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Old 07-09-2012, 06:04 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Ken, you had a rough day yesterday, and I'm so sorry to hear that.

You made your Big Plan in a very public manner, that took courage, real courage. You also have the stones to make this most difficult of admissions. I have huge respect for that - that is a trait that I admire very much.

For those that bashed you, and even felt the need to do it in private, I have this to say to them. Your actions speak volumes about you and the quality of person you are. I have nothing but contempt.

Ken, you have a big opportunity here to make big gains, tremendous gains, as you travel on your journey. I know that you will wring every iota of meaning from this, and come back stronger and even more committed.

I had faith in you, and my faith in you is now even stronger. I know you will succeed. Best to you, Ken.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:50 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Weasel,

This is not easy (understatement). Most of us had at least a few false starts. Just use them as learning experiences and start over. It gets better if you don't drink. I think I know how you feel.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:25 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Ken - I say this with the best of intentions:

Get over to those AVRT threads and let them help you identify your AV.

Your choice is made and now to work!

I am angered and saddened that your experience with the PM is the direct result of an ongoing "feud" between differences in opinion on what works for people in recovery.

I know for me that crashing cymbals, trumpets blaring and dancing bears never held much appeal for me, and I easily tune them out. This cuts both ways from both camps and it really has to stop.

Loud and obnoxious usually makes me cover my ears, and as a result, I can't hear what is being said.

If each one of us steps back a bit and tries to remember what it was like to be a newcomer, what we say (or don't say) will have more of an impact and be a true service for those still struggling.

So, Ken, I say this with all sincerity - get over to the AVRT threads and get past the "gibberish" of it all. You have my support, and I believe in you.

No one is happy you drank; of that I am certain. Don't fear speaking honestly of your struggle and that it might be providing others with ammo. That is terrible you feel that way!

I am AA recovered but know that it is not for everyone. Sadly, I have a lot of people in my life, both here or now deceased, that have shown me that it is not for everyone. I wish everyone, no matter what method they use, success in getting addiction out of their lives.

My hope is that you will be treated more respectfully in the future, and you find peace and confidence to move forward on your path.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:26 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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To not come here and admit I drank and seek comfort in others who understand would make me a fool.

And I hate to be a fool more than I need to be.

Today is a rough one.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
My partner and I never get to be around others like us... so when in NYC yesterday we stopped in a place... I had no idea the effect it would have on me. I know... I should have... but i did not.

K
Actually, Ken, you are perfectly safe not knowing what effect anything will have on you, once you've made a Big Plan, and you are perfectly capable of making a Big Plan, even though you hadn't as of your last drink.

It took me some time to think about the meaning of "never again" when there was such a drive within to decide "yes, again".

I know RIGHT NOW that ABSOLUTELY ANY situation I find myself in, EVEN THEN, I will know that I took away the ability to even choose to drink. I cannot even contemplate a new decision making process about drinking. It's all over, forever. That's what a Big Plan means.

Go over in your mind what you were thinking when you had that first drink in the "place". What happened to the mantra you used before of "I will never drink again", and can you imagine that you WILL ACTUALLY NEVER DRINK AGAIN, no matter what happens and what effect a situation may have on you?

GT
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:33 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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12,529 days -1,082,543,143 heart beats. Hows that for counting days

I can only speak of mysef with certainty, but it's my belief that NO one here wants you to fail. Quite the contrary.

My mind has a hard time with absolute concepts such as 'never', and 'always'. To me any statements that use words like these are set-ups for failure. I try not to think in absolutes. I try to live in the one day at a time frame of mind and today I will not drink, or use, maybe tomorrow, but not today. I'm fairly certain that I can make it through today. I'm not so sure about never.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:38 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Ken, I am so sorry. I can understand how devestating this is. You made your plan when you were feeling good and strong, maybe a little angry. Those feelings pass and negative ones set in at times we need to prepare for those. We must know they will come. The plan can be unshakable, but it takes a lot of work to really isolate the AV. I am no expert, but here is what I would like to point out...not to kick you while your down, but to try and help. I put in bold what seems to be AV that needs to be isolated. This is not you, this is the beast talking.

