bemyself

All I can say, Doubtful Deb, is you sound a. bloody angry and b. as dictatorial as the zealots in various recovery 'programmes', including XX.

I certainly take your point about the shite that goes on with interminable debates about different methods. But, some of us keep trying a host of the alphabet soup approach....and still, get sober for a while, then relapse, relapse, relapse.

I fear for this part of SR if it becomes sort of an 'elite' of those who've graduated with honours / got the the PhD in being recovered for good. All power to you who have. Some of us are still battling. Have a spot of compassion, eh?

raku

To bemyself,
Thank you for your post, although a bit negative, it helps me to sort out the truths of sobriety and "recovery" !

GerandTwine

DD (for when you may check back in July, 2014) and Others now,
I guess I would call this thread a bit of RR "World Services" activity. As in bemyself's above post, which I think is "all Beast", we can see how your annual visit here is so very effective at helping people express strong Addictive Voice activity so that they (and others reading) may get better at the Technique of Recognizing IT. I am repeatedly amazed at how good "never" is at provoking people's AV into clear view when it would otherwise remain hidden.
GT

raku

Articulated, or not, "IT" depends on a self-induced, self propelled medium, yet with an exchange of ideas, clairvoyant, as those experiences may come.

HuskyPup

I think the reduction of looking at things like bemyself's post points to the shortcomings of AVRT, and its inherent preachiness/coldness: everything that doesn't fit, that asks any kind of question, that examines any natural human emotion in any depth is labeled 'the beast', and dismissed as not being of value. I don't think this helps everyone, it just makes it seem like some feel they are better than others.

raku

I agree, huskypup !...and I'm contemplating "some may feel better that they are better than others". That is a mis-knowmer, coming from a place of competitiveness and ritual
thinking. That's my thought on that.
raku

bemyself

Sheesh! I don't mind being seen by some as a cat amongst the pigeons (rotten metaphor).

I simply repeat, with all due respect - though differing opinions - to DD, and more latterly, GT, that:

• I agree with the one part of DD's (apparently annual visit) which expresses great frustration, rightly, at the interminable and often vicious debates about numerous recovery methods.
• The 'alphabet soup' moniker which DD used to, in effect, deride those who can't quite fit ourselves wholly into one method or t'other, is frankly one of those things which I allow to float over my head now. On SR and in real life. Do I have (still) a desire to stop drinking for good? Too right I do. Have I been able to 'achieve' that? No, not yet. However, the alphabet soup approach is one I use. Period. I don't need to justify which parts of which X or Y methods do or don't help me.
• My recovery: relapses and all, sobriety periods and all, living-ordinary-life and all....well, it's actually mine. As it is for all SR members, lurkers, people using whatever methods they're using in the real world.
• I still feel - at times - that this type of OP may help some. But it also, still, confirms my gut feeling and opinion that it can alienate others who are earnestly seeking a part of the alcohol / addiction recovery world which is flexible, apart-from the head-hurting arguments between AA / non-AA etc etc.
• GT, if you still care to categorise my post/s as 'All Beast' and then use them as some sort of example to the RR students' seminar - cool. I've gone up against the best of many in postgrad seminars, academic conferences, and of course, hard-line types in AA meetings. Politicians, too, in my last job. (meh!) Politicians who were desperate about losing their seat at the next election and who were pork-barrelling. Hard line high-level bureaucrats. Very nasty and / or sociopathic ex-husbands. Hard line neighbours with axes to grind. Adult children with what I suspect have borderline personality disorders. Nutters who approach one on the street (not suggesting for one moment you're one of those, though!). My circuitous point is: I'm still drinking, again, yet still desire to get sober, again, stay sober, again. Use me as some sort of 'example' if you choose to. I've long ago ceased caring about that kind of thing. I stay on SR - including Sec Connections - for some experience, strength, hope.......and especially, some understanding, some compassion.

How's about a spot of compassion? Would it hurt too much?

Threshold

It doesn't seem to matter which program/method/unprogram people use, there are always some personalities that do the "my sobriety is more sober than yours"...and sometimes it's fun to watch their "dance of superiority".

Of course on the flip side is the "my addiction worse than yours"...both types of posts and posters attract lots of attention...and when I need some distraction or entertainment I tune into those trusty personalities and threads for sh*ts and giggles.

I really do think that people experience their addictions in different ways. I had someone once determined to convince me that I DO have an AV and that my cravings spoke to me. Not sure why they were so invested in the way I experienced my addiction, other than to prove their method was superior to others. They were PMing me attempting to educate me on the flaws in how I experienced my addiction.

Those discussions are interesting, but I'm not sure they are useful to my recovery, still and all, there is a place for them. It's part of what makes SR interesting to me.

ThrutheCracks

Thanks. I second that. I just want to stay clean today and whatever advice helps me achieve that goal ROCKS, whether it comes from a 12 Stepper, RR person, AVRT (never heard of that one before, gonna go check it out!) or a freudian therapist...or an alien from another galaxy, it's all good ! I was given great advice once, and I to try to follow it - "take what you like and leave the rest for now." Sometimes "the rest" that I've left comes back later and actually becomes something really useful.

dwtbd

As the author says in his book, AVRT is the method humans use to end addictions all the time. AVRT is a trademarked compilation of those principles as identified by the author.

The idea of choosing abstinence is really only seen as radical or unattainable today because of the undue and perhaps dangerous influence of 'step' programs that reinforce the idea of addiction as a disease, the culturally prevalent view in the US today.

Personally, the disease model and the idea that to end my addiction was based on given up my individuality and surrendering myself to something or someone was what kept me from thinking I could recover.

As soon as I realized that I wasn't 'special' , I realized I could end my addiction. Could I become an
addict again? Sure, but why the hell would I?

Cleopatra1

this thread is very interesting,,i understand all that is written ,,but become more drawn towards bemyselfs writing,,,,i mean ,,geeze louise dudes,,chill yeh??
i feel some here do have an ego ,of "im more sover than u ,,and i know u more than u do " lol,,attitude,,but hey ,,the worlds full of em anyway ,,,sure gonna get em on ere too no???
im still so early in to my sobriety,,,oh yes i know i my be making so many mistakes,,and this post may well be "full of beast talk",,but,,wth??
im trying to do my best ,,and thats all i can do,,,
im not drinking today,,,and i will never change my mind,,
is that all that matters??
sorry if im talkin crap,,im not as educated as u lot!!!
hugs n squishyness,,cleo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx