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Old 05-08-2012, 11:45 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
SO do I just give up on AVRT because I'm so full of it?
You'd be giving up on yourself more than anything else. The addictive voice is not just a little voice that says "drink! drink!", but an entire persona built around the addictive mandate, and it colors our thoughts. The problem is that in addiction, or I dare say, even in recovery, the AV appears to be you.

The Big Plan ends the illusion that addictive desire is "you", so any thoughts that support or suggest any possibility of drinking then become "not you", but the Beast. Without a Big Plan, your AV still has control of the pronoun "I", and you are going to have a difficult time with recognition, and certainly with separation.

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
...tell me what to do.
It sounds like you are well past detox, and that you enjoy life without the drink. So, I recommend making up your mind. End the inner debate, Pam, and leave your addiction in the past. Resolve this problem once and for all. Wouldn't that be nice? That is what you want, isn't it?
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:10 PM
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What about the Abstinence Commitment Effect

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
SO do I just give up on AVRT because I'm so full of it?

GT and TU....tell me what to do.

Pam
You are far from just being "full of it". That's all AV and you can learn to recognize it. You are a few minutes from completely recovered, and from your previous posts, I think you understand that.

I asked you once before, but didn't hear back.
What positive thoughts and feelings come to you when you think of making your Big Plan?

GT
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Newatthis34 View Post
So theoretically going to France and not drinking is only going to strengthen the commitment to the BP...
The part above in bold is the AV, because if you need to strengthen the commitment, then you are saying there is a possibility of drinking. This isn't about a 'daily commitment' to not drink, and the Big Plan is not an experiment. It is a decision that ends the debate. With a BP in place, "you" no longer drink. End of discussion. Topic closed. Your Beast may want to drink, but that is just too damn bad -- for IT.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:06 PM
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You've already told yourself what to do, Pam. And you've already achieved it. You quit. Done. All the rest is just noise created by the addiction. Including all this self doubt—saying your full of it, using that as an excuse to quit—it's all hogwash!

Are you less of an addict when you're in another country? Do you love yourself or your family less because the people speak a different language? It's silly when you think about it—geography is irrelevant. So is time. Now and then, present and future—it's all moot, because you've decided to never drink again, and to never change your mind. Foolish Beast—what part of "never" does he not understand?

Also ridiculous: the notion that everyone drinks in France. B, period, S, period. Sure, lots of people drink there. Lots of people drink here. You're not lots of people. You're Pam. And you no longer drink. Good thing, too. Because every alcoholic who drinks themselves into an early grave have one thing in common—they all bought into an excuse to drink. A place, a time, an event, a mood... there are as many excuses as there are addicts (and beasts). But none of those matters when you've decided to never drink again.

I can't tell you how much better I felt once I closed the door for good. The whole "should I or shouldn't I?" debate is sooooo exhausting. It's funny, because the idea of "never" used to scare me. But once I embraced it, I discovered it wasn't a burden at all. If anything, it feels more like a protective bubble. I imagine France would look very nice indeed as seen through the bubble of "never."
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:30 PM
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Beast Territoriality

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
...
Going to France this summer, where it is always party time. [removed pure AV here] Beast is saying " come on, it's France....you can drink moderately and then be abstinent when you go back home". I know that is Beast. [removed more pure AV]

Beast is scared that he won't get booze on vacation.

Now, having said that....I feel SO MUCH better in my regularly busy life sober, don't you think I would enjoy France so much better sober? I haven't been this content, relaxed and downright joyful in years. It is possible that going to France sober would exceed any other visit that I spent drunk. I think that is a strong possibility.
...

Thanks,
Pam
My post #89 of the AVRT Part 4 thread goes over this idea of Beast Territoriality - the Map of ITS stuff in time and space.

Like searching for a scarce resource that is getting harder and harder to obtain, the Beast will use your memory idiosyncrasies to grasp for ITS Last Vestige of drinking at some "special" place, or some "special" time. Yes, France, that's it!

Once IT secures ITs stuff at a "special" place or time, even if in your mind it's in the distant future, or far away, IT is out of the cage right now, and your AV will chip away, chip away, chip away - AAARRGHHH!

Your last paragraph reveals some of the logic for making a Big Plan, but once made, any reasoning around why not to drink is cast aside using AVRT. At some point your AV will point out the contradiction of how can you be "content, relaxed and joyful" in a "regularly busy life"? and if those good feelings end, you're "sobriety" won't be worth it. Abstinence with the Big Plan is the perfect defense.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:46 PM
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The positive thoughts and feelings would include:

The relief of not worrying about choosing to drink. Just be done with it, no mas.
To feel like my recovery was complete - that it isn't a life long proocess of constant "being in recovery". No more "temptations" or "triggers"
To be able to provide support to other alcoholics, and have it be real support - because I was successful in being abstinent.