I can understand the feeling that others may be happy for your fall. I have seen some of that crap on this site and I let it almost run me off at one point. I am so glad I did not though because this site has been so helpful to me and 99.99% of the people on here have nothing but good intentions.

Here goes, a newbie try at the AV. Others please help if I am off base.
Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
I got intoxicated by the environment before I got intoxicated with anything else.
If that makes sense.
I believe this is AV. Think about this and see if you can see this as your beast talking,setting you up to drink again.

Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
I know what I have to do..... More importantly what I want to do.....
" It" is using your insecurities and your insightful nature against you. I think you are over thinking this. You still say "want to do", this gives the beast hope. Give it no hope, it does not deserve it.

But ... Damn... Damn damn....
AV fighting with you. Disengage. It does not need to be between you and it. Step back and let it struggle with itself.

Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
I hate knowing and still being lead around by it.
You know, but you are letting it lead you around. Remember the AV cannot walk into a bar or other situation that will weaken you. The beast cannot order or pick up that drink. The beast cannot swallow. The beast can only be so happy it got another drink.

Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
This is a complex thing.... Many sides... Many facets.
again, AV I believe. This is actually very simple. You will never drink again, and you're never changing my mind. Very simple statement. There only two sides, drink or not. The work is to isolate the beast from you.

Ken, I have huge respect for you. It takes guts to do this and do it in a public way. I wish you nothing but the best and I know you will find your strength.
PM me if you would like, I am off the next 2 days.

Take care of yourself today buddy. You did well getting right back on board. Do not let the beast use yesterday against you.:ghug3
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:51 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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You could analize, over-analize, hyper-analize this until you disappear up your own butt!

The fact is, you did what you did. Time to move on.

There are alot of people that wouldn't be here on SR but straight back to the bar the next day.

Its not the end of the world, we are glad you're here xx
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:57 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Hey rock..... Thank you so very much. I see what you are saying.

I will be reading more today and have already recommitted myself to my Big Plan.

I may have had an issue recognizing the AV yesterday but that in no way negates my plan.

Not now.... Not ever.

The advice I get in this section is certainly what I needed today.

Polite.... Considerate.... And direct words that I can learn and gain help from.

Thank you to everyone.

It's funny... As I am learning I certainly have a change in my heart about what I have been doing to myself.

I don't feel the hopelessness about stopping to drink I felt pervious. it's hard to describe but just something I feel more secure about. That I actually believe myself.

Yesterday was what it was.... And today is again now.

K
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:05 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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One more thing I have observed about AVRT and those who I met that use it.

It's not for wallowers.... It's for doers!
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:12 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FredG View Post
My mind has a hard time with absolute concepts such as 'never', and 'always'. To me any statements that use words like these are set-ups for failure. I try not to think in absolutes. I try to live in the one day at a time frame of mind and today I will not drink, or use, maybe tomorrow, but not today. I'm fairly certain that I can make it through today. I'm not so sure about never.
Abstinence can only be experienced in the 'now moment', of course. Time is a relative measurement constructed in our respective mentalities. Time measurement is useful for society to be society, because standards are useful for society.

If your mind has a hard time with absolutes such as 'never' and 'always', then I suggest it equally has a hard time with concepts like 'now' and 'present', which are also 'time measurements', okay?

This is the AVRT thread.

Stating your understanding of time, linked to your ability to stay sober, as below...

"I try to live in the one day at a time frame of mind and today I will not drink, or use, maybe tomorrow, but not today. I'm fairly certain that I can make it through today. I'm not so sure about never."

totally invites me to comment on your misunderstanding of what AVRT is by nature, and by practice.

Your AV is obvious, and clearly your Beast is pleased. You may want to revisit why you're posting such claims, as I've quoted, on this thread in the manner you have done, yeah?

