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Didn't know there was a name for it (AVRT)

Old 05-29-2012, 01:15 PM
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Didn't know there was a name for it (AVRT)

First stopped drinking almost 20 years ago, when I was 19. Before that I had been to rehab 3 times.

Thankfully the 3 time I exited rehab and into the hands of a very competent therapist. He gave me the tools similar to AVRT. He taught me that I wasn't "sick" like rehab had drilled into me. He taught me to make the personal statement and stand for my life that I was never going to drink again. I did stay with him for 3 years, but worked on other issues I had going on - but there wasn't any focus on my drinking.

I stayed drink free and happy for over 15 years. Until the death of my 4th child at the age of 10 months. I picked up the cans of beer again for about 6 months. Until I pledged again I will never drink again.

This again worked for 2 years. I stayed drink free for 2 years while my boyfriend popped pain pill after pain pill. I ended up caving and my Beast took over and said "Fine don't drink again, but pop a few pills."

So I made the change in my statement, that I will never drink or take any drugs. I told myself this 5 months ago, and proud of myself.

It was just yesterday that I came across AVRT and Rational Recovery. I have been reading all I can on AVRT and have the books ordered. I am a believer as I know it worked for me.

Now I am finding myself on the other side of AVRT - The side of the family of loved ones using drugs.

In the past and trying to support my boyfriend - I pushed towards NA for him. I came to believe and accept that relapse was going to be part of my life with him. I look back seeing how hurtful I was to him.

This morning - I woke to realize a different way of handling what I am facing with my boyfriend. I understand that it is probably too late as he is convinced the relationship is over. But I am glad to of come across the information.

Sorry if any of my words or terms are incorrect. I just started reading yesterday.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:22 PM
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Welcome to SR xenoughx. I'm glad you have dropped by. I am not that familiar with RR and AVRT, but several others here are.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:27 PM
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hi xenoughx. I too applied the AVRT strategy without knowing it. It was pointed out to me by another member that Jack Trimpey's work in the area of AVRT is based on what the self recovered population has done for ever and ever. I am currently reading RR too even though I am permanently abstinent. I think it is very helpful to really hone the technique. I did not have a deep enough understanding the first time I quit. Although I was abstinent for 10 years, I would not have had a reversal of intent had I known what I know now. LOL good old hindsight There are several AVRT threads here at SR. Join in on the discussion!

Oh, and like you, I am also dealing with a loved one (my sister) who is addicted. The approach is pretty different from standard/current recovery movement philosophy, don't you think?
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:06 PM
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thank you both for the welcome.

soberlicious, up until today I have been stuck in the standard/recovery movement in regards to my boyfriend.

I just started reading today about this approach. It is odd that when it comes to myself i used and was somewhat successful with the AVRT approach, but when it comes to my loved ones I was focusing on group recovery methods and the promise of relapse. I don't know why I didn't try to instill the same approach for loved ones.

I would love to hear any experiences you might have for me to reference.

thanks.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:05 AM
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AVRT is the lore of self recovery. As soberlicious said, people just figure out how AVRT. Jack Trimpey does not claim to invent it. Rather, after talking to thousands of abstinent individuals, he consolidated everything into a simple set of instructions so that recovery could be condensed into a few hours, days, weeks or months.

I'm sorry to hear of your situation. If you get the book Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction, there is a chapter called How to Help an Addicted Family Member on page 243. I can't give you any more advice than that since I'm fortunate enough not to have had the need to read that section.

I hope it helps you anyway.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by xenoughx View Post
thank you both for the welcome.

soberlicious, up until today I have been stuck in the standard/recovery movement in regards to my boyfriend.

I just started reading today about this approach. It is odd that when it comes to myself i used and was somewhat successful with the AVRT approach, but when it comes to my loved ones I was focusing on group recovery methods and the promise of relapse. I don't know why I didn't try to instill the same approach for loved ones.

I would love to hear any experiences you might have for me to reference.

thanks.
enough,

My experience is that our society is permeated with persuasive information towards methods of recovery that can financially support the cost of putting out all that persuasive information - yes - it's a vicious cycle.

Marketing analysts know that a business offering a product that never wears out will not last very long. There's a hilarious 1951 British movie "The Man in the White Suit" starring Alec Guinness, that tells this story.

Well, the AVRT method of recovery never wears out; AND it does not involve any sort of professionalism to impart; AND it can be learned quickly.

So, considering the large, competitive service sector of the U.S. economy, it makes sense that recovery methods founded upon planned obsolescence and licensed professionals will be the methods that will get the promotional funding - AND shortsighted/crony-style political support.

Nevertheless, your quitting AVRT-style on your own, is just more evidence of the hidden deep current of the vast number of people that recover on their own and don't get counted.

GT
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine
Nevertheless, your quitting AVRT-style on your own, is just more evidence of the hidden deep current of the vast number of people that recover on their own and don't get counted.
so true, GT, so true.

enough, I read the chapter that kanamit referred to in RR:The New Cure and I'm going to read it again. I think my sister would have great success with AVRT. She knows my philosophy and we talk alot. She is agreeable to reading the book...I bought it for her, and took it to her house..."she just hasn't had time" lol PURE AV. I am not giving up. She's currently not drinking, but did last week after a short period of abstinence. I do not coddle her...you know that geico commercial where the therapist throws the box of kleenex at the client and calls him a crybaby jackwagon? That's kinda me LOL but it's all good because she's my sis She's pretty confused right now because she's involved in outpatient stuff. She doesn't know what to do with all the "advice" thrown at her. I told her, in true soberlicious form, that only she can sort out the truth from the white noise.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by xenoughx View Post
It is odd that when it comes to myself i used and was somewhat successful with the AVRT approach, but when it comes to my loved ones I was focusing on group recovery methods and the promise of relapse. I don't know why I didn't try to instill the same approach for loved ones.
Because in addition to what GerandTwine mentioned about there not being much money in telling people how to quit and to get on with life (no repeat business), the recovery marketing Blitzkrieg makes it appear that self-recovery is unusual and very rare. You can't watch a TV show these days without hearing about an intervention, a rehab stay, or a recovery group meeting, and this doesn't include recovery shows like A&E's Intervention or Discovery's Addicted.

