Aussiebutterfly

jberk, I haven't read back to see if you've made your Big Plan or not. What are you plans for futher drinking/using? I made my BP before my book arrived, the book was just a bonus so I had more tools for the AVRT. As soon as I did the free online crash course on the RR site and decided with my BP firmly in place knowing I will never drink again then I quit my meetings. It only took minutes to know I was finally free, I haven't drank in months after drinking heavily every waking moment I possibly could for a around 20 yrs. There was no need to waste my time doing something I didn't want to be doing and I didn't really feel any benift even though I was giving it my best try. At that time I thought support groups were the only way to stay sober so I went along. I wish I'd known it was so easy sooner.

If you have made your Big Plan your beast will squrim but he can't hurt you, you are master of this body so just say Never! That is enough to show who is boss. Aways remember there is no need to be in dialogue with the beast since if your aren't drinking/using EVER again there is nothing to discuss. It's final!

I felt those twinges too but I'm guessing mine were from being excited I can get on with my life and be with my family instead of at multiple meetings every day for the rest of my life. We weren't there for our loved ones when we were smashed so isn't it time to think of them and give them back the person they loved?

My life has changed already. My husband is not scared to take me on business dinners, camping, holidays etc.. and I know things are only going to keep getting better. I'm concentrating on eating right and excercise instead of when I can fit another glass or ten in.

Anyone that really WANTS to do this can but you have to want it or it's not going to work for you... best to go take another drink and come back when you really want to stop.

At the moment I have subscibed to the RR website. There is a very small fee and it's good to just check it out for a month or two then move on. I spent way more drinking in a week and even at meetings all those $1's add up and the books I bought weren't free although one was given to me. There is no need to spend money on the class or CD's unless you really don't get it by reading alone which I'm sure you will. If it could sink in with me after all the damage I'm sure my brain recieved then anyone can do it.

Good luck. I can't recommend AVRT enough!

jberk65

Thanks AussieButterfly, I decided last night that I don't need the AA meetings and have officially made my Big Plan.
Sunday night, was the sealer for me...
we had everyone over for mothers day..everyone bought there own alcohol, as always, and I was happily serving it out to the guests without a thought of drinking. And any "little nagging thoughts" were instantly dismissed and all that from the crash course on the web. The book becomes the final nails in the coffin for the beast.

So yes, I want to do it and will.
And thanks also GerandTwine, yep, it sounds like the book is the reason for the reaction from the beast

Jberk

Aussiebutterfly

That is wonderful!!! Good for you. Feels great doesn't it?

Yes you don't have to be scared of alcohol. It can't pour itself down your gullet right? Only you can do that but you won't because of your Big Plan.

GerandTwine

Congratulations to both of you. If you choose to stick around for a while, I'm sure others will benefit and be thankful.

Aussiebutterfly

G&T, I have a question. I have asked Jack Trimpey but still waiting for it to be explained to me so in the meantime maybe yourself or Terminally Unique can clear it up regarding us teaching AVRT. I know that when we are recovered we are supposed to move on with a regular life and forget about our past life of addiction so I was wondering if I/we shouldn't be here or elsewhere helping out. It does feel great though letting others know there is help if they want it. I have massive ACE from it so it can't be wrong surely

GerandTwine

I know we can't claim any professionalism or charge money for telling people what we know or think we know about AVRT. But I'm not sure what else.

I saw something about volunteering on the RR website under World Services but haven't looked into it any further.

When I caught on to AVRT I realized it is logical, uncomplicated, and iron-clad as a recovery technique. I see what we're doing here as simply talking about this rediscovered oral tradition of self-recovery and we're using the vocabulary of AVRT. I really can't imagine a better or easier way to quit for good.

Philosophies and other methods are also talked about here, so it's not just AVRT people ate hearing about.

ThisIsDANIEL

would it be possible to transverse the Big Plan statement of "I will never drink/use again" to something positive -- "I will ALWAYS remain sober, no matter what"

My beast finds it quite troubling to say that... and even when I have convinced myself by saying the former... I cannot dissociate myself from my beast it seems FOR GOOD. After a week or ten days I still get unbearable cravings. However... I DO enjoy my sober lifestyle moreso than my addictive one. Perhaps changing the language of the Big Plan will help me? Or if I cannot make a Big Plan using Never than it is really not a big plan and I will not dissociate myself from the beast for good?

