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Old 10-09-2012, 05:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How long has AVRT worked?


I am curious how long you have been sober using AVRT? I love it, but I am early in my sobriety and most people I read here on SR have only been using AVRT for less than a year or barely a year.

I am loving AVRT and it is working well... I was just looking for a record of long term success.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Insofar as AVRT 'works' at all (you do the work, remember?), it has worked since the first alcohol addicts self recovered, and you can put that back 4000 years, since grapes were grown for wine. By its nature, it is a permanent end to drinking for every individual who makes their Big Plan. Anyone who stops succeeding at staying sober through AVRT in some way succeeds at drinking instead.

Make no mistake, Tammy, there are plenty of folks around who are sober through AVRT for much longer periods of time than you described. They got sober and they never change their mind. What happens to most people is that they stop regular posting on SR eventually and leave the heavy lifting of support for 12 Step alternatives to other more junior members.

That is why there are no meetings for AVRT. "You quit drinking? About time you did that. Now get on with things, you have some catching up to do." Other sobriety programs have a built in service requirement to them and actually require daily maintenance, so it is much easier to find 'old timers', just go to the meetings.

So Tammy, you say are looking for a record of long term success. It should be obvious that you might not find it here, people get busy after they get sober and all. I wonder, though, what prompts you to ask this? Do you think others record of sobriety can affect your own ability to quit drinking? That sounds like some AV to me.

Let me suggest you work your way through the AVRT discussion thread. There is a huge amount of accumulated knowledge of AVRT and its application there. I am sure that it will inform your understanding better than I can.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It's also natural that people who have quit and consider themselves recovered don't spend much time here. They're just busy living their lives.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tammy711 View Post
I am curious how long you have been sober using AVRT? I love it, but I am early in my sobriety and most people I read here on SR have only been using AVRT for less than a year or barely a year.

I am loving AVRT and it is working well... I was just looking for a record of long term success.
Hi Tammy,

I've been using AVRT since 1981. Back then, my Beast was recognised by me as my alcoholic mind. Jack Trimpey founded Rational Recovery in 1986, years after I quit forever. With that in mind, I also made use of AA and Gestalt therapy.

However, and I didn't know it as a Big Plan, since there was no organised AVRT to be known, I first created my own Big Plan by detoxing and quitting that day back in July 1981, and all days after, forever more.

It is worth noting that AVRT really is not suitable for comparisons when looking at longevity numbers. It really dosen't matter with AVRT.

Why are you interested in a record of long term success?

Cheers!
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I worry the impact AVRT has had on my sobriety will wear off. I've made my big plan. I recognize my AV and shut it down, but because sometimes my AV is so strong - I wonder if my resolve will wear in time.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I am glad you posted again, Tammy, I wondered if there was some more grist for this mill.

My AVRT has grown and deepened over the last year, and there have been a couple of milestones where the ideas gelled and took solid form. One of them was when I understood that the AV can get as loud as it wants to, but since my plan is in place and it can't make me drink no matter what it says, the beast can't make me scared about drinking again. That was a little muddled. How about this - Since I will never drink again no matter what, my beast has no power over me, and its ranting won't frighten me, or make me doubt myself.

Wondering if your resolve will weaken someday, is the classic embodiment of the beast. When you come to understand that, and accept that you will hear its voice sometimes, you will become more content and secure.

Thanks for posting again, Tammy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I worry the impact AVRT has had on my sobriety will wear off. I've made my big plan. I recognize my AV and shut it down, but because sometimes my AV is so strong - I wonder if my resolve will wear in time.
We really don't want to "shut down" our AV. There is no advantage to dismissing or otherwise being "done" with our AV. It's really a life-time thing. Its way more rewarding to go with the flow of our AV, follow thru on recognising your AV as deeply as you can go. Forget being afraid. Push past all fears. Have courage.

We also don't have to think about our resolve wearing down. We don't compete with our AV, its not a battle to win or lose. We recognise our AV against the background of our Big Plan. We can readily see from your post I'm quoting, that you have some doubts about AVRT's effects wearing off, and then eventually, you worry your sobriety is weakened, and that your resolve is weakened.

All that doubt is actually AV itself.

Have no concerns about AV itself. AV is a normal experience. Become comfortable with recognising your AV.

Tammy, put your energy into AVRT, and eventually your AV will be so quickly realised and recognised, you won't even give it a second thought. My use of AVRT is really effortless and simplistic. My AV is very distinct and clear, easily recognised, and easily accepted for exactly what it is, and nothing else more or less ==> my AV is simply the voice of my Beast. End of story. My AV is not my voice. I speak to myself with a sober voice.

To put it simply, I'm not working really hard to stay alcohol free, and to happily enjoy my life. I've been thru alot now over the years, both good and bad, and my sobriety just keeps getting stronger, and more adaptive to my lifestyle.

Longevity in sobriety, I suppose, affords me many positive experiences of knowing first hand just how awesomely abundant AVRT is as an intimate and essential reality in my sans-alcohol life.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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freshstart57 and RobbyRobot: I sincerely thank you for the time you took to post a reply. The focused attention feels good, but the wisdom you share feels even better. Again, thank you. You've done a great deal for me. - Tammy
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Everyone benefits from posts like yours, Tammy, so thanks goes to you! Keep 'em coming.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wow, what an interesting discussion. A great question Tammy, and I see you've already received some great answers. You sound like you are coming along very well. I see you only getting stronger and surer, just as the others have described.

I'm glad to see this discussion for another reason, too. It touches on a topic someone else recently raised on another thread. The person—who's been well served by another approach to recovery, and is understandably enthusiastic in championing it—mused in a post about people who come to SR, discover AVRT, say they're doing great, and then disappear. He said something vaguely ominous like, "I always wonder what happened to them."

