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I need secular support, please.

Old 04-30-2012, 03:54 PM
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I need secular support, please.

Long story short.
Went into a 3 week inpatient detox and rehab from 12/27 to 1/19. Quit smoking at the same time. Followed up doing the AA thing, 3-4 meetings per week. Ended up dropping AA, still friends with my ex-sponsor. I feel very good about my sobriety - haven't been this happy and CALM in a long time.
Have had 2 lapses. A glass of wine on 3/17, 2 martinis on 4/9. The wine was icky, the martinis made me throw up. In both instances, the drinking reaffirmed my decision to not drink.

I have still not committed to an AVRT Big Plan.

Fast forward to today.

Had a follow-up appointment with my addiction doc. When he jeard I was not "doing" AA, he said, "oh, my I am so worried about you, you have already started drinking again".

I am SO proud that I have quit drinking and had only 2 lapses that did not balloon out of control into some horrible binge. His attitude was that it is just a matter of time until I become a full-blown sun up to sun down drinker because I am not going to AA and not working the steps.

An on-line support group, "doesn't really count".

Bottom line, if I don't start "working my program" and "soon, too", I will be "on your knees" praying to God because AA is the only program that "research shows works".

I am a physician. I have researched all of the possible recovery methods. I feel very strongly that this guy is incorrect regarding his "only AA" works methodology. Any data regarding the success rates of any form of recovery program is weak. I have chosen what I feel will work best for me. (Which he felt was another nail in my alcoholic coffin). This doc kept shaking his head like.....she'll be back in the rooms soon. Totally dismissive of me. I was crying in frustration.

So...(and if you've read this far, thanks), I need some non-AA supoort from y'all. I sure hope you can provide some.

My stint in rehab and early indoctrination into AA was helpful for me. I needed that early on. But, I swear, If I have to listen to some of the religious stuff that goes on in another AA meeting, I WILL pick up a drink:-)!

Thank you,
PJ
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Have had 2 lapses.... In both instances, the drinking reaffirmed my decision to not drink. I have still not committed to an AVRT Big Plan.
I'm assuming this means you intend to use AVRT? If so, have you read the Rational Recovery book and the AVRT discussion threads?
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:35 PM
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Yes I have read both, but am afraid to make a Big Plan.
Pam
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Yes I have read both, but am afraid to make a Big Plan.
Pam
Do you believe your use of alcohol is a buffer protecting you from the mis-use of prescription drugs?
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:07 AM
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Sounds like you need to find a different doctor.

I can't wait for the day when addiction is recognized as a serious medical disorder...when a science-based approach is used to treat. Until then, we all do what we can to stay sober. I hope you can find a method or an approach that works best for you. All I do is use SR and my mind.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:25 AM
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Hi again,
Good to see you.
Honestly, all I can say is, this is a journey. We are all different. What works for one, does not work for the other.
As long as you are not here saying that you have decided to forget about your problem and move on with no further evaluation, you are fine in my book.
You might change your mind about stuff along the way.
That is fine too.
Look at your life. Is it better now?
Ok, so now you just keep on the path of discovery.
I am 18 months sober and still figuring it all out.
I expect it to be an issue in 18 years.
Drink does not make my life better. Sobriety is hard. I wish I didn't have this. But, I have people who love me and want me around, so I must keep at it.
Hugs, Anne
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Yes I have read both, but am afraid to make a Big Plan.
Pam
You are afraid or your Beast is afraid?

The Big Plan contains the word “never”—the only word the Beast fears; it's like giving Kryptonite to Superman. Once you separate yourself from your Beast, making a Big Plan might seem a little scary but it's ultimately liberating.

Post any questions or concerns you have in the AVRT threads. The fact you've already read them and the New Cure book means you're already primed for this.

If you haven't already, check out this video that I linked to for a good overview of AVRT from the man himself.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...what-avrt.html
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:06 AM
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My beast is afraid, big time.

Thanks,
Pam
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
... I have chosen what I feel will work best for me...
PJ
Hi Pam,
Would you be willing to give a little more detail here on what you have chosen?
Thanks,
GT
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:16 AM
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Learning about AVRT, recognizing the AV, think about committing to a Big Plan, SR at least an hour a day, meditation, exercise, psychotherapy twice a week and most of all...................not drinking.

So far, except for 2 stupid one hour lapses (3/17 and 4/9) it's working for me.

I am calm, happier than I've been in years, and not craving a drink. No smokes for 125 days too!

Thnaks,
Pam
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Learning about AVRT, recognizing the AV, think about committing to a Big Plan, SR at least an hour a day, meditation, exercise, psychotherapy twice a week and most of all...................not drinking.

So far, except for 2 stupid one hour lapses (3/17 and 4/9) it's working for me.

I am calm, happier than I've been in years, and not craving a drink. No smokes for 125 days too!

Thnaks,
Pam
Hi Pam,
It sounds like you're getting very close to deciding on permanent abstinence.

In giving well directed feedback, it would be useful to know your reasoning for drinking the wine and martinis, and hear some of what you "think about committing to a Big Plan."

Thanks,
GT
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:32 PM
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I think I'm gettin close too. My beast cringes and goes nuts when I even think about, " I will NEVER drink again, forever, for the rest of my life". If I say that, it will be because I mean it.

The wine on St. Paddy's day was because it was offerred to me and I just said...what the f..... Had one glass. Didn't taste good. Didn't want more.

