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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 5

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 5

Old 09-21-2012, 01:09 PM
  # 201 (permalink)  
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That was a great feeling of freedom, NewBeginning, and a new found source of pride when I met that situation. The first time I had the opportunity to say no to a drink, I wanted to add a big 'Booyah' at the end. That was fun.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:58 PM
  # 202 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NewBeginning010 View Post
In regards to the beast, can it also be alcohol? Is that good or bad? While I was at a concert last night I found myself reacting to seeing alcohol all around me as glasses of the devils poison, this was the first time that I had thought like that I am wondering if it may be connected to my recent mental images of the beast (Urge to drink).
As others have pointed out, the Beast is not alcohol itself, but being the desire for alcohol, the Beast (through the AV) is certainly the prime mover that would instigate its consumption. A key skill in the AVRT arsenal is "shifting", where we alternate between our point of view and that of the Beast. It can be useful to visualize the Beast in the bottle, so to speak, particularly in social situations such as you describe, and I don't see viewing alcohol as the devil's poison as incorrect.

Don't presume that such imagery will deter the Beast from its agenda in any way, however, which is a mistake some learn the hard way. Even if you see it as the devil's drink, the Beast is still going to want that alcohol. The idea in shifting is not to try and scare the Beast away with an imaginary skull and crossbones or other scarecrow, because the Beast won't be deterred, but rather to shift into our own right mind when the Beast pops up. You can't change the Beast's perception of alcohol, but you can certainly change your own perception of it, and see it both ways.

If the devil's drink imagery does the trick, by all means use it. When you get a chance, see if you can let the Beast out, though, and switch back and forth between how the Beast sees alcohol, and how you see it. Imagine actually drinking it, and allow yourself to feel the desire for the stuff. Some people will tell you that you shouldn't feel any desire, but don't worry, it won't hurt you. Do this a few times, switching back and forth between the Beast and yourself. After doing this a few times, it will be very easy to flip into your right mind when the Beast pops up "unannounced", without you planning it.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:41 PM
  # 203 (permalink)  
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AVRT is "too simple, too easy."

I posted this on another thread in response to Tammy's remark, quoted below, but since I don't remember this being discussed here before, I asked her if I could re-post it. As most of you already know, all self-doubt about lifetime abstinence is Addictive Voice, simply because it suggests the possibility of future use. The idea that AVRT is "too simple, too easy" is an all-too-common form of self-doubt, which is often reinforced by people who insist that recovery is "very difficult, but not impossible."

Comments welcome.

Originally Posted by tammy711
I've found AVRT incredibly easy. Almost too easy, so I stay cautious and alert.
The idea that AVRT is "too simple, too easy" is pure Addictive Voice. It suggests that what you have done is insufficient, and that there is something else that needs doing, or else the Beast will get you to drink. Without recognizing it as AV, the result is uncertainty about future abstinence. Your AV is sowing seeds of doubt with this idea, and this is probably the reason you still feel a need to stay cautious and alert, as if waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:21 PM
  # 204 (permalink)  
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Ok, I'll take the bait.

Isn't one of the tools (perhaps the only tool) in the AVRT toolshed awareness of the AV? If one doesn't stay alert - cautious or otherwise - might one not become lulled into "forgetting" on behalf of the beast?
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:36 PM
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Obladi, I think I know what you are saying, that we need to be alert for the AV to the extent that we need to maintain a tuned ear looking for the voice of the beast.

I think AVRT is a specific instance of mindfulness practice, but I don't think we need to become aware in any particular manner. The Big Plan serves to strip away all the shrubbery and AV hiding spots so that no special awareness is required. The more conviction your Big Plan has, the easier this becomes.

JT mentions the process of making your Big Plan into a moral issue for you, and this brings to bear your entire core of being into your conviction. I know an SR member who lost her husband and 6 week old daughter in a split second to a drunken driver who ran a stop sign in a residential neighbourhood at 80 miles per hour. Three people died in that instant and the carnage was horrific. By considering that I might drink again, I imagine that I could conceivably drive while impaired. I have done it before, I am sad to say. I use this experience of my friend to mean that if I were to drink again I would be putting other's lives at risk, others like her infant child and her husband, her childhood sweetheart. This connection makes me ill. Drinking ever again is now a moral issue for me, and I need no special awareness to detect that Voice.

