No, the 'just for today' thing it is not the same as the never-ending now of AVRT, not by a long shot. Compare and contrast: "I will never now drink." with "I will not drink today." Do you see what is missing? The key word is 'never'. The corresponding analogue with one day as a time measure would actually be: I will never drink on any given day. (regardless of what day it is) Bingo. I will never drink again is not a saying. It is a truth that you feel. I am a type 2 diabetic. When I was diagnosed and went to class to learn how to control my diabetes I learned that I could never eat sugar again, as well as some other stuff. At that moment right there I decided I will never eat sugar again. That was 5 years ago. My mind set did a 180 and I didn't use sugar, I didn't eat candy and sweets and deserts with sugar, sugar was no longer part of my life. Anyway the never term feels |
This is my problem. As soon as I use an extreme word, whether it be Never, Ever, Nothing or All my thoughts snowball out of control. That is not a good balanced place to be. Its the opposite of balanced for me actually. |
This is my problem. As soon as I use an extreme word, whether it be Never, Ever, Nothing or All my thoughts snowball out of control. That is not a good balanced place to be. Its the opposite of balanced for me actually. Yes it's an extreme word and almost has an angry feel to it. I envision or would like my future drinking statement to be similar to how my smoking one is now. I don't smoke. I don't drink. |
If that works cool beans man, I am not going to argue with a good thing. as far as the urges one month out I do think that AVRT could help. One of its main priciples if you call them that is learning to recognize those urges hoever they manifest and dismissing them for exactly what they are. There are excersizes in the book to practise this skill, so when you do decide to quit with or without the antabuse, then you will be better prepared to handle those "one month out urges".
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3321379)
I appreciate you taking the time to write all that InsertRightHere I find it helpful. |
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3321490)
I see what you are saying but practically speaking if followed, meaning that if you follow a daily "I will not drink today no matter what", you will also never drink. BTW, if it helps, "I will never drink again" = "I will never drink in the present moment" |
Originally Posted by InsertNameHere
(Post 3321543)
If that works cool beans man, I am not going to argue with a good thing. as far as the urges one month out I do think that AVRT could help. One of its main priciples if you call them that is learning to recognize those urges hoever they manifest and dismissing them for exactly what they are. There are excersizes in the book to practise this skill, so when you do decide to quit with or without the antabuse, then you will be better prepared to handle those "one month out urges". :rotfxko Your very welcome, but this ^ had me rolling Its InsertNameHere not Right here :rotfxko where is your mind at ;) thanks, sorry about that! |
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3321506)
Yes [never] is an extreme word and almost has an angry feel to it. |
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3321562)
thanks, sorry about that! |
I moved my Big Plan into the eternal Now, because that shift fitted with something I was trying in order to deal with my depression and anxiety. Mindfulness and Mindfulness based cognitive therapy appealed to me and still do, as my form of 'spiritual awakening'. My Big Plan is a view of me in an existence where alcohol is not a consideration. My words are weak here, but I am trying to say that my feeling consciousness, the one that inhabits the eternal present moment, will never drink. And another thing: INH did a great job of explaining RR and AVRT. Welcome to the team! |
Originally Posted by pentuate I am essentially behaving in a way where I will never drink, but without saying never. So in sense most day at a time statements are really never statements if followed. I think i prefer a today statement because it deals with the now in a closer way than does a never statement which to me suggests the future.
