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Big Plan

Old 05-03-2012, 07:37 PM
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Big Plan

Attempting to make a big plan. My Beast is going crazy.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:47 PM
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That's good! It means you are somewhat serious, and accordingly, your Beast is very afraid. Like a cornered rat, it will try one last ditch attempt to keep you from doing what it knows you are perfectly capable of doing. Why else would it be afraid?

Pay attention to the recoil and listen for the echo, but recognize it as your Beast's fear of dying, and not your own fear. There is no "trying" here, however. Eventually, you have to go in for the kill.
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:34 PM
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What exactly do most people include in a "Big Plan?" I read the crash course on AVRT, but i'm still confused about what should be part of a Big Plan except for being totally clean and detaching the AV from yourself. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaycm610 View Post
What exactly do most people include in a "Big Plan?"
"I will never drink or use again" is the usual, although it has become customary to also add "and I will never change my mind." My hyper-logical mind is prone to finding all sorts of loopholes, though, so I intentionally made mine a little more airtight:

Originally Posted by TU's Big Plan

I will never drink or use again, and I will never change my mind for better or for worse.
Essentially, anything that is unconditional, and which forces the addictive mentality to break down, would suffice. As long as the "I" no longer drinks/drugs, addictive desire can become 'not I, but IT', and AVRT can commence. The key word is 'never'. Other variations:
  1. "I will never now drink."

  2. "I will never drink in the present moment."

If you haven't read the book Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey, I would encourage you to do so. It is far more comprehensive than the free crash course, and fairly inexpensive, especially if you buy it used. The AVRT discussion threads in this forum are also worth reading.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:18 AM
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I actually just order that book yesterday, and in fact did get a used copy. And is a big plan really that simple?
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:38 PM
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I made a BP but now I think maybe I rushed into it. I mean, should I have thought about it for longer before committing to it, and maybe now it's not 'strong' enough or something...? It's hard to find the appropriate language for this sort of thing!
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Newatthis34 View Post
I made a BP but now I think maybe I rushed into it. I mean, should I have thought about it for longer before committing to it, and maybe now it's not 'strong' enough or something...? It's hard to find the appropriate language for this sort of thing!
N34, Your AV has monopolized your post in your telling us what IT thinks about your Big Plan. Any other interpretation would not be using AVRT.

Reclaim the pronoun "I" for yourself.

What do YOU think and how do YOU feel about your Big Plan?
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaycm610 View Post
I actually just order that book yesterday, and in fact did get a used copy. And is a big plan really that simple?
J610, People have different first impressions of the Big Plan. I thought sort of like you do. Go with that awareness of your own competency. Yes, it is that basic.
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:52 PM
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The Big Plan is simple. For some folks, the hardest part is separating the Beast, the Addictive Voice and Self. When I read RR for the first time, it was like a bright light went on in my head. I myself didNOT want to drink but the addiction, the Beast wanted feeding!

Back when the Beast was running my life, there were times I would "zombie" walk to the liquor store in the late evening, feeling like it was against my own will. I was in AA for 8 years, sober but it always seemed so hard for me. I had a lovely sponsor, worked the Steps to the best of my ability but I just never felt comfortable.

I learned a lot of good stuff in AA about being a better person. I came to a good understanding of alcoholism. But AVRT and RR works best for me.

Love from Lenina
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:52 AM
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I'm in the same boat although my Beast is laying low today. Having a total block against committing to a BP.

What I am finding interesting to analyze is WHY I am having so much trouble. The Beast knows I am going to Europe for 2 weeks this summer and "how can you possibly go to Europe and not drink?" My Beast is winning the battle over this because I (me, Pam, not Beast) is thinking the same thing.

So, I am not having problems staying sober now, but I am seriously not confident of going to France without Beast.

Work in progress.

Hope your beastie-boy settles down - it is not pleasant when he throws a fit. I am looking forward to (eventually) kicking him out of my head forever.

Pam
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
I'm in the same boat although my Beast is laying low today. Having a total block against committing to a BP.

What I am finding interesting to analyze is WHY I am having so much trouble. The Beast knows I am going to Europe for 2 weeks this summer and "how can you possibly go to Europe and not drink?" My Beast is winning the battle over this because I (me, Pam, not Beast) is thinking the same thing.

So, I am not having problems staying sober now, but I am seriously not confident of going to France without Beast.

Work in progress.

Hope your beastie-boy settles down - it is not pleasant when he throws a fit. I am looking forward to (eventually) kicking him out of my head forever.