The martinis were on my birthday. My favorite restaurant. My alcoholic husband ordered wine. I sat there, staring, my AV said to me..."come on, it's your birthday....". I said "why hello Beast, I think I will have one". Tasted pretty good, so had another.
Spent 200$ on food, vomited it up on the way home because the booze made me sick. Did not enjoy that at all.

Thank you so much for engaging me and responding to my posts. Really helps me continue to think.
Pam
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:08 PM
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Hello Doctor,

Your story sounded very familiar. I too went to an AA based rehab program and I was told that if you don't go to AA meetings and don't work the 12 steps, you're going to relapse or have have worse chances of maintaining long term sobriety. Now, I've come to learn that this is not true at all.
It seems that there is some good advice here in this thread. Other users have mentioned that you need to do what works best for you. What works well for one person might not work well another.
I wish you the best with long term sobriety. You are a strong person and can do this if you set your mind to it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
I think I'm gettin close too. My beast cringes and goes nuts when I even think about, " I will NEVER drink again, forever, for the rest of my life". If I say that, it will be because I mean it.

The wine on St. Paddy's day was because it was offerred to me and I just said...what the f..... Had one glass. Didn't taste good. Didn't want more.

The martinis were on my birthday. My favorite restaurant. My alcoholic husband ordered wine. I sat there, staring, my AV said to me..."come on, it's your birthday....". I said "why hello Beast, I think I will have one". Tasted pretty good, so had another.
Spent 200$ on food, vomited it up on the way home because the booze made me sick. Did not enjoy that at all.

Thank you so much for engaging me and responding to my posts. Really helps me continue to think.
Pam
It sounds to me like you understand what is at stake in becoming permanently abstinent. Are you including illegal drug and prescription drug abuse in your Big Plan contemplations? I noticed in another thread you mentioned something about your having a tendency to like the pleasure of drugs as well.

I was a binge drinker and pot smoker. I knew I had to quit for periods to be able to con the world into thinking I was OK. I knew I wasn't, but my AV got pretty obstinate and domineering as I tried to plan out each new binge.

You clearly have a dominant AV. It doesn't hesitate to take an oath - "I swear, If I have to listen to some of the religious stuff that goes on in another AA meeting, I WILL pick up a drink." So, it's not that you have an aversion to oaths, otherwise It probably wouldn't be so quick to make one.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:11 PM
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I stopped smoking pot 2 years ago. I stay away from narcotics because it would be too easy to get addicted. Benzos too, really anything that I know will give me a buzz - got to stay away from ALL of it. I like getting high and getting high is bad for me. I want to stop doing things to my body that are bad.

That is so true about my AV. I need to be way more cognizant of it than I am now. Very sneaky.

This is very helpful. I need to spend more time on the AVRT threads and less time on the Newcomers to Recovery board.

Thanks for y'all being so supportive and helpful - I mean it - this is VERY helpful to me.

Pam
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
...The martinis were on my birthday. My favorite restaurant. My alcoholic husband ordered wine. I sat there, staring, my AV said to me..."come on, it's your birthday....". I said "why hello Beast, I think I will have one". Tasted pretty good, so had another...
Wine is usually the choice with expensive food. It sounds like the gin and vomiting was a convoluted acting out, like you cut your Beast loose and gave it the whole nine yards, possibly to create some variance or ultimatum in the comingling of your husband's and your own AVs.

As you think about making a Big Plan, how much does your husband's AV play an influencial role?
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:48 AM
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Oh, my husbands AV is on loud speaker in our home! His Beast is very upset that it lost its favorite party bud - me and my Beast.

My husband was appalled when he saw me spiral down into morning to night drinking, the shakes, morning nausea, drinking in the middle of the night, etc. It took me awhile to convince him that I really needed to detox/rehab. Now, he is definately supportive of me not drinking because he is afraid I will get "bad" again. He also likes seeing me be happy, calm and a way better Mom to our 10 year old daughter.

His Beast thinks that maybe I will be able to resume moderate drinking at some point. My Beast definately wants that - don't all Beasts? I don't think I would be able to, and I don't want to take any chances. Why drink when it doesn't feel good anymore? It's not worth it.

I LOVE being sober - it's the calm feelings that I have that I particularly savor.

I have all sorts of professional plans to advance my career that I would never do if I was still drinking. And I'm hopeful and enthuiastic and optimistic - can't feel those when I'm drinking.

Still.....Big Plan....not ready to make it but I sure do think about it.

Thank you,
Pam
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:58 AM
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Pam, welcome to Secular Connections. I'm learning a lot from your posts. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:17 AM
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Pam, in addition to RR, I have found that moving from a bad place can be hard but moving to a good place is a lot easier. I used to run when I was in my 20s and early to mid 30s so I have gotten back into running again. It is a positive thing that is 180 degrees from my drinking. Even when my AV rears it head it's easy to say, sorry, I can't drink tonight, I have a run tomorrow morning. It hasn't replaced my big plan and even if I'm not running I will never drink again but it gives me a positive to look forward to. I'm even trying to convince my beast that he is fat and out of shape and he better get with the running program as well.

Your friend,
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:02 AM
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Pam, the other nice thing about the running is if anyone offers you a drink they seem to accept "I've started running and I'm in training" as a completely valid reason to not drink.
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