and so on.

My 50 cents
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Old 10-21-2012, 04:48 PM
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@Thepatman - I don't understand what you're saying.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:36 PM
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Tammy, what you wrote is so similar to my experience, thank you.
I believe you are correct, AV is Satan.

Those thoughts that take us to a place where our true selves do not want to be but are compelled to be despite our own best thinking - those thoughts are those of our very own and very personal devil.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:08 PM
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Tammy, I liked your conclusion of your story, that your AV not Satan after all, and is really only you. This idea is very important to AVRT I think. Satan and temptation are powerful ideas to be battled and overcome, but AV is only us, a part of us to be accepted and understood. By understanding and accepting, the battle is over before it can begin, the power is gone from the temptation. We remain, watching and living, being mindful and whole.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:17 AM
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Tammy,
In my opinion, the AV is not Satan, but it IS a result of the FALL and our corrupted 'sinful' nature. Paul very clearly parallels AVRT when he describes our 'Flesh Nature' and separates it from our 'Spiritual Nature'. Secular terminology often uses Lower Consciousness and Higher Consciousness. Paul very clearly describes his personal realization of this in Romans 7:15-25.

I do believe however, that if we let our 'Flesh Nature' have complete control, Satan certainly then does have dominion over us.

Thanks for the Post
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:42 AM
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tammy your blog was very interesting,, im very new to avrt but i accepted/understood it immediatley,, its such a simple and obvious thing to do!!
im not religious but i can get where you are coming from with your av being satan.
im love reading all of your posts and everyones here on this page,, you are all so insipring,, im new, and just started , but one week in and i feel so empowered, confident and excited i have my life back,, i have ,me back,,,
hope u have a nice thursady lv cleo x
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:03 PM
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Personally, I have found giving my AV substance only exasperates the anxiety and duality of the condition. I guess what I'm saying is, calling it "satan" or "beast" or giving it any form suggests it's reality, when in fact, this voice is just that, a construct of your mind, chattering away in your brain like every other voice in your head. I've found my path stronger now by realizing it is just my mind chattering away, as it does and that's ok.

I let the voice come in and then leave on it's own. It's the struggle against a form that caused me to relapse back into drinking last time when I called it a "beast" and gave it a life of it's own, but that's just me. I want to be clear, we all have our own paths here, this one is mine and it works for me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:26 PM
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Sorry, vinyl. Although I hear you express your chosen path as yours to make, I'm not sure why you comment on struggles within your own mind as being that which caused you to relapse. Am I hearing you?

Distinctions of thoughts within the experience of our psyche is a normal, healthy consequence of thinking. Without distinction of what is remakable and unremakable in our thinking process would render the experience of thinking itself to be an additional unrelenting impossible problem in itself, yeah?

I don't mean to go all mental gymnastics here, but fwiw, there is a kind of sad apathy to your post which I find disturbing when I think of what you have identified in relation to the cause of your past relapse/return to drinking. It's not making sense to me. I don't see the struggle against mental constructs causing you, or anyone for that matter, to be reasonable cause to drink. As for said struggle being an unreasonable, justified, easy enough excuse for drinking... well yeah, any excuse is as good as any other when we choose to drink.

Feel free to not answer. As you have qualified yourself with stating we all have our own paths. You did post tho, and i am thinking you may want to hear some feedback.

Good going on your month and more of sans-drinking, btw.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:58 PM
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I am sure it was my writing that made my intention confusing, but here is a snippet from my blog I posted in the OP.

As much as I donít like it, I have learned my Addictive Voice is still me. It isn't Satan, it isn't anyone else. It is a part of me. Luckily, I still have my true voice too. With no anxiety whatsoever, I can tell any cunning angle my AV wants to come at me with, "I don't drink any more and I am NEVER going to change my mind."


I don't believe my AV is Satan. The paragraph above this one from my blog states:

The more I got to know my AV and quickly recognize it, the more I would try and make my AV out to be this awful, mean, evil beast that lived outside of me. I am a Christian so at one point I thought, my AV must be SATAN. Yes, it must be Satan. But, I quickly realized that thinking my AV was anything but me, was also my AV trying to manipulate me.


