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The "REAL" work ??

Old 09-07-2012, 02:02 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I was just clicking around some of the threads here and noticed a comment about dating, written by someone who views "recovery" as a lifelong process. This person said that anyone she dates has to understand that her "recovery" comes first--ahead of her relationships.

And I thought, you know, that is quite a perspective. It allows the person to view much of life as a never-ending struggle against an alcoholic death...it allows her to sweep everything she feels is helpful to her "recovery" into that life and death battle and it allows her to feel justified in putting herself first all the time.

I'm not saying that remaining abstinent is unimportant. It isn't: it's critical, as we all know. But equating recovery with life itself elevates our own lives above those of our loved ones. THEY are just living their lives; WE are engaged in an epic battle against death.

I don't know. I love myself a whole lot but...I don't think I am that special.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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FreshStart-I have done some basic research into SMART. I plan to investigate this further. Couldn't find info on the other recovery groups (CRA, SOS, CRAFT) you mentioned. Is their another name for these? Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth View Post
I was just clicking around some of the threads here and noticed a comment about dating, written by someone who views "recovery" as a lifelong process. This person said that anyone she dates has to understand that her "recovery" comes first--ahead of her relationships.

And I thought, you know, that is quite a perspective. It allows the person to view much of life as a never-ending struggle against an alcoholic death...it allows her to sweep everything she feels is helpful to her "recovery" into that life and death battle and it allows her to feel justified in putting herself first all the time.

I'm not saying that remaining abstinent is unimportant. It isn't: it's critical, as we all know. But equating recovery with life itself elevates our own lives above those of our loved ones. THEY are just living their lives; WE are engaged in an epic battle against death.

I don't know. I love myself a whole lot but...I don't think I am that special.
Great post OTT - bang on in my opinion!
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:41 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I have problems, just like every other person on earth. In the past I wanted to blame my drinking on those problems, but the reality is they were just an excuse to justify getting drunk.

I finally realized that my drinking was my biggest problem of all. So I quit. Check that one off.

I think we all need to do what works for us as individuals. AVRT works for me. I wish it did for everyone, because the idea of being powerless over anything for the rest of my life makes me shudder. That seems like an awful lot of energy spent fighting something that really has no power over you at all.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lovetosail View Post
FreshStart-I have done some basic research into SMART. I plan to investigate this further. Couldn't find info on the other recovery groups (CRA, SOS, CRAFT) you mentioned. Is their another name for these? Thanks.
LovetoSail, you betcha. Here's what I found (by googling the acronym and 'alcohol'):The third link seems to concern a 'friends and family' approach to the first link.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:52 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Auvers, the more I think about your post, the more it is making me wonder. I hope you don't mind if I pose a question of my own to the experienced posters here...

I keep reading on this site about there being a difference between staying sober and being recovered; a difference between dry and sober; the need to do the "real" work after getting sober.

Question: Does the program that shall not be named believe that anyone is ever "recovered?"

Auvers, congrats on your months of sobriety!
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:47 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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It's not uncommon for people to put something first and foremost in their lives — careers, religion, art, sports, Facebook. I have no interest in a lifelong recovery program. But to each his own, ya know?

My two cents: I think we should focus on what we like about what we're doing.

Originally Posted by Bob Dylan

In a soldier’s stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I’d become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
I'm really glad to see these secular threads getting so active. You guys rock.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:59 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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yeah - if you guys have AA questions there many other forums to ask those questions.
12 step topics are off topic for this forum

D
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Thank-you so much for these references. I'm relieved to know I have some choices.
My sponser in aa is allowing me to skip step 3 for now. Just don't think I'm gonna change my mind, but I'm willing to do just about anything to avoid relapse.
I've ordered the smart handbook-anxious to give it a try.
You guys have been most helpful.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:23 PM
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Glad to have you here, lovetosail.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:57 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MrsKing View Post
For me, as soon as I took alcohol out of the equation, my life improved pretty much by itself. There was no work involved. I sometimes catch myself questioning those sorts of posts too - am I just a dry drunk? Am I not yet 'recovered'? Is being sober alone not enough? I don't know the answer to those questions, but what I do know is that as soon as I stopped drinking, my life improved dramatically... For me, I drank because I was depressed, which in turn made me more depressed. As soon as I stopped drinking my depression lifted...
This post spoke directly to me. Removing alcohol from my life has made an almost immediate difference. I'm glad to read stories from others who don't have elaborate strategies for "recovery." My life is just better and richer without booze. I plan to keep it that way.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:55 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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I have to admit now, it don't matter to me anymore if one is in AA or secular, or whatever works for you to stay off the alcohol because it made your life unmanageable after the first drink.