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique Furthermore, AVRT is a voracious mind-set that devours anything that poses as a condition of lifetime abstinence, including antabuse. |
Originally Posted by Shockozulu As soon as I use an extreme word, whether it be Never, Ever, Nothing or All my thoughts snowball out of control. That is not a good balanced place to be. Its the opposite of balanced for me actually. |
I have some nevers, though I don't think of them as nevers. They are more just self evident things. I never steal from a store (perhaps I would if there were no other options - so perhaps that is not a never) and I have not ever stolen from a store up to this point. I don't cheat. But i don't think or affirm I never cheat and i never will. To say that to myself seems like I am trying to convince myself of something. Even just saying that feels like some sort of extra restriction or tension. The other thing is, unlike these "nevers" that I have, where I have actually not done these things, drinking, I have done, big time. A more accurate statement or assessment would be, historically, I drink/drank often and in large amounts. Certainly not never. To say I never drink seems a little delusional given my history, lol. I have stopped drinking seems a more rational thing to say imo. I think if you replace "drinking" with any other "doing" in the i never and will never statement the uneasiness and "oddness" and I guess aggressiveness of it becomes more apparent. |
I fully understand the aversion to the word "never", but it is the beast's aversion, not yours. Why do you fear the discomfort that "never" creates? I think if you fully understand the I/It split, you will understand that you have nothing to fear or feel uncomfortable about. Never is very liberating. If someone is known to overeat and has an obvious obesity issue and they said to you, I never overeat, and I will never change my mind, wouldn't that sound/seem strange? |
I looked at things differently. My big plan is I will never drink again and I will never change my mind. The "will" makes a big difference. It's like a vow, from this point forward I will never drink. It is a positive not a negative in my viewpoint. Your friend, |
I've made many "never" kind of vows in the past with drinking and other things and I think most if not all of them failed. I don't seem to have much success with "never". I think i will just kind of use the idea of a beast wanting to drink and to just ignore it and not get too hung up on what I will or will not never/ever do. I guess I can just say to this av, "i don't drink anymore beast, sorry" or something like that. Maybe without the sorry. Really I just don't want to drink anymore. I don't care how I do it as long as it breaks the addiction/works. Based on my own experience with addictive things like pot and cigarettes, it seems the most important thing is to reject or not respond to the urge and keep doing it and the urges will weaken and eventually no longer exist/happen given enough time. |
pentuate, I don't know if this is an AVRT thing or not but one thing that helps me is I find it easier to move to a good place than away from a bad place. I have started running again as my good place to go, or my new self image if you will. I don't just not eat sugar or drink because it is bad for my blood sugar as a diabetic but because it is not consistent with this new image of myself as a runner. I might be a fat, slow, old runner but by god I'm a runner. I'm now up to 3 to 4 miles a day. This change in self image makes it much easier to say no to urges. Another thing is that once you get to the point you are running 3 or more miles running becomes a pleasure rather than a chore. It is a primitive activity that I actually think satisfies some of the beast's needs. It doesn't take the place of AVRT but I think it supplements it very well. Your friend, |
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3322165)
I have some nevers, though I don't think of them as nevers. They are more just self evident things. I never steal from a store (perhaps I would if there were no other options - so perhaps that is not a never) and I have not ever stolen from a store up to this point. I don't cheat. But i don't think or affirm I never cheat and i never will.
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3322165)
The other thing is, unlike these "nevers" that I have, where I have actually not done these things, drinking, I have done, big time. A more accurate statement or assessment would be, historically, I drink/drank often and in large amounts. Certainly not never. "I will never drink again." What do you think 'again' means, pentuate? It means that you have done it before. Unlike someone who hasn't done it before, you can therefore judge that it would be very bad for you to do it again, and very good to never do it again.
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3322284)
Based on my own experience with addictive things like pot and cigarettes, it seems the most important thing is to reject or not respond to the urge and keep doing it and the urges will weaken and eventually no longer exist/happen given enough time. See this post and the few that follow it: I have no desire to drink -
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3322284)
I've made many "never" kind of vows in the past with drinking and other things and I think most if not all of them failed. I don't seem to have much success with "never".
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3322284)
I think i will just kind of use the idea of a beast wanting to drink and to just ignore it and not get too hung up on what I will or will not never/ever do. |
If I said "I never drank" that would be silly, not to mention delusional, since there is a legal and medical paper trail which substantiates my drinking. I can however say "I will never drink again", and I did say that. My only point was to consider that the word never makes your beast uncomfortable, not you. Pentuate, you are free to do as you wish, of course. |
Ok well, the statement I've seen around here in these AVRT threads is: "I never drink and I will never change my mind for better or for worse" You have to include the missing "will", "again" or "now" for it to make sense now don't you? It's not really optional like the tone here suggests is what I'm saying in addition to my other issues with the word "never". "I have no desire to drink" naturally begs the question: "What if you did? What then?" Then I likely would feel uncomfortable and it would be a battle like it was initially. Like if I still had the kind of urges I did when I quit smoking today (instead of no urges) then it would be tough and torture (and I probably would have failed a long time ago) instead of effortless and an non issue. |
Originally Posted by pentuate
(Post 3322538)
It's not really optional like the tone here suggests is what I'm saying in addition to my other issues with the word "never".
Originally Posted by The Art of AVRT © by Jack Trimpey, Pg. 48 The Big Plan: A personal commitment to lifetime abstinence from alcohol and other hedonic durgs, starting right now. Without a Big Plan, there is no AVRT. A Big Plan goes like this, "I will never drink/use again." |
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:07 PM. |