Go Back  SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information > Secular Recovery > Secular Connections
Reload this Page >

Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 4

Blogs


Notices

Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 4

Old 02-27-2012, 06:44 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
... since AVRT is a registered trademark, what are you able to do in terms of using the term AVRT in forum posts, blogs, books, etc?

I would really like to write an article/some instructions on using AVRT for food addiction. Would I be allowed to reference it as AVRT and publish it online?
My understanding is that AVRT is registered in order to prevent it from being incorporated into an addiction treatment program or being offered as a professional service, which would alter its meaning as a method of self-recovery. If you are thinking of using it in a book, I would suggest contacting Rational Recovery directly to get permission to do so.

RR, according to our own definition, is the concept of self-recovery from substance addiction. We have compiled the lore of self-recovery into a simple educational format called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique® (AVRT)...

RRS, Inc., denies the use of the names Rational Recovery® and AVRT® to the professional community, to public institutions, and to the recovery group movement. Very significantly, RRS, Inc., grants a blanket license in perpetuity for any individual to use all of its registered trademarks as a way to describe how he or she has chosen to become permanently abstinent from alcohol and other drugs.

From "RR: A Legacy Of The People, By The People, And For The People"

Copyright © The Journal of Rational Recovery, March - April, 1999
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
kanamit (02-27-2012)
Old 02-27-2012, 06:56 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
I haven't read this myself, so I can't really comment on it, but RR does have that "Taming the Feast Beast" book. I do know it was written before RR:TNC, however, so I expect that the presentation of AVRT is not quite as comprehensive in that book. Might be a good complement, though.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Dominorose (03-29-2013)
Old 02-27-2012, 06:57 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
That is a useful quote, thanks.

For when I finally get round to it, I was just going to post it online for free, to anyone that wants it.

Given how quickly Jack Trimpey responded to me when I emailed him, I guess I'm best off going straight to the horse's mouth.
kanamit is offline  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:06 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by Dominorose View Post
And I have read a book called "Brain over binge", written by an old bulimic who recovered with the AVRT's method. And I am conviced it is the only way for me to recover too.
I have just downloaded this to my phone and will let you know once I've read it.
kanamit is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to kanamit For This Useful Post:
Dominorose (03-29-2013)
Old 02-28-2012, 07:55 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
RE: A note on "harm reduction"

There was a link posted on another thread to a website peddling an 'adapted' perversion of AVRT that intentionally allows for planned drunks.

Word to the wise: THIS IS NOT AVRT.

Addiction recovery, as defined by AVRT, is planned, permanent abstinence. The Addictive Voice, as defined by AVRT is "any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or drugs -- ever."

Harm reduction assumes that you will keep drinking and getting high, actively and purposefully. By their own definition and mission statement, "HAMS is all about empowering people to use alcohol or drugs in a safe and sane manner." If that isn't pristine Addictive Voice, I don't know what is. Those harm reductionists on that web site are making things up as they go along so that they can keep getting high.

Originally Posted by "RR: TNC" © by Jack Trimpey, Pg. 134

In the logic of AVRT, the absence of a plan to quit for good is a plan, now, to drink.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Thrifty (05-24-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 08:46 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
RE: "It doesn't feel good anymore"

I posted this in response to a question about whether or not you would go back to drinking if there weren't any health consequences, but I think it deserves mention on here. Many people stop drinking and then continually tell themselves that they don't drink because "it doesn't feel good anymore."

It is subtle, but this sentiment is AV, since it implies that if it did feel good, that you would go ahead and drink. It may 'not feel good' now, but it sure did at some point, and your Beast isn't likely to ever forget that. Furthermore, if you make your abstinence contingent on drinking 'not feeling good', all your Beast has to do is convince you that it would feel good, and it has plenty of time to do this.

You have to close this Beast hole. I had to quit drinking in spite of it feeling good, because, while it no longer felt very good by the time I quit, here's how my head talk would sound:

I: Boy, drinking sure doesn't feel very good these days. I think I'll stop drinking.
(Some time goes by...)
AV: You need a drink.

I: Drinking doesn't feel good anymore, it won't be worth it.

AV: Well, that was back then when you swore off. You've been sober for 'X' days now, though. Surely it will fell good now that you've gotten healthy again.

I: Hmm... It has a point.

