Secular Newcomers' Discussion Thread
Shape-Shifting Super-Hero
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eating Tofu!
Posts: 882
I posted on the other thread today, after a while away.
I'm having trouble finding the motivation to get started, again, here. I read the AVRT stuff, and I find it's hard to relate to the 'beast' stuff. I mean, I get the metaphor, but it seems, well, kinda hard to relate to, as I don't see beats as all that bad, in some sense, and that darkness is as much a part of us as is light, in a Jungian sense.
In ways, I think the approach I have tried to craft is one that allows both aspects of cognitive/behavioral approaches, but extends them to include looking at the person as a whole, what you might call the 'psycho-dynamic' school of thought, and also, how we interact with the world around us, the 'roles' we have come to play, and the 'roles' others are playing. And, along with this, perhaps because I am not a spiritual person in particular, a respect for nature, beauty, literature and art, even if it is dark, but cathartic.
Maybe this is a new starting point. I am really trying.
I think, talking to people helps me, especially in person...here is good, too, the chat thing can be hard for me, but I am willing to try, sometimes...
Good luck to anyone else out there trying to make is past a week, for now, and those who have made it longer, even if I know it seems funny to invoke 'luck', as it also takes work, though it has always baffled me how some find a path, and others, well, they keep wandering.
For now, I have to be careful, and not judge myself as a horrible failure of a person who has messed up in life well before even taking a sip, and who may as well drink...that has been a big motivator, those thoughts.
I'm having trouble finding the motivation to get started, again, here. I read the AVRT stuff, and I find it's hard to relate to the 'beast' stuff. I mean, I get the metaphor, but it seems, well, kinda hard to relate to, as I don't see beats as all that bad, in some sense, and that darkness is as much a part of us as is light, in a Jungian sense.
In ways, I think the approach I have tried to craft is one that allows both aspects of cognitive/behavioral approaches, but extends them to include looking at the person as a whole, what you might call the 'psycho-dynamic' school of thought, and also, how we interact with the world around us, the 'roles' we have come to play, and the 'roles' others are playing. And, along with this, perhaps because I am not a spiritual person in particular, a respect for nature, beauty, literature and art, even if it is dark, but cathartic.
Maybe this is a new starting point. I am really trying.
I think, talking to people helps me, especially in person...here is good, too, the chat thing can be hard for me, but I am willing to try, sometimes...
Good luck to anyone else out there trying to make is past a week, for now, and those who have made it longer, even if I know it seems funny to invoke 'luck', as it also takes work, though it has always baffled me how some find a path, and others, well, they keep wandering.
For now, I have to be careful, and not judge myself as a horrible failure of a person who has messed up in life well before even taking a sip, and who may as well drink...that has been a big motivator, those thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
Hey, hey, it's the secular forums' very own HP! Good to see you, brother. You're no failure. In fact, as Dalek recently observed, through the lens of AVRT you'd be considered a success at drinking--a choice was made, and followed through on. I say the mere fact you're here shows you've got grit, and grit can make all the difference. 
On a side note, I want to thank you for giving these threads a kickstart recently. You complained about a lack of activity, and it seems to have picked up ever since. See that? A pattern of success is emerging already.... Welcome back.
PS: Remember that you're addicted to a depressant, bathing your brain in it. The life I thought I'd messed up starting looking a lot better after I put some distance between me and that last drink.
On a side note, I want to thank you for giving these threads a kickstart recently. You complained about a lack of activity, and it seems to have picked up ever since. See that? A pattern of success is emerging already.... Welcome back.
PS: Remember that you're addicted to a depressant, bathing your brain in it. The life I thought I'd messed up starting looking a lot better after I put some distance between me and that last drink.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 31
Hi everyone,
I am glad there is a secular section of this blog. I have nothing against religious people but it makes me uncomfortable the idea that people do not have the power to change their lives. Smokers quit all the time without reference to a higher power and I don't think drinking should be any different. I personally think handing over your problems to someone else is a bit of a cop out!
I am glad there is a secular section of this blog. I have nothing against religious people but it makes me uncomfortable the idea that people do not have the power to change their lives. Smokers quit all the time without reference to a higher power and I don't think drinking should be any different. I personally think handing over your problems to someone else is a bit of a cop out!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
Hi, GH. Welcome aboard! I take full ownership of my choices as well. It's really empowering after spending so long relegated to the passenger seat while I allowed my addiction called the shots.
I wouldn't call it a cop-out for someone to enlist the guidance of a higher power. Whatever works, I say. But for me, flying solo works just fine, no co-pilot needed.
I wouldn't call it a cop-out for someone to enlist the guidance of a higher power. Whatever works, I say. But for me, flying solo works just fine, no co-pilot needed.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 945
Welcome gingerhero
Well well well.... I've got my Allen Carr book, I'm on page 64 at the moment. It is good, very good in fact. I know, I have been nearly a year sober, but my goodness, it does make sense! Its all about learning isn't it? I had to give up alcohol because of liver disease, and I was thoroughly in denial before hand. But your thinking CAN be changed and I am getting stronger and not under the illusion that I can ever drink alcohol again.
He does waffle a bit at the beginning, but as I'm reading the light of understanding is getting brighter in my brain. The fact that I'm sitting in the garden and smoking while reading it probably means a purchase of his other book in the future!!!
Thoroughly recommended!
I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of others who have read it.