That was actually an aside in a wider discussion, which I guess hit a few nerves, as the mods shut down the thread before I had a chance to reply. Darn it! Probably just as well, lol...

Anyway, what I wanted to say then is what others have already touched on here: The disappearance of AVRT users from SR is a sign of success, not failure. What happened to them? They made a Big Plan. They don't need SR anymore. Those who do stick around, do it for other reasons. I've been impressed how many people on the AVRT threads speak of them the way Freshstart just did—as a source of information and inspiration for others who stumble upon AVRT here (the way many of us did). I still come here mostly because I'm intellectually curious about addiction, and maybe a little sentimental about the forums, too. SR helped me. Big. Time.

But I'm coming up on two years sober in December, and I find myself spending less and less time here. If I disappeared tomorrow, people should feel free to wonder if I was run over by a bus, or indicted by a grand jury, or abducted by time-traveling dwarves, but no one should ever waste a second wondering if I'm still sober.

Thanks again for posting!
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Tammy, you are doing awsome!

Feels great dosent it? I'm loving every second of my new life. I only have 14 days done, but I see it as "I'm only 14 days old in my new life, I'm young again" LOL!
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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On the eve of my one year sobriety anniversary, I'm reviewing the threads that were pivotal to my decision to make a Big Plan, to never drink again and to practise AVRT.

My AV was screaming in the run-up, as I voraciously read the six-part main AVRT, plus every AVRT related thread here in Secular Connections.

As I learnt, a recurrent AV theme developed and grew in my mind, on a loop, summarised by: "sounds great, subsequently backed by modern day neuro-science, but where is the evidence on SR; where are all the folks who practice it, celebrating yearly milestones."

I learnt that a foundation stone of AVRT is not counting days or celebrating milestones, that would provide the alcohol addicted part of my brain with too much leverage and ammunition. So when I discovered this thread started by Tammy, the AVs attempt to dissuade me from making a Big Plan, failed.

And of course, my great mentor and cheerleader in those early days, Freshstart57 replied here too, back in 2012: the very same fabulous man who posted the AVRT thread, which I read repeatedly, which is stickied at the top of the Secular forum. I wanted what he had and due to SR, I found it.

A shift occurred in my psyche, such that, I know within my 'soul' or 'authentic self' or 'higher brain', that I will never drink again. AVRT isn't for the faint hearted, it's premised upon a pledge that the 'alcoholic' will never drink again and never change their mind.

But that same pledge, is its rock-solid strength, because any 'thoughts, feelings or emotions, cravings, urges or suchlike' are highlighted against the backdrop of my authentic-self, now a non-drinker and no longer an alcoholic. It is almost miraculous, the sorry two decades of daily drinking, the last five of which were wretched, first drinks in the morning: are consigned to my history. At a year on, neuro-plasticity has worked its magic (although in reality,miss just the reversal of the addiction process) and I hear very little AV, almost none-existent, since the first 90 days, the traditional habit imprint/deprint length.

I wanted to bump this, in case any newcomers or lurkers are dissuaded from AVRT by their AV using the same date counting tactics and lack of footfall here I. secular, as mine attempted.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I've got a shout out for Freshstart57 too! He's not too active on here these days, busy I'm sure living a sober fulfilling life, but he was and is a mentor of mine too.

One year is amazing Tatsy! I must confess that I do count time, but I see it as counting the time since I freed myself and my new life began.

AVRT is just the name for the technique that everyone uses who quits anything they were addicted to. I used it for tobacco and cocaine although I didn't know it at the time. It's quitting and never changing you mind no matter what. Everyone can do it, it's that people have been told that they can't and that it's supposed to be so hard that they can never ever really consider doing it without some kind of treatment or conversion, and that's a real shame because it's simply not true.

Congrats again Tatsy! You have been a total inspiration to me and it was your guidance and unwavering support during my first few months that helped me believe in myself. You rock sister!
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Old 09-08-2017, 03:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The question itself and the discussion thereof is pure AV.
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Old 09-08-2017, 03:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The question itself and the discussion thereof is pure AV.
Yes, indeed. That's why I 'bumped' it. My AV loved the question and sought to use it as an illustration that AVRT didn't have a track record, when, of course, it does, as Zenchaser has noted above

Hi Zen, Thankyou, my soberite sister! It's incalculable what can be achieved when someone engenders a belief in oneself and ones power, can achieve.

I'm humbled that you found my words beneficial as you learnt AVRT. I benefitted from your posts too, you asked questions and wrote posts, that elicited great responses from others. to include one from Algorithm, which I recall to this day.

I find that my control over my addicted sub-conscious mind, which AVRT calls the Beast (albeit connected to my conscious mind via the AV) has extended into dismissal of other recurrent habitual thoughts and faulty belief systems.

We have the power.......I'd post a link to the song, but my iPads almost discharged!
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Well done on your first year Tatsy! Your posts always inspired me too with their encouragement, wisdom and passionate and lyrical enthusiasm!
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Big congratulations on a year Tatsy. Your recovery is glowing.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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that's today then for your anniversary, so sending congratulations.
Never mind you're not counting....way to go!
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Well done on your first year Tatsy! Your posts always inspired me too with their encouragement, wisdom and passionate and lyrical enthusiasm!
Thank you Aleric, for your kind words. I have found your posts insightful, particularly when you raised questions that I hadn't thought of.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Big congratulations on a year Tatsy. Your recovery is glowing.
Thank you, Shockozulu, for your kind word, plus, your unwavering support for, and moderation of Secular Connections - such a special corner of SR.
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