Do you want to understand AVRT?
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:19 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FredG View Post
12,529 days -1,082,543,143 heart beats. Hows that for counting days

I can only speak of mysef with certainty, but it's my belief that NO one here wants you to fail. Quite the contrary.

My mind has a hard time with absolute concepts such as 'never', and 'always'. To me any statements that use words like these are set-ups for failure. I try not to think in absolutes. I try to live in the one day at a time frame of mind and today I will not drink, or use, maybe tomorrow, but not today. I'm fairly certain that I can make it through today. I'm not so sure about never.
For a long time I wondered how people who become trusted officials in the CIA or the NSA who make a Big-Plan-type-oath to never compromise U.S. security can resist the temptation to sell secrets for lots of money and/or safety in a foreign country.

Well, when I made my Big Plan to never drink/toke again, I finally understood exactly what they were deciding in their oaths, too. I would think the vast majority of those agents are successful at keeping their "never" oaths and that the government is not sacrificing them as "set-ups for failure".
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:53 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
This is the AVRT thread.
My apologies, Fred. Actually, as was brought to my attention in a supportive manner, this thread is in fact, not part of the AVRT thread. My bad.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:22 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Ken:

Don't give up. Just keep chuggin' along. We all derail sometimes but you have to be good to yourself by not gving up the fight.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:02 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Ken, I wholeheartedly support you in continuing to work your big plan. I appreciate the fact that the folks on this thread "tell it like they see it". If people were telling you (or me) that it's no big deal to slip, then I believe we gradually attach less importance to slips.

Yes, I realize it's painful to feel we've let others down (but in reality, it is ourselves we've let down). But this way we can also learn that slips are not good but we are not shunned because of them. If we let it, I believe this can make us stronger.

Good for you for coming right back here!
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:15 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Weasel1966 View Post
Thanks!

I got edited because I posted what some one sent me in a PM.

I was told AVRT is not worth anything.

That's ok... We all have opinions.

You are correct. Big plans do not fail.
PM is quite the feature on this site. It's where the creepers come out of the wood work. I feel for you. So sorry that someone sent that nasty message. I personally do not read any PMs that I get. They all get sent to the garbage can.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:55 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Ken,

You need to realize that regardless of whether or not they refer to them as such, all of your recovery friends also have a Beast (addictive desire) and a corresponding Addictive Voice which colors their thinking. Thanks to their own AV, some of them don't believe in themselves, and don't know if they will drink/use tomorrow. Consequently, they cannot and will not ever believe in you, either.

You live in a society which largely does not believe in your ability to self-correct and self-recover. If you want to use AVRT as your method of recovery, you will need to learn to recognize the Addictive Voice not only in your own thinking, but also in the thinking of others who may project their own insecurities onto you. If you want to announce your Big Plan, be prepared to face the doubters at the gate.

I have made a couple Big Plans myself.
  1. I will never drink or use again, and I will never change my mind.

  2. I will never ingest nicotine again, and I will never change my mind.

I'm considering making a third:
I will never pay attention to what those who don't know if they will drink/use tomorrow have to say about addiction recovery, and I will never change my mind.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:03 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Dalek,

Hell yes i am going to announce my Big Plan. I accept those that want to criticize.

this is not something I or anyone can do passively. Life is not passive... or at least for me its not. That may actually be how i got to this point but that not going to be the way to move along to other things.

I do see a distinct difference in the "sound" of the posts in various parts of this site.

Glad everyone has their own way and place to express themselves. I will be doing the same in the only way I know how.

Ken
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:34 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Morning Weasel, How's it going for you today?

Dalek....nice 3rd plan
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:27 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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LDT... Thanks for asking. I slept well and feel great. Very hopeful.... Planning a trip this weekend.

I have recommitted to my big plan and feel good about it.

I appreciate you asking. Yesterday was rough. I was rough on myself.
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