I bet I could come up with more if I wasn't here at work and sneaking peaks at SR in between patients lol.

My predominant negative feeling is fear.

Thank you,
Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Vajra View Post
Attempting to make a big plan. My Beast is going crazy.
Vajra,
How are you doing with AVRT?
GT
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:01 PM
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That First High Dive into the Pool

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
The positive thoughts and feelings would include:

The relief of not worrying about choosing to drink. Just be done with it, no mas.
To feel like my recovery was complete - that it isn't a life long proocess of constant "being in recovery". No more "temptations" or "triggers"
To be able to provide support to other alcoholics, and have it be real support - because I was successful in being abstinent.

I bet I could come up with more if I wasn't here at work and sneaking peaks at SR in between patients lol.

My predominant negative feeling is fear.

Thank you,
Pam
With the positive feelings in mind, it's not hard to dissociate from the fear. Do it. IT is full of fear. IT is not really you if you use AVRT. Remember the first time you took a high dive into the pool; and the difference with the tenth time?

I often think of the almost infinite benefit over cost ratio of setting an example. In fifty years when you are bouncing a great grandchild on your knee, imagine the loved ones you will have influenced, absolutely effortlessly, by being an abstainer. Not to mention the benefits to your own life.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:05 PM
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I don't know if any of you are following "Game of Thrones" but in the books one of Arya Stark's favorite sayings is "Fear cuts deeper than swords."
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:06 PM
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OK, I get the high-dive analogy:-) That's simple enough for me.

And....I would love to bounce a great-grandchild on my knee when I'm 102.

Thanks,
Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:09 PM
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Just started Game of Thrones last week - bought the entire series. I'm a medieval history fanatic (and I'll put myself up against tour guide in England or France!!) so I love the whole flavor of the story.

"Fear cuts deeper than swords"... You can dodge a sword or run away. Fear can come and smother you and take you down.

Thanks,
Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gavinandnikki
My predominant negative feeling is fear.
Your beast's predominant negative feeling is fear. YOU, my dear, have nothing to fear. Fearless=freedom...ahhhhh
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:36 PM
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Great comments everybody!
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:42 PM
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Ready and Able - your post brings tears to my eyes. Every single word rings true to me.

Thank you,
Pam
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
OK, I get the high-dive analogy:-) That's simple enough for me.
[...]
Thanks,
Pam
Check out RR:TNC p. 138 "Defusing the Time Factor" and on through first half of p. 141.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:33 PM
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Hi, Vajra. I was curious if you had locked down on your plan?

It is such a huge step, I know. I actually started out one-day-at-a-timing-it, because the idea of never drinking again was just so.... incomprehensible. But like I said earlier, accepting it actually made things much, much easier. And when I saw that, I stopped accepting it and started embracing it. My whole life I thought I "never" was a negative word, and it turned out to be one of the keys that set me free.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:04 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Big Plan Privacy

Since a Big Plan commitment cannot be proven to another person, there is a possible result of using AVRT successfully that could unintentionally leave dangling threads in Sober Recovery's format of communication.

Someone making a Big Plan could, very logically, decide not to tell anyone else, and with good purpose. For example, if a spouse is addicted, the impact of a Big Plan announcement might have counterproductive effects on the relationship.

In the anonymous format here on SR, when someone learns AVRT and makes a Big Plan, there is no AVRT based reason to go any further, or even announce having made a Big Plan.

Someone who's made a Big Plan has to know they've made it because they can't lie to themselves, and no one else can ever truly know that they've made it because it's purely an inside the brain cascade of synaptic connections. So, why tell anyone, especially on an anonymous forum?

So, when we see someone here clearly getting their nose to the door of the Big Plan, it doesn't mean they haven't already opened it and gone through.

It is even possible for someone to say they have not made the Big Plan when they really have, although it's harder to imagine good purposes for doing so.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:18 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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I'm off today and am re-reading RR cover to cover.

Pam
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:14 AM
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:48 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble View Post
Hi, Vajra. I was curious if you had locked down on your plan?

It is such a huge step, I know. I actually started out one-day-at-a-timing-it, because the idea of never drinking again was just so.... incomprehensible. But like I said earlier, accepting it actually made things much, much easier. And when I saw that, I stopped accepting it and started embracing it. My whole life I thought I "never" was a negative word, and it turned out to be one of the keys that set me free.
i have, but it doesn't seem fully ingrained yet. Forever seems like a long time. I know that's the Beast talking.
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