(GLUG GLUG GLUG)
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
californiapoppy (02-29-2012), KaliCali (03-31-2012), kanamit (02-28-2012), RevivingOphelia (04-08-2012), Tippingpoint (03-12-2012), topspin (02-28-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 08:59 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,272
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
...if you make your abstinence contingent ...
If you make your abstinence contingent on anything other than abstinence, there are holes. All contingencies are AV.
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
Fallow (02-28-2012), hosea57 (02-28-2012), RobbyRobot (02-28-2012), Terminally Unique (02-28-2012), Tippingpoint (03-12-2012), topspin (02-29-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 73
Im not sure if this is against the posting policy- if so - just delete, I wont be offended. But, I decided upon reading the first threads that Im going this route- still going to another popular program of recovery for the support and to hear stories etc.
At todays gathering the reading was such that 3 people confessed to not believing in a higher power- I was flabbergasted- they were pretty advanced in recovery (actually It was only two- I was the third) again- if this is out of protocol just delete- I don't want to mess with anyones efforts.
Bob36 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Bob36 For This Useful Post:
soberlicious (02-28-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 01:55 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Bob36,

It is not uncommon for people first learning AVRT to still go to meetings. You should be aware, though, that viewed through the lens of AVRT, much of the lingo (ie, the slogans) will be identified as Addictive Voice ("any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or drugs -- ever").

For example:

Slogan: "Meeting Makers Make It"

AV: If you don't make a meeting, you might drink!

Slogan: "Don't get too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired (HALT)"

AV: If you get hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, you might drink!

etc., etc.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
californiapoppy (02-29-2012), cheeto (05-27-2013), freshstart57 (03-01-2012), hosea57 (02-28-2012), RobbyRobot (02-29-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 02:11 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
If you make your abstinence contingent on anything other than abstinence, there are holes. All contingencies are AV.
Are you sure you're not an 'AVRT person', soberlicious?
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (02-29-2012), RobbyRobot (02-29-2012), soberlicious (02-28-2012), Tippingpoint (03-12-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 73
I get that TU-thanks to having read more thoroughly. Ill still go- if for no other reason than to cheerlead.
Ive had a wonderful week and have no doubt that I will never use coke again. Funny,but before someone thought to trademark the word "beast" my father and grandfather both quit drinking based on similar principles. My grandfather quit compulsive gamblimg as well. I look foward to learning the techniques more. But the concept reasonates powerfully- Icouldnt stop laughing as i read the site.
Some of the observations made remind me of things I used to say long ago. Also- things i routinely say to my kids.
Bob36 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Bob36 For This Useful Post:
soberlicious (02-28-2012)
Old 02-28-2012, 05:40 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,272
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Are you sure you're not an 'AVRT person', soberlicious?
LOL Let's just say I have an AVRTish nature...
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (02-29-2012), RobbyRobot (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 07:22 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France
Posts: 783
For DominoRose, there is an "Eating Disorder" Forum on Sober Recovery, you might find people who know more about what you are going through.

Just to let you know also, I speak and write fluent French if ever you have a problem understanding, but your English seems perfectly fluent to me. Si tu as un problème t'as qu'à demander, au moins on devrait avoir les mêmes horaires....
californiapoppy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to californiapoppy For This Useful Post:
Dominorose (03-29-2013)
Old 02-29-2012, 08:34 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
If you make your abstinence contingent on anything other than abstinence, there are holes. All contingencies are AV.
Here's a riddle... For AVRT to 'work', you need to recognize the Addictive Voice, which technically makes recognition a contingency. Does this then make recognition itself AV? This could lead to a headache.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Bob36 (02-29-2012), KaliCali (03-31-2012), RobbyRobot (02-29-2012), soberlicious (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 09:46 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,272
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Here's a riddle... For AVRT to 'work', you need to recognize the Addictive Voice, which technically makes recognition a contingency. Does this then make recognition itself AV? This could lead to a headache.
LOL "riddle me this"...just like the Joker
I guess what I have always done is err on the side of caution. Anything that makes me feel "sniggly" (for a lack of a more precise term), I dismiss as AV. Whether it is or not matters not, as long as I don't drink. ever.
As far as heartache goes, I'm familiar with that too. I don't fear it any more than I do the beast. I can watch it come, sit with it for as long as it's there, and watch it go...if I so choose.
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (02-29-2012), RobbyRobot (02-29-2012), Tippingpoint (03-12-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 12:29 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Bob36 View Post
Funny, but before someone thought to trademark the word "beast" my father and grandfather both quit drinking based on similar principles. My grandfather quit compulsive gambling as well.
This is not surprising. AVRT is just the lore, or wisdom, of self-recovery, based on the collected experience of thousands of people who recovered on their own steam. AVRT is street-wise, old-school recovery, hearkening back to the bad old days before addiction treatment or recovery groups ever existed. People who quit their addictions generally do so along these lines, they just don't talk about it much. This is why soberlicious has caught on so quickly, for example. All we are doing here is actually talking about it — a lot.

Originally Posted by Jack Trimpey
AVRT is a product of addicted people themselves, who reported their subjective experiences to a formerly-addicted person who was able to "hear" their unmistakable message.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
RobbyRobot (02-29-2012), soberlicious (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 02:27 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,272
Lol I see you said "headache" not "heartache". I let those pass too
The self recovered population is certainly harder to examine since they aren't usually at meetings. Do you know roughly how many people Trimpey interviewed? Is that how he compiled these strategies? Wonder where he found these folks...
soberlicious is offline  
Old 02-29-2012, 06:56 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
Adventures In SpaceTime
 
RobbyRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Here's a riddle... For AVRT to 'work', you need to recognize the Addictive Voice, which technically makes recognition a contingency. Does this then make recognition itself AV? This could lead to a headache.
The act of recognition of the AV is analogous to recognizing how a beam of light defines both itself and the edge of the darkness surrounding that light. Recognition is an awareness and not itself AV.