People who quit on their own often end up assuming that they are somehow uniquely special, but self-recovery is actually very common, and the self-recovered population outnumbers the combined rehab and recovery group population by a very large margin. Someone will probably try and demand evidence of this strange-sounding claim, so I'll provide a pertinent link from the federal government backing it up.

Originally Posted by National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
About 75 percent of persons who recover from alcohol dependence do so without seeking any kind of help, including specialty alcohol (rehab) programs and AA. Only 13 percent of people with alcohol dependence ever receive specialty alcohol treatment.

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism: Alcoholism Isn't What it Used To Be
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalek View Post
People who quit on their own often end up assuming that they are somehow uniquely special
I actually thought I was very special, thinking I had some special super power to quit.

soberlicious - This morning, he is starting all over from his weekly "relapse" yesterday. it is very hard to listen to the NA recoveryism that he has been saying all day.

He has agreed to read the crash course tonight.

I have some hope.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:05 PM
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Include me in the legions of self-taught ex you know whats. Like soberlicious, I had quit using my own thought exercises of separation from my urge, realization that no thinking man would continue to drink in my situation, and that I was able to quit, and by gum, I would. So I did.

I did read the section in Trimpey's book about friends and family, and it is pretty hard line in its approach. Come to think of it, this is more or less what I was told those 10 months ago.

Give it a good read, and Good Luck.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:29 PM
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Enough,

Welcome to SR and to AVRT!

I too think I was about 80% there when I found AVRT on these forums. With AVRT I quickly shored up the various holes in my approach and was able to embrace a rock solid big plan...after that things just a got easier.

Keep reading, ask lots of questions. There's some really great people that know AVRT inside and out and you've met a few of the best ones here already.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:29 AM
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Thank you TippingPoint & FreshStart,

The reading I have done thus far has been very helpful in getting some open holes that I had plugged up. Although I felt confident in my actions - there were still doubts. Those doubts came from other people talking directly to my Beast. I heard too many times that since I was able to go it without AA I must not of had a problem to begin with. That got my Beast in celebrating mode - telling me since we didn't have a problem, we could go out and drink.

I am still struggling with my boyfriend's drug problems. Possible the struggle is my Beast trying to keep boyfriend around cause it will give me the opportunity to use again. It worked once.

But I am continuing and getting to the point of making my Big Plan with him.

Carrie
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by xenoughx View Post
But I am continuing and getting to the point of making my Big Plan with him.
There is a section titled "Beasts in Love" on pages 164-169 of the Rational Recovery book that is worth reading. Sobriety pacts are not a good idea. If one person doesn't keep to the agreement, they may try and drag the other person down with them, or the other person may feel "cheated" and decide that the whole deal is off. Your Beast would absolutely love to delay making a Big Plan until your boyfriend gets on board, or to have an escape clause built in to your Big Plan by making it dependent on his Big Plan. Make your Big Plan entirely by yourself.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:29 PM
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Carrie, I have a good feeling about your success. You are beginning to fine tune your ears to recognize any thought that you might ever drink again as coming from your dinosaur brain using its addictive voice.

I just look at that beast these days, and shake my head. Unbelievable, literally. I refuse to believe anything that comes out of that animal mouth.

So, welcome to the secular side of recovery. I hope and pray that what has worked for you will help with your BF too.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalek View Post
There is a section titled "Beasts in Love" on pages 164-169 of the Rational Recovery book that is worth reading. Sobriety pacts are not a good idea. If one person doesn't keep to the agreement, they may try and drag the other person down with them, or the other person may feel "cheated" and decide that the whole deal is off. Your Beast would absolutely love to delay making a Big Plan until your boyfriend gets on board, or to have an escape clause built in to your Big Plan by making it dependent on his Big Plan. Make your Big Plan entirely by yourself.
sorry, I didn't make myself clear. My thoughts get scrambled.

I made my personal big plan before the beginning of 2012. No drugs or alcohol ever for myself. (Yes this is the 3 time I have made this plan in about 20 years, but I know this is forever) No going back.

I guess I used the wrong word in reference to him.

But I am working on giving him the the zero-tolerance ultimatum - I have not felt the power to do it in the past.

My journey with AVRT just started in the past week or 2 so the terms are not natural to me.

I guess my line of thinking was I made a Big Plan regarding my drinking and drugging and I was going to make a Big Plan as well about living with someone who is actively using.

Thank you for help Dalek

Carrie
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
So, welcome to the secular side of recovery. I hope and pray that what has worked for you will help with your BF too.
He is very tuned into NA. I attempt to pass on information for him to read, but his Beast wants him to be sick with no personal responsibility. In a month boyfriend allowed the beast it's pleasure and he didn't pay any bills and lost his job.

There is no personal responsibility for my boyfriend. He feels he is powerless.

It is such a struggle.

Carrie
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