Well well well.... I've got my Allen Carr book, I'm on page 64 at the moment. It is good, very good in fact. I know, I have been nearly a year sober, but my goodness, it does make sense! Its all about learning isn't it? I had to give up alcohol because of liver disease, and I was thoroughly in denial before hand. But your thinking CAN be changed and I am getting stronger and not under the illusion that I can ever drink alcohol again.
He does waffle a bit at the beginning, but as I'm reading the light of understanding is getting brighter in my brain. The fact that I'm sitting in the garden and smoking while reading it probably means a purchase of his other book in the future!!!
Thoroughly recommended!
I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of others who have read it.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
HP, it was your posts that got me writing here, so thanks for that. Thanks, too, for this last one. I can relate! more later, but wanted to wave to you - and to everyone else who popped in!
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
You're right. I think people have heard of the beast but haven't done the work to discover the concept behind the term. So I read people describing dueling and battling and being otherwise engaged in some sort of battle, when really - that's not the point.
The point is: recognize it. disregard it. the end.
The point is: recognize it. disregard it. the end.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Obladi 
You're right. I think people have heard of the beast but haven't done the work to discover the concept behind the term. So I read people describing dueling and battling and being otherwise engaged in some sort of battle, when really - that's not the point.
The point is: recognize it. disregard it. the end.
The point is: recognize it. disregard it. the end.
recognize it
disengage from, disavow, and disown it
continue along the thinking/feeling continuum
For sure, dueling and battling with the Beast is in itself addictive voice.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
Reminds me of that sign they had in England during WWII, "Keep Calm and Carry On".
You got it, Obladi. The beast is only doing what it's supposed to do. We all have a purpose in this world, eh? But your purpose no longer aligns with its purpose, and since you're calling all the shots, it's just plain out of luck.
You got it, Obladi. The beast is only doing what it's supposed to do. We all have a purpose in this world, eh? But your purpose no longer aligns with its purpose, and since you're calling all the shots, it's just plain out of luck.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4
I am so glad I found this thread! I am 14 days sober and went to my first SOS meeting last night. I'm from the Bible Belt, so it's actually quite difficult to find any group not affiliated with AA and religion. As an agnostic, I do not find the AA approach palatable but know that some sort of outside support is an absolute necessity to my staying sober.
I have not looked into the other groups (AVRT, Smart, etc...) as I never heard of them before coming to this page. I will now do more research.
Thank you, thank you, for being here.
I have not looked into the other groups (AVRT, Smart, etc...) as I never heard of them before coming to this page. I will now do more research.
Thank you, thank you, for being here.
Member of SMART Recovery
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Veggiejojo
Hi, great to see a secular forum on here. I am just staring my third day, and like imaginepeace I haven't heard about the other groups - will def. look into them, x
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
VeggieJojo, welcome to the secular side. It's great to have you here! There is a great deal of support of the sort you are looking for. Add to any thread here that catches your attention, or start your own.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 242
When I googled "Addictive Voice Recognition Technique" it brought me to a Rational Recovery website and a page that gave me a "crash course on AVRT". The first thing that really clicked for me was a diagram of our brain. It shows the parts of the brain that are controled by our rational thinking (The Human Brain) vs. the part of the brain that is driven by nothing but the desire for survival and pleasure (The Beast Brain).
That is when it started making sense for me. There is a part of my brain that only wants what feels good, no matter what the cost. As a matter of fact, it doesn't realize that there is a cost, it just wants to feel pleasure. That is when I started thinking of my "Beast" as demanding toddler. A baby doesn't rationalize what is good or bad for it, it just wants what it wants.
Being able to identify that the AV in my head was coming from a part of my brain that wasn't capable of making rational decisions helped me understand why my cravings were so strong despite my desire to not drink. Being able to separate my rational brain from my toddler brain lets me look at my cravings with the same tolerance I would a two year old throwing themselves on the floor and kicking and screaming.
The kicking and screaming sucks, but if I give into it that spoiled baby is just going to get more unmanagable by the day. Better to pick it up, put it in its room, and shut the door. It's still there throwing a fit, but eventually it will realize I'm not going to give in to it. The more I stand my ground, the fewer fits it will throw.
I haven't read enough to be any kind of authority on AVRT, I just wanted to share my experience because it worked so quickly for me. I am no longer doing battle with my rational self, and it feels really good.
That is when it started making sense for me. There is a part of my brain that only wants what feels good, no matter what the cost. As a matter of fact, it doesn't realize that there is a cost, it just wants to feel pleasure. That is when I started thinking of my "Beast" as demanding toddler. A baby doesn't rationalize what is good or bad for it, it just wants what it wants.
Being able to identify that the AV in my head was coming from a part of my brain that wasn't capable of making rational decisions helped me understand why my cravings were so strong despite my desire to not drink. Being able to separate my rational brain from my toddler brain lets me look at my cravings with the same tolerance I would a two year old throwing themselves on the floor and kicking and screaming.
The kicking and screaming sucks, but if I give into it that spoiled baby is just going to get more unmanagable by the day. Better to pick it up, put it in its room, and shut the door. It's still there throwing a fit, but eventually it will realize I'm not going to give in to it. The more I stand my ground, the fewer fits it will throw.
I haven't read enough to be any kind of authority on AVRT, I just wanted to share my experience because it worked so quickly for me. I am no longer doing battle with my rational self, and it feels really good.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
You sound like a pretty reliable authority to me, AklaskaGirl. I love that analogy. Happy to say both my AV and my daughter now know better than to pull that crap on me.
Really good to see you posting here and elsewhere.
Really good to see you posting here and elsewhere.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