So methinks
RobbyRobot is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to RobbyRobot For This Useful Post:
freshstart57 (02-29-2012), ReadyAndAble (03-01-2012), soberlicious (02-29-2012), Terminally Unique (02-29-2012), Tippingpoint (03-12-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 07:35 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
The self recovered population is certainly harder to examine since they aren't usually at meetings. Do you know roughly how many people Trimpey interviewed? Is that how he compiled these strategies? Wonder where he found these folks...
I don't have numbers, but recall that Rational Recovery at one point fielded the largest "alternative" recovery group movement to date, and did have meetings. Trimpey already had decades of experience in community mental health prior to founding RR, and was a trained RET/REBT therapist. Not surprisingly, he initially based RR on RET/REBT, but since he had himself recovered on his own, the seeds of AVRT were present. This can be seen plainly from the 25-page chapter titled "Voices" in The Small Book.

I know that he spoke with people who had independently recovered, but he effectively learned to refine AVRT based on feedback from RR members and RR group coordinators. This refinement is actually documented in the Journal of Rational Recovery, and you literally see AVRT coming into shape over the course of about 10 years. He also received feedback from people who attended AVRT classes. Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction alone was three years in the making, with an intermediary edition titled The Final Fix.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Lenina (03-01-2012), redhead323 (06-30-2012), RobbyRobot (03-01-2012), soberlicious (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 08:49 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:   « USA »                       Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
How You Work "IT" by Bill Benson


How You Work "IT"
by Bill Benson

Never have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly and consistently practiced AVRT. Those who do not recover are people who are entirely capable but unwilling to make a personal commitment to permanent abstinence. They have the personal freedom to continue their dependency with the risk of suffering and death. They are not unfortunates, they are chemically dependent by choice! Their choice is made. The natural capability to grasp and develop a manner of living which allows freedom and longevity is theirs for the taking. Their chances of recovery are one-hundred percent guaranteed — right now!

If they decide they want a better life and are willing to never drink again, they will recognize an inner voice which balks. All of us balked at the idea of a Big Plan; if we hadn't, we wouldn't have been addicted! Some say, "It's too simple. How can it work?" It doesn't work. Nothing works. But anyone can quit right now for good! Some of us looked for an easier, less direct way, and thought we could depend on others or ask God to do what is ours to do. But we could not find a less direct way than to quit once and for all time.

With all the earnestness at our command, we challenged the fear of abstinence and found it was a needless fear. We stayed who we were from the start and held on to values that gave our lives meaning. Remember, we are dealing only with alcohol. It is neither cunning nor baffling nor powerful. It is an inanimate substance which sits on a shelf until it is taken and consumed.

We stood at a turning point and decided, "There is but one who can quit an addiction, and it is I." Let us find ourselves now! We asked for no protection against our innate desire for pleasure, and turned to planned, lifetime abstinence with complete abandon. We took no steps on the way to quitting, because any step is only an evasion of immediate responsibility.

A lifetime in the problem promises a lifetime of dependency but free will is yours and mine. Half-hearted commitments don't make it, but full measures avail us everything. We stand at the turning point and say, "I will never drink again!"

This is the book we read, The Final Fix by Jack Trimpey. Some have exclaimed, "What a Plan, I can't say never!" But that was only the Addictive Voice. We come to recognize that to doubt our ability to abstain is a favorite tactic of the Addictive Voice. Anyone can maintain perfect, permanent abstinence with AVRT, if that is what they decide to do.

Our description of addiction makes clear these pertinent facts:
  1. We are not, nor were we ever, alcoholics, for no such creature exists. There is no barrier to abstinence except the lustful, animal side to human nature. We do not have a disease, nor do any of us need treatment or help to quit.

  2. When sober, we are competent human beings who can manage our lives quite well.

  3. God, however we may understand Him, could not object that someone would refuse alcohol or drugs without paying Him tribute.
Being convinced that we have had our last drink or our final fix, we are completely recovered and are free to return to normal lives! We hope for better lives and certain fulfillments, but we do not make those hopes a condition of our enduring commitment to abstinence from alcohol and drugs.


(Copyright © Journal of Rational Recovery, Volume 8, Issue 4, 1996 — all rights reserved.)
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
californiapoppy (03-01-2012), freshstart57 (03-01-2012), iceteaplease (03-01-2012), Lenina (03-01-2012), SoberDan (03-01-2012), soberlicious (02-29-2012), Thrifty (03-03-2012), Tippingpoint (03-12-2012)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:59 AM.