As Dalek suggested, we now have an unconditional sobriety, we no longer need to do anything in order to stay sober. I am done drinking now for good.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:52 AM
  # 206 (permalink)  
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I've read all the pages since my last response here (on page 5 I think it was) and wanted to say a very heartfelt THANK YOU for the time you are taking to work AVRT.

Been through a couple computer crashes and the loss of my cherished 17-yr-old feline Freya and bureaucratic endeavors that must be repeated ad nauseum in order to reach the desired goal. Also visited my father who is showing possible signs of Alzheimer's. he'll be 82 in Feb so we all need to figure out which of many potential problems it could be.

RR/AVRT is surprisingly clear and freeing to my A's family and to me. My MIL bought the RR book for a couple of other people too.

good to be back and read your words and hear your thoughts. you rock.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:46 PM
  # 207 (permalink)  
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Wow, I didn't realise that so many people were keen on RR. I was actually doing a search because I'm selling my AVRT Live! DVD set (probably on Ebay) Do get in touch if you are interested and I'll send you the link.

(I don't drink anymore, Jack Trimpey helped me wise up, smart man incidentally)
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:58 PM
  # 208 (permalink)  
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Wow, I just read the AVRT course and it is amazing! It makes so much sense.

I think I will reread tomorrow because it struck a cord.

Toss
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:45 AM
  # 209 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Toss
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:48 AM
  # 210 (permalink)  
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hi again AVRT friends,

well my AH isn't letting anything work. evidently alcohol is more important to him than any of us are. I'm angry and hurt and any number of things. I will be putting the car title back in my name - I brought it into the marriage - because I said that was what I was going to do. He finally found good work, didn't drink for six weeks, started again, signed another agreement with us to never drink again with nothing changing his mind/made the Big Plan, and I guess now that he is having success with an income, he feels he needs to do something to botch it up. The difference in him is incredible. For a few weeks, I had the man I married, back. But now the Beast has him again. And the Beast has started poison arguments with me (I call them poison because when the Beast is in charge, it sees me as a threat and uses alcohol as the medium to attack me). I'm on disability, unable to work. And I am really hating his choice of the Beast over everything that could make his life good, and make our marriage good, and help me feel secure.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:13 AM
  # 211 (permalink)  
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Thanks for checking back in, Meredith, and I am sorry to hear how things are going for you and your husband now. I think about your earlier posts and how hopeful and optimistic you were. I pray that we get to hear that hope and optimism again from you soon. Best to you.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  # 212 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Since some terminology is different in the AVRT paradigm, I probably should have defined some terms so everyone is on the same footing.

Addiction:
Addiction is chemical use or dependence that exists against one's own better judgment, and persists in spite of efforts to control or eliminate the use of the substance. Addiction exists only in a state of ambivalence, in which one strongly wants to continue drinking alcohol or using other drugs, but also wants to quit or at least reduce the painful consequences.
Addictive Voice:
  1. Any thinking, mental image, or feeling that supports, or even suggests, your future use of alcohol or drugs.
  2. An expression of the appetite for pleasure induced by alcohol or drugs, or the Beast.
Beast:
  1. The desire to get high, to drink or use drugs.
  2. Addictive desire. Often used synonymously with "Addictive Voice," but more accurately, the appetite or desire for substance-induced pleasure.
  3. The Addictive Voice is to the Beast what a bark is to a dog.
Big Plan:
A transcending personal commitment to unconditional, permanent abstinence. The reasons for making a Big Plan can vary between individuals.
Recovery:
Secure, permanent abstinence. Nothing else.
Thought I would bump this post authored by TU who has superbly clarified the essential working elements of AVRT. The post is found in the first thread on the first section of this AVRT thread.

Awesome.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:07 PM
  # 213 (permalink)  
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After reading the info on rr, I realized that it's exactly how I quit smoking cigarettes. I told myself that regardless how I felt, I would never smoke again. My smoking friends couldn't understand how I could be in there presence while they smoked. It's just a choice. Make it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:07 AM
  # 214 (permalink)  
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Arrdubya: I've heard a few folks mention they "quit x" and didn't realize they were using AVRT. I have read that the concepts behind AVRT have been around since civilization. It has now been given a name and positioned to help those struggling with addiction.

