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some of you will be happy

Old 07-10-2012, 05:25 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
Hell yes i am going to announce my Big Plan.
That's fine, Ken, but just make sure that you are very clear about why you are doing so, and that you aren't doing it to be held accountable to others, for example. See the section titled "Personal Business" in the Rational Recovery book, on pages 200-202.

I will echo wellwisher's suggestion that you read through the AVRT discussion thread from the very beginning, and that you post any questions you may have on there. You probably won't find the same precision and quality of AVRT feedback elsewhere on this site. The thread covers a lot of ground, and reading through it will help you cement your understanding of the technique. Take a day or two and just go through it.

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Old 07-10-2012, 06:57 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Hi Ken - sorry I didn't see this until now. Most of the good stuff's already been said, so I'll just send some love out to you. I've done the same thing many times over the years, but I finally got it right. You will too.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:32 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Weasel1966-
You know I always got your back - right here! (this sounds corny but it just came to mind) Recovery is not a destination its the journey - and we are here for each other on
the journey. Keep keepin' sober my dear!!
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:17 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Sorry you hit a bump in the road Ken. I'm a firm believer in the idea that each of us has a road to travel and that we all have to find our own way through this thing. This little detour you've taken may seem like a setback but it may also be just the thing that allows you to better find your way.

For the longest time, I thought I had a big plan too. I really didn't though.

I think you're on the right track...
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:37 PM
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Hey weasel
Anyone who finds reason to be happy because you drank is not far from that first drink himself/herself. That's just how it works in this business.

Your honesty and courage to share your experience with us is admirable. You are one classy dude.
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:49 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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I'm not completely familiar with AVRT and such but I do know from my brief (but helpful) time I used SMART Recovery methods that they taught us that relapses might happen but aren't the end of the world and that you don't lose any "sober time" you just slip and pick yourself up again. Personally I think we learn the most from the stupidest/worst things we do. For example: now you know what triggered you and you can work on avoiding such triggers. Good luck!

...and I'd be the last to bash others and their recovery methods: whatever works for someone on a personal level is good, whether that be AA or a different method.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:50 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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I cannot tell everyone just how much your warm comments and encouragement means.

I did have a bad slip... so much so I have little memory of the actual event. It was dangerous in the place i was at. I will never be there again. Ever.

I cannot say I learned anything distinctively new but I can tell you my resolve to take care of myself was strengthened.

I will be spending today going over the recommended readings.

It was very hard to put my slip out there when I knew others told me they were expecting it. But this journey, as you all remind me, is not about them. I needed to make the slip public so that I can acknowledge it and move on.

I wrote in another thread a silly line.

Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

There are so many aspects to life that are enhanced from simply not being intoxicated. LOL... ok everything!

My love back at you all!

Ken
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:58 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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We are only human bud
I could have an alcoholic beverage anytime. Its only the knowledge of what happened to me last year that keeps me sober. For me, its physical... for others its emotional. Thats where you gotta find the strength. I sometimes question if I would have had the strength otherwise, who knows. You have! I know it! Thinking of you, and happy reading xxx
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:26 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Good Morning Weasel,

I was once told, and believe, that one of the most egregious things anyone can ever say ( or imply ) to you is, " I told you so."

Listen to your good heart.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:49 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
I cannot tell everyone just how much your warm comments and encouragement means.

I did have a bad slip... so much so I have little memory of the actual event. It was dangerous in the place i was at. I will never be there again. Ever.

I cannot say I learned anything distinctively new but I can tell you my resolve to take care of myself was strengthened.

I will be spending today going over the recommended readings.

It was very hard to put my slip out there when I knew others told me they were expecting it. But this journey, as you all remind me, is not about them. I needed to make the slip public so that I can acknowledge it and move on.

I wrote in another thread a silly line.

Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

There are so many aspects to life that are enhanced from simply not being intoxicated. LOL... ok everything!

My love back at you all!

Ken
Great to hear you being so positive and open-minded, Ken. It speaks volumes about ourselves how we forgive and otherwise tolerant others as we journey. You've taken the higher, less travelled road. Awesome.

Big Plans are always unconditonal, and so we are responsible to embrace our own struggles with a Big Plan as experiences not to ignore, or otherwise dismiss, but we are to mindfully acknowledge the opportunity within those struggles to perfect our lasting devotions, our inherent understanding of unconditional concepts, our strength of purpose, our victorious surrender to a life of abstinence. Your shares, imo, exemplify your appreciation for the unconditional nature of a Big Plan.

I've never had to re-create my original Big Plan, but I've very often, in the early years, had to re-create and perfect my understanding and appreciation of my sans-alcohol life. Unconditional abstinence defines and speaks for itself, and learning how to honestly and honorably live in a everyday practical world with such purpose, is indeed a wonderous, empowering, adventurous journey.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:37 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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"My mind has a hard time with absolute concepts such as 'never', and 'always'. To me any statements that use words like these are set-ups for failure."