Pam
Pam, I'm assuming you believe it is wrong for you to ever drink again. This is a great post to filter using AVRT. What is AV and what is AV based addiction treatment jargon? Anyone?
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
This is a great post to filter using AVRT. What is AV and what is AV based addiction treatment jargon? Anyone?
I'll assume you don't want me to answer, so I'll sit this one out... for now. It would certainly be best if Pam could recognize her own AV, though. Pam? Any thoughts?
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:18 AM
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OK. I bet I don't do so well. My thoughts are that obviously I am not recognizing my AV.

Drinking is harmful, Pam does not want to drink. Beast does. - check.

Going to France this summer, where it is always party time. I think Pam really wants to drink in France. Or at least I want the possibility of having a glass of wine if I want. Beast does too. This is where I think Pam and Beast agree. Beast is saying " come on, it's France....you can drink moderately and then be abstinent when you go back home". I know that is Beast. I succome to that though even though I know it is wrong.

Beast is scared that he won't get booze on vacation.

Now, having said that....I feel SO MUCH better in my regularly busy life sober, don't you think I would enjoy France so much better sober? I haven't been this content, relaxed and downright joyful in years. It is possible that going to France sober would exceed any other visit that I spent drunk. I think that is a strong possibility.

Please help me out here.....Where am I missing my AV? I want to be able to identify it easily. I gather that once I commit to the Big Plan, AV recognition will become effortless.

Thanks,
Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:53 AM
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Hope it's ok for me to join in with this 'spot the beast' test! I'm trying to learn the AVRT ropes too so any advice will be gratefully received (I'm going to France also this summer and have been having the same internal dialogue!)

Is the main problem with what Pam said the fact that she wants to 'kick beast out of her head' - we are never going to achieve that, so we must accept the AV, recognise it, and tell it no. So theoretically going to France and not drinking is only going to strengthen the commitment to the BP (assuming you've made one). But if Pam hasn't made a BP by the time she goes, she could drink without failing her commitment...? I however, did make a BP so I'd be in a worse position if I drank on holiday...? But isn't that my AV just now? I'm confused
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
I'm in the same boat although my Beast is laying low today. Having a total block against committing to a BP.

What I am finding interesting to analyze is WHY I am having so much trouble. The Beast knows I am going to Europe for 2 weeks this summer and "how can you possibly go to Europe and not drink?" My Beast is winning the battle over this because I (me, Pam, not Beast) is thinking the same thing.

So, I am not having problems staying sober now, but I am seriously not confident of going to France without Beast.

Work in progress.

Hope your beastie-boy settles down - it is not pleasant when he throws a fit. I am looking forward to (eventually) kicking him out of my head forever.

Pam
If you are having a total block against committing to a BP, your Beast doing the opposite of "laying low". It is in full blown action.

Your Beast is managing to get you to use "I" for It when you say "because I (me, Pam, not Beast)". In AVRT that "I" cannot be you, unless you do not believe that drinking ever again is wrong for you, in which case, be careful, good luck, and may you succeed.

You're not having problems staying sober now because one day at a time is easy and meaningless in AVRT. In AVRT the meaning of sobriety is working on a Way of Life Program following which not drinking occurs. Abstinence is the correct word in AVRT.

N34 is correct about the Beast. You can't go anywhere without it. It knows you can't harm it one bit without "never", so It's trying to get you to think that It decides future drinking for you.

By pointing out it's easy right now, you're actually saying it's not as easy to be temporarily abstinent as it is to be permanently abstinent, because then you wouldn't be wasting time and effort at all this ambivalence about the future. It would be as easy any time in the future as it is now. I think you can sense that.

Your Beast wants you to relish in the present ease of "sobriety", and think this present ease is the way it must be because it wants you to believe you are unable to decide on future drinking, thus your "Work in progress."

It loves it when you "look forward" to "(eventually)" deciding "forever". In AVRT, there is no good reason to wait beyond understanding the true meaning of the Big Plan.

And "beastie-boy" minimizes the seriousness of what this is all about. The Beast will kill your dreams at least and your life at worst.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:34 AM
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Pam, wouldn't it be nice to go on vacation and remember it, all of it?
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:40 AM
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Holy cow, I must be full of sh*t. I mean that. I don't even come close to getting the correct way of thinking about this. I need to re-read RR or something. I'm scared now.

Thank you so much for your analysis of my bullsh*t. I need to mull it over a bit, then come back and ask for more help.

Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:41 AM
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And yes it would be very nice to remember all of my vacation - plus be awake more to enjoy it.

Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:58 AM
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Thanks Pam for your posts, I too am coming to similar conclusions about the level of self-deception and delusions I'm labouring under... And thanks GT for illuminating things.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:03 PM
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SO do I just give up on AVRT because I'm so full of it?

GT and TU....tell me what to do.

Pam
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