Last Monday I woke up and I was fet up and I said the statement "I will never do this again, for the rest of my life, it's over" I beleived and there was very little head talk going on until Saturday morning when I got an unbearable craving and then before I knew it I was on autopilot. What did I do wrong?

GerandTwine

As I see it, the Big Plan is so simple and logical that all attempts to change it are clearly Addictive Voice activity. If drinking is wrong for me, then saying never about it is the most positive I can imagine.

You didn't do anything wrong. You decided to drink, and now you're here and don't seem the worse for it.

If you're interested in quitting using AVRT, get the book, Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction and read it twice slowly.

Also, read all four AVRT threads starting from the beginning. I'd also recommend putting "Thanks" after the posts that strike you as important. That way you will have a sort of marker system to look for if you want to brush up on it in the future.

If you want to do something right now to bring your own ambivalence about drinking more strongly into your consciousness, take the period of time that occurred in your quote here

and write a chronological description of exactly what you were thinking, feeling, and doing, as each second ticked by. Write down in detail starting with when you remember the desire to drink first came into your thoughts. What words did you think and write them down, what feelings did you feel, and write them down, and what did you actually do, and write that down - all in the order they actually happened up until you swallowed that first drink of alcohol. Any resistance in doing this important exercise your is Addictive Voice not wanting to be recognized.

Stayinfree

Hi everyone

I'm back for some support as right now I keep having major beast attacks and I can feel my mood getting lower by the day..............this is what would usually lead me to picking up again and I'm feeling damn angry right now.

I've been stopped for some weeks, haven't counted how many, but just today I caught my beast telling me to work out how long I've gone without, just so it can build up an argument for........'see you've been soo good'.

I even sat at the table this evening and told my husband how much I missed drinking, he, of course, said if I started again, I'd to find somewhere else to live.

I realise that it's getting control of my 'I' and I'm trying to claim it back, but I'm struggling.

Aussiebutterfly

Stayinfree, don't be frightened of your AV since "IT" can't do a thing other than make you feel desire! Ignore it, no discussion, just tell it NEVER then let the thought go.

Try the shifting excercise also.

Are you taking good care of yourself also? Walks help make you feel good as does eating well.

Aussiebutterfly

Also the bad mood and anger is your beast letting you know "It" is suffering and wants to drink so realise that and it will help. It means you are defeating that monster that was trying to kill you. Be glad!

GerandTwine

Stayinfree, I'm not sure about how to search this site, but it looks like this is your first post since I joined SR in January. I learned AVRT back when it was being developed and am here for altruistic reasons. I like to see people use AVRT to quit for good, and I like to see it understood uncorrupted by other ideas, even while it is being presented alongside other ideas about not drinking.

I hope you have a copy of RR:TNC by now. The exercise on p. 178 is a good one.

You say you've been drinking since your last post. You are now here and hopefully are not worse from the wear of the drinking. So, it has worked out for you so far.

Do you believe that it is wrong for you to ever drink again; so that you might die of old age having never again experienced the effects of alcohol?

Do you believe the choice your husband is giving you is reasonable?

Would you be willing to describe what you think and how it feels when you contemplate making a Big Plan?

Aussiebutterfly

G & T to search posts click on the posters name then the drop down will show. Click on the "Serch more posts by ......." You will then see all the past posts.

It seems that Stayinfree has already done their BP and read the book in the past. Perhaps read the book again. I know I need to plus the threads on here. Something will click that may have been missed the first time.

Stayinfree

Hi again

Yes I made a big plan a few weeks ago and have stuck to it, the problem for me is that I am surrounded by drinkers (apart from my husband), when I go to work I hear them all talk about it, when I'm at home where my business is, I hear my customers talk about it, so by the time I come in for the night, I'm feeling deprived!

I have read the book several times and I am often on here reading posts and keeping up with whats going on, even though I rarely post.