I can't understand why people have a problem with the word NEVER. To me it just makes sense. Time isn't going to change the fact that I can't be a responsible moderate drinker and stay in control and have a good time while enjoying a couple drinks with friends. If you could have 2 or 3 drinks and have fun and go on your way with no ordeal then you probably wouldn't be here in the first place.

To me it's like the decision NOT to flirt with a cute 16 year old girl you see in the store, you don't do it because you KNOW the consequences of that action especially if she was receptive and tells when and where you can hook up like the alcohol always does. When you drink that first drink you KNOW what's gonna happen. I've had a problem wrapping my head around the moral part of AVRT but when I think of it like that it really works. I can look but I can't touch and the first drink always leads to misery. It might not be illegal but it's still morally wrong to myself and everybody in my life that has watched and listened to the excuses for my avoiding them in one way or another for literally years.

IMO if you can't say NEVER then I wonder how you've managed to stay out of prison all this time. Sooner or later something would have to happen. How do you stop yourself from stealing jewelry or taking that test driven Camry straight to your garage?
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:32 PM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Interesting analogies, imaquitter!

Except for the Camry bit. If I'm going to start stealing cars, I'm going to think a lot bigger than a Toyota, lol...
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Old 07-11-2012, 05:46 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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we are to mindfully acknowledge the opportunity within those struggles
This is great, Robby. Dalek was recently bringing this to my attention in his delicate, tentative, circumspect way (hmmm... you so remind me of someone I once knew, Dalek).

Anyway, I've been thinking about that a lot, even posted something about it a few minutes ago on a newcomer thread. That it isn't about being happy. Sure, that's often the case. It definitely has made my life a million times easier and more enjoyable. But the reward of abstinence is abstinence. And the bad times are, in their own way, even more satisfying.

So back to Ken. Ken, you're gonna make it. I have no doubt of that. That setback? That's just going to make your final victory even sweeter.

Oh crap... now Dalek's going to ask me "What if it doesn't make anything sweeter? What then?"
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:00 PM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble View Post
Anyway, I've been thinking about that a lot, even posted something about it a few minutes ago on a newcomer thread. That it isn't about being happy. Sure, that's often the case. It definitely has made my life a million times easier and more enjoyable. But the reward of abstinence is abstinence. And the bad times are, in their own way, even more satisfying.
Yeah, so true, ReadyAndAble.

Happiness is sourced from other, not from abstinence. Yeah, abstinence is so earnestly its own reward. How cool are simple understandings, yeah?

Thanks, ReadyAndAble.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:57 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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You know what I appreciate and like about RR and AVRT and the comments posted in this section.

It satisfies my intellect.

Not everyone can slice and dice life and the effects of our choices into the bite size pieces. I appreciate the decomposition of the simple and complex.

I certainly have a strong balance of my id in place. I find that I share more emotionally in the new comers area than I share here. Each area, for me, has a purpose.

Hope that makes sense.

Either way you look at it this thread, the comments in it have helped me grasp a stronger hold on my big plan. Each time I do I assume I have the perfect grip and will stand by that assumption until otherwise.

Thanks again!

And yes.... I still keep on reading.... There is a lot to take in.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:57 AM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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Dalek,

I read pages 200 and a few more as suggested. I see the point and understand why you pointed them out. Its appreciated.

I am also doing the exercise. I have done this before without realizing. It seems natural but to this point always passively.

Now I can do it explicitly and I think I will have a bit of an eye opener.

Things are a changin.....
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:07 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble View Post
That it isn't about being happy. Sure, that's often the case. It definitely has made my life a million times easier and more enjoyable. But the reward of abstinence is abstinence. And the bad times are, in their own way, even more satisfying.
Even if you aren't happy it's 1000s of times more enjoyable than being miserable all the time, and it progressively gets better just as the misery would continue to progressively get worse.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:24 PM
  # 58 (permalink)  
 
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Ken!! I havent been on for a while but I am so very glad you are here and reading up on AVRT!
"I have full faith in your capacity to recover, even if you (or in this case, others) do not."

You are fully capable. You alone. Validation from others, while lovely at times, is never necessary...in recovery or life in general.

I hope you will continue reading and join the dicussion in the AVRT thread. There is nothing like freedom from addiction.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:08 AM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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Hey everyone!

It has been almost two weeks since this post.

Last night I spent some good downtime reading my AVRT book more. I am going slow and doing all the actions listed.

I find that it takes some consideration when determining the slicker ways in which my AV works.

In my morning meditation this morning I focused on a single thought. "there is nothing to fear". I read my past posts last night as well and realized I mentioned that a lot.

My AV would have me continue to believe that fear is a hurdle.... Something to fear in itself.

I have put that to rest. I feel great and hopeful in contrast to past posts. That's due in large part because the single minded perspectives of AVRT agrees with me.

The other large part of this shift is due to you folks keeping me honest about things here on SR.

I have still struggled a lot over the last two weeks. But I can see those struggles were more about what's not being covered up by drinking and drugs more than staying abstinent. So I deal with things individually and not cloud each by trying to blame one thing on another. That's also my AV trying to confuse and block progress.

Ken
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:40 AM
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Good to hear, take care...
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