I apologize for any confusion. My AV lives in me and is me, not Satan.

Tammy



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Old 11-08-2012, 06:21 PM
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I'm curious, if your AV is you and you are one in the same, and you don't want to drink, why don't you just stop? I ask out of sincerity by the way, I'm learning too and don't have the same understanding as you and have questions about other's path to recovery.

My understanding is the AV is not you at all but rather a belief system. Unfortunately you have given it substance, a life, a name, now known as YOU. But it can't be you, if you don't want to drink. Which means it is not you at all and only a craving, which in itself is a compound of arising thoughts we allow to control our body (which is the real you).
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:14 PM
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Speaking for myself, my AV is not me, in the usual sense of me being me. My AV is the Addictive Voice of my Beast, and my Beast is my maladjusted animal desire for alcohol. I am entirely separated from my AV and my Beast.

My AV is to my Beast as bark is to dog.

My Beast has no actual mind or thinking ability of its own beyond animal limited ability and instincts. Its essentialy primal animal desire gone wrong with addictive obsession.

So my Beast harvests and gathers thoughts to create my AV, and my AV is any and all thoughts and images which support future drinking of alcohol.

My Beast attempts to use these natural and normal thoughts in a rhetorical flood to influence me to drink so as to satisfy the Beast's desire for alcohol.

So, I'm not my AV. I'm separated from my AV. I'm also not my Beast, as I'm much more than animal desire. I'm human, not animal.These distinctions are important when making use of AVRT.

A Big Plan is the required background in which to recognise the differences between my AV and myself. A Big Plan is simply my ongoing and unchanging decision to not ever again drink alcohol, and to never change my mind about this decision no matter what. No exceptions.

All and any doubts I may ever have about the veracity of my Big Plan is in fact appreciated by me as AV and nothing but AV.

The actual AVRT thread explains in great detail what I have very generally explained from my personal experience with AVRT.

IMO, not really a belief system, AVRT is simply a learned technique to skillfully descriminate my addictive ambivalences from my natural sans-alcohol self. The resultant freedoms enjoyed by my being separated from addictive whatever in the moment desires and consequences of addictive desire is the realised goal of my "doing" AVRT to ensure a sans-alcohol lifestyle.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:53 AM
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RobbyRobot: You should repost that and vinyl questions on the AVRT thread. Thank you for taking the time to put your explanation down for all to read. Very well written and thought out. - Tammy




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Old 11-09-2012, 06:30 AM
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Thanks, Tammy.

You know, imo, you have a good "guts and heart" understanding of AVRT for one who is in early sobriety, and I wanted you to know that from me. You have depth, Tammy. I hope you continue with AVRT, and I'm sure you'll likewise continue to improve your understanding of AVRT.

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Old 11-09-2012, 09:56 AM
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Some of the Posts refer to an 'Actual AVRT Thread'.
Where do I find that thread?

Thank You, RDBplus3
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:17 AM
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I think the point to consider is flexibility. Though I don't necessarily agree with Robby or Tammy, they're both on a path of sobriety and taking care of themselves, and that's a big win. Maybe my thoughts will resonate with someone, maybe not. But it's important to remember that one book with one theory is not necessarily concrete. I find AVRT faulty but there are also tools within the book that are valuable. I hope everyone looks into any strategy to stay sober as a suggested guideline and not an answer. Only you can find your answer and it takes investigation and debate. Good luck everyone.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:24 AM
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RDB - Here is a link to the most recent AVRT thread.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-5-a.html

The first thread there give you links back to the others.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:12 AM
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this is cool. av, satan, disease, ego, beast, negative energy, lower self, bad spirits, tons of other words all really mean the same thing. ive even used satan recently, or visualized it as a metaphore. not thinking that this red devil thing was in my head, but its just fun/helps to have visualizations like that sometimes. word is just a word is a word.
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