I am very blessed and joyful that I was taught the basics of AVRT.

BTW: This is likely not for everyone, but I started an AVRT social group. Before an AVRT purist beats me up (*smile*), I created it for those seeking to learn more about AVRT. I was also hoping people could share their personal experiences so others might see the hope.



---
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:13 AM
  # 215 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by arrdubya
After reading the info on rr, I realized that it's exactly how I quit smoking cigarettes. I told myself that regardless how I felt, I would never smoke again. My smoking friends couldn't understand how I could be in there presence while they smoked. It's just a choice. Make it.
yes, yes, and yes.
Originally Posted by Tammy711
Before an AVRT purist beats me up
Hahahaaaa
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:25 AM
  # 216 (permalink)  
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I'm fairly new to sobriety. I have been doing 12 step for about three months. In that time I have had two relapses and have had alcohol on 6 days. I'm currently 30 days sober. So in 90 days I've had alcohol 6. In the 90 days prior to joining a 12 step I probably had alcohol in 50-60 days.

RR and AVRT makes more sense to me than 12 step but I really like the fellowship and find some of the people in the program a a help to my sobriety. I intend to use

That said the holidays will be rough for me this year. I'm struggling at work and am going through a divorce which though amicable is quite painful. I am going to have some social engagements where alcohol is present but it will be around a lot of people who don't know that I recently sober. I'm wondering if anyone has tips on how to handle yourself in those situations.

As a person I tend to be quite introverted, alcohol for me was a real social lubricant in that it 'helped' me to interact with others.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:45 AM
  # 217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BRD
I'm wondering if anyone has tips on how to handle yourself in those situations.
For me, once I decided that I was done once and for all and forever, social situations involving alcohol do not cause me anxiety. I don't drink, so what's to fear?

If you honestly feel like you are going to drink alcohol if you are around it, then for the moment I would not be around it. Anxiety, introversion, social phobia, while all very real...should not be used as an excuse for drinking. If you want to be involved in social situations, or for some reason have to be due to work etc, there are strategies you can learn for overcoming these.

If AVRT makes sense to you, read the RR book thoroughly. Effectively learning to identify, seperate from, and dismiss your addictive voice is the key. If you reread your post with that in mind, you may see that it is full of AV. It's jacking you around, playin with you right now. Don't let it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:31 AM
  # 218 (permalink)  
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Holy Blejiberishness! I don't have words for what I just stumbled upon.
Yesterday I was in the chat room and somebody (I need to remember who it was) mentioned AVRT and was asking about it. I never heard of it. They explained a little and I was like "meh, might as well check it out. Nothing to lose" kind of idea. I've read. and I think .... Holy SOB I think I got it.

It makes sense. Nothing else ever makes sense. THIS makes sense. I like it. I want it.
I'm 2+ years sober from alcohol and pills. I don't know to this day how exactly that happened.
My husband was 2.5 years clean from a 13yr crack addiction and relapsed last month and has slipped 3 more times since then.

He describes the wanting as a little monster in his head playing tug-a-war with the him inside his head. He has already on his own distinguished the differences between him and "it" and I think with AVRT he can really do this. I think this is a god send. Seriously I'm like at a loss for words with how much I truly believe this could work for him.

It's how he describes his problem. He just doesn't know what to do with his little monster that he describes. This could be exactly what he needs. I am forever grateful to that random member in the chat room asking about AVRT and I wish I remember who that was.

Sooo looking into this more and so happy I stumbled upon SR in the first place. People here are awesome
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:14 AM
  # 219 (permalink)  
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I've been called lots of things, but 'random' seems so, well, so arbitrary. I hope that AVRT helps you, DejaVu, and your husband with moving forward into secure sobriety. Best to you.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:19 AM
  # 220 (permalink)  
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Lol was it you in the chat room that brought it up? I want to do back flips over the simplicity and sense making of it all

Thanks for the kind wishes. Hopefully he finds it as helpful as I think he will.

It seems like the way he describes it could be so easily fit into the AVRT technique that I don't see why he couldn't benefit from it. We'll see. He has reading to do tonight after work
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