The "fix" for me is to see another recover from the drink, to see another human being begin to enjoy life again with some hope for the future and more hope to try and mend their past and help another

Secular or Spiritual, if drinking caused you problems, and ya drove a car or operated machinery where other's live were at stake, alcohol offers no mercy....
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:25 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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I just stumbled upon this thread. It is awesome, and I have been wondering the same thing. Wondering if I don't "do recovery" will I be missing out on some serious personal/emotional and (dare I say) spiritual development. I am glad to see from everyone's responses here that without the alcohol/drugs, life becomes richer and more satisfying. Cool. This helps A LOT as I am on day 1 number gazillion wondering which "path" to take on this renewed effort at staying sober.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:45 AM
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Mere abstinence is not the be-all and end-all. But when it comes to alcoholism, it most certainly is. There may be other stuff that needs work, but you can get to that effectively only if you are sober.

Glad to have you here, Lilac. I hope that you find something here that sticks for you. Feel free to start your own thread - everybody benefits. If you aren't comfortable with that yet for any reason, just send me a pm.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:28 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Auvers View Post
I keep reading on this site about there being a difference between staying sober and being recovered; a difference between dry and sober; the need to do the "real" work after getting sober.
As some have slightly & obscurely hinted at - these are precepts of AA. In my opinion they are as bogus (for me) as the rest of the AA cult dogma. I am not posting this to trash AA. It works for some. I think it is important for the OP to get a straight answer. Yes this is a secular forum. It would seem to me that the OP has read some posts from the more AA oriented forums and was confused. I see no harm in explaining where those concepts come from and even discussing them. Are we afraid of getting cooties?
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:18 AM
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I had my first counseling appointment yesterday. It was good but interesting when my drinking came up (I brought it up to get it out of the way).

ME: Well, yes, XYZ happened a little over a year ago and I'm struggling with it. And I guess I'll put it out there since I'm sure it'll come up in discussion at some point. I drank alot but no longer do. But because of XYZ event, I feel as if I'm struggling with certain things.

HER: Let's discuss the drinking.

ME: I drank a lot. I no longer do. It's no longer an issue. But XYZ is.

HER: What do you mean it's not a problem? How did you reach a point where it's no longer a problem?

ME: I made the choice to never drink again, so I don't.

HER: Just like that?

ME: Yes.

HER: How? How did you do that? I don't understand.

At this point, I'm thinking "We have 50 minutes. I laid out what the problem is I wanted to discuss (XYZ) and what is NOT a problem (Drinking) and she wants to waste valuable time discussing something that is resolved?

ME: I used Rational Recovery methods and AVRT. I tried AA, it didn't work for me.

HER: How didn't AA work for you?

ME: It's very negative. It kept me focused on the 'problem' to the exclusion to everything else. But my drinking isn't the problem. XYZ is.

HER: Did you go to enough meetings?

ME: Yes. Hundreds. Basically, my meetings showed me that I am hopeless, never going to get better, I am horribly flawed and in need of someone else to make my decisions. I was taught that I am emotionally, spiritually and mentally sick. But I'm not. I drank too much. I decided I no longer wanted to drink, so I no longer drink. That simple. It was an urge. I get urges daily. I don't act on them. I don't hit on my friend's hot husband. I don't cuss out the checker at the store who is taking forever. And I don't drink.

HER: Interesting.

At this point I realized one thing: In so many facets of our life, we are taught to be self-empowered and that we have the ability to get through things on our own accord. We may rely on others for a bit to get the necessary tools to do it, but in the end, it's up to us. But when it comes to addiction, it's a whole different ballgame. We are taught "Once an addict, always an addict. It's a disease we cannot get rid of.

But it's not true. Many people, every day, recover from addiction on their own. They reach that point of saying "This is enough. I'm done" and they are.

I have a friend who quit drinking 5 years ago. She laid there one night and said "I'm done" and she hasn't had a drink since. The same with an ex-boyfriend. He was walking because one of his drug buddies stole his car. He decided "I'm done" and hasn't used in almost 6 years.

I'm sorry if I'm rambling. But my point is this: I'm no longer consider myself in recovery. I am a person who drank and now I'm a person who doesn't drink.

I am also not a "dry" drunk. Because one thing I have realized very strongly over the past few weeks is this: personal issues that need to be worked on for me were present way before I ever picked up a drink. I will work on those imperfections to be a better person. But it's not a part of my recovery, it's just part of being a mature adult.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:22 AM
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MissyShelle, I love your recount of your experience with the counselor. That has been my experience exactly many times, except for the part about not having drank for quite some time. Everything with counselors, once heavy drinking is brought up, comes down to the drinking. No wonder I've been so confused. I've been in and out of the recovery cycle for four years now.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:36 AM
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:06 AM
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I thought it may be interesting (or not) to share I'm also recovered. I have no problem with also saying I'm a recovered alcoholic drug addict, and I have alcoholism as an illness. My illness is kept alseep, inert, unempowered, and I have sobriety. My spiritul understandings and experiences with my sobriety are not supernatural, and are entirely within myself. No outside deity keeps me sober.

I just saying, being recovered does not always equate to a requirement to NOT be an alcoholic. Yes, I'm a non-drinker too, and I'm still yet though, and happily so, a recovered alcoholic drug addict, no less.

Cheers!
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