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Old 05-02-2012, 08:09 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
...Still.....Big Plan....not ready to make it but I sure do think about it.

Thank you,
Pam
Pam,

When you think of making the Big Plan, what positive feelings do you sense are there or would be there when you make it?

To me, the Big Plan was big, but in the context of what I knew was the type of life I wanted to live, it actually terminated an extremely narrow and precisely identifiable type of behavior - putting alcohol, drugs in my mouth and lungs. I mean, how more willful in-my-face specific an action could ever be defined? That's why I soon discovered it was easier than I thought. There was a real loss, but Wow, the payoff so outweighed the loss.

Also, check out p. 133 at the bottom starting with "Keep in mind..." in RR:TNC and reread as far as you want.

GT
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:07 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Big Plan ramblings

Pam,

Your acknowledgment of my last post with "thanks" only, is more than adequate and fully compatible with an AVRT approach to quitting. The Big Plan is a very personal decision, one that can never be proven to anyone else. At the same time, it is also impossible for the Big Plan maker to be uncertain whether s/he really made it. So, congratulations on whatever your educated decision was or will be regarding the future use of alcohol and drugs, and I wish you all the best.

GT

To move ahead, though, as this is a discussion forum - I was thinking a long time ago how it could possibly be proven that someone had made a Big Plan. The only idea I could come up with would be by using some expensive technology and monitoring that hasn't been adequately designed yet.

A person would have to be willing to have alcohol/drug sensors implanted with a signaling (or internal recording) device that would alert a monitoring authority (in real time or at a later reading) if alcohol/drugs were identified in their blood. Even then, a true Big Plan proof would not be complete until the person died.

My guess is that this technology is not too far off, as there would seem to be a rationale for making it available to people convicted of certain alcohol and drug related crimes as an offset to more severe punishment. It would obviously be more accurate than random testing.

I can also imagine experimenting would be possible with various groups of people having these implants.

If there were no physical danger to such an implant, someone with a Big Plan would logically be completely unconcerned about having one inserted (also neglecting any political views about loss of privacy to authorities).

Would I be willing to get one for some experiment? Sure, if it wasn't dangerous, and the payment for being a subject was adequate.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:40 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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LOL! My "thanks only" is a reflection of an 80+ hour work week, sick 10 year old and husband out of town.

No Big Plan commitment yet. Just got out of a therapy appointment, explained, as best I could, AVRT, AV and Beast behavior to my shrink. Sounded to me like I knew what I was talking about. Got in the car and read your post. When I make My BP, ( "if" says my beast), sign me up for the implanted chip because I would have no problems proving that I don't drink, ever.

Thanks for your support, it means more than I can say.

Pam
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:45 PM
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RR:TNC p. 143 "Looks Can Kill"

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
...No Big Plan commitment yet. Just got out of a therapy appointment, explained, as best I could, AVRT, AV and Beast behavior to my shrink. Sounded to me like I knew what I was talking about. ...

Pam
Hi Pam,
I was pretty sure you were not gone, but I like to squeeze in AVRT concepts whenever possible.

You are trained at keeping a person on the brink of death alive. It's hard to imagine a more worthy career goal. I come from a medical family and know the motivations.

The irony is, the goal here is the opposite. "AVRT puts you in a position of trying to "kill" a living, feeling thing - your Beast, a part of yourself." (p. 143 RR:TNC) You are not uncomfortable with life-and-death situations, in fact that's where you shine, so, I'm guessing, that may be why you are taking your time at a Big Plan.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:08 PM
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You are correct, I am not uncomfortable in making life or death decisions in my work. It is what I do, it is my job and I am well trained.

BUT..... I do not actively kill anyone or anything knowingly, except insects.

My Beast has always been around - my best party bud - I guess even better than my husband used to be. Beast kept me company high or low, happy or sad. I need to be really, really sure before I kill him - and is it not interesting that my Beast is male? Why is it not female? Is the Beast always male?

I feel like I am in a transition time where I am getting used to seeing Beast as enemy and not friend. Ultimately, I think I need to get to the point where I just don't give a sh*t about him - then his death will be very anti-climactic.

Pam
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:05 PM
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The Beast is Only Desire

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
You are correct, I am not uncomfortable in making life or death decisions in my work. It is what I do, it is my job and I am well trained.

BUT..... I do not actively kill anyone or anything knowingly, except insects.

My Beast has always been around - my best party bud - I guess even better than my husband used to be. Beast kept me company high or low, happy or sad. I need to be really, really sure before I kill him - and is it not interesting that my Beast is male? Why is it not female? Is the Beast always male?

I feel like I am in a transition time where I am getting used to seeing Beast as enemy and not friend. Ultimately, I think I need to get to the point where I just don't give a sh*t about him - then his death will be very anti-climactic.

Pam
The Beast is often the same sex, but quite frequently the opposite or neutral, I don't know which is most prevalent.

There's an important distinction in AVRT that may make it easier to confront the Beast as an enemy.

The Beast is only the desire to drink, it is not you under the influence. Once the effect of alcohol sets in, the Beast evaporates into nothingness along with the real you until your body finally flushes the alcohol from your system.

When I quit drinking, I felt grief over the loss of me being under the influence, not of me wanting to drink or figuring out how to get away with it. The feeling of being drunk and the memories I had acquired while under the influence were somehow a personal possession that I was ambivalent about giving up. AVRT, of course, sorts all that out.

I then had a period of drinking dreams that caused me to realize that there were memories I could only access while under the influence. When the dreams stopped, those were gone, too. By that time, I was perfectly OK with the loss, no ambivalence. But my AV was still there. For a while, my AV created in the back of my mind an anxiety that I had actually failed at my Big Plan, even though I hadn't. When I focused on it, it evaporated in a few seconds, and eventually never came back.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:22 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Pam, I've been reading this thread with great interest.

I'm not certain that there is any huge rush to make your big plan. It took me about 8 months before I was ready to take the plunge. I don't look at that time as wasted though.

If there is one thing I'm certain of it is that each of us needs to find our own way through this thing and that most people will not be pushed into something unless theyre ready for it.

Good luck with the BP! You'll get there.
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:29 PM
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Memories of good times with a nice buzz - many years of them. Somehow the good times turned bad. Doesn't really matter why, it just did, and there will no longer be "good times" associated with drinking . Those days are gone forever- yeah, I grieve that. I now accept that loss too instead of being angry, bargaining or denying.

There are NO more drunken times for me- either good or bad. It has taken me almost 5 months to feel that truth.

So I should be stating my BP right now right???? LOL. It is driving me crazy.

Pam
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Old 05-05-2012, 04:18 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
Memories of good times with a nice buzz - many years of them. Somehow the good times turned bad. Doesn't really matter why, it just did, and there will no longer be "good times" associated with drinking . Those days are gone forever- yeah, I grieve that. I now accept that loss too instead of being angry, bargaining or denying.

There are NO more drunken times for me- either good or bad. It has taken me almost 5 months to feel that truth.

So I should be stating my BP right now right???? LOL. It is driving me crazy.

Pam
Pam,

It's your hand on that plug running your Beast's life support, and I'd help you pull it if I could, but you're the only one allowed in that room. Nevertheless, you've gone so far, I think it's inevitable.

GT
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:39 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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This thread carries on in the Big Plan thread - http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-big-plan.html
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