I think the longer I am sober, the beast sneaks up on me and gains control of 'I' without me realising, in the past this is where I would drink.

I probably need to read the book again! But I thought I would also start posting on here for some added support.

Thanks SF

soberlicious

Are YOU feeling deprived?

Dalek

Try the addiction diction (changing "I" to "IT") on your own posts, Stayinfree.

See the difference? The Beast is deprived, not you.

You say you've stuck to your Big Plan, but is there any reason that you wouldn't stick to it? Can you afford not to stick to it?

If you want to have some fun, try asking your Beast under what circumstances you wouldn't stick to your Big Plan. I did this once, and my Beast started telling me all of the lines and situations that it would try to use in the future. Good stuff to know.

GerandTwine

Hi SF,

If you've really made your once in a lifetime Big Plan, then you don't really have to be very good at recognizing your Addictive Voice. So congratulations. You now know you will never drink again, no matter what, for better or worse, and that means whether or not you recognize the AV.

If you are now ever to be found (by your husband, for instance) in a position where a container with alcohol in it is being held in your hand and moving towards your mouth it now means you are simply practicing shifting. Go ahead and smell it and put it down, you know you will not drink it because your Big Plan is irrevocable - it cannot be canceled, revoked, retracted, reversed, or altered in any way, because you know having Your Big Plan means it is impossible for you to swallow alcohol.

Also, it never hurts to very carefully reread Part II of RR:TNC. It makes it easier.

GT

Dalek

Good question. People and their Beasts usually have a preference for a certain drug, or a certain family of drugs (ie, stimulants, depressants, etc). The Beast is going to want to get high any which way it can, though, and just as it will "settle" for low-end drinks when the top shelf stuff isn't available, it will also settle for other drugs when its favorite stuff is out of the question.

I don't recall it being mentioned in the "New Cure" book, although I do remember it saying in there somewhere that "drink" and "use" are synonymous as far as AVRT is concerned. In later RR materials, this is made even more explicit, though, and the Big Plan is defined as a personal commitment to lifetime abstinence from alcohol and other hedonic drugs.

From a practical standpoint, this is probably a good idea anyway, since once you get high on any drug, your judgement becomes impaired. Once under the influence, there is a risk of going out and getting your favorite stuff, and the Beast will probably try to steer you in that direction. This is why people often go back to using their main drug when they try to switch to another one.

The Big Plan does not prohibit the use of legitimate medicine outright. You just have to follow the directions from your prescribing doctor and/or on the bottle, and not use it to get high, as you say you did with the opiates.

Your Beast is always going to get excited from any drug that creates a little bit of a buzz, but as long as you are aware of this, you should be able to make an informed decision. A good question to ask any doctor would be if there are non-opiate alternatives, though.

Dalek

Well, this certainly sucks...

I've started smoking cigarettes again after a very long hiatus. It didn't take very long at all to get hooked again real good, either. This wouldn't be too bad ordinarily, but my employer has a policy whereby smoking or chewing tobacco is strictly forbidden while on the job or in front of clients. It is just a matter of time before someone catches me sneaking a puff and I have to answer for it.

My Beast thinks that I have a very good sob story to explain and justify this reversal of intent, and that the no smoker employee policy is completely unreasonable. The Beast says how dare they discriminate against smokers, and why hasn't anyone passed a smoker's rights law yet anyway? We'll show them — we'll just get a new job! Yeah! Oh, and since you are smoking again, why not start drinking again, too?

I haven't heard this much AV head noise in a long time, but I do recognize it, loud and clear. Certainly brings back memories. So, why am I posting this on here and not in one of the smokers support forums instead? Well, I know how those tend to work, and I know that everyone would absolutely understand why I had a little relapse, since anyone would smoke under those same stressful circumstances.

That's not going to work for me, since AVRT really ruins the relapse business. I wouldn't even be able to believe that I had a relapse. No, I let the AV get a hold of the pronoun "I" when someone had a cigarette available, and then I, not the Beast, bummed one and smoked it. I later proceeded to buy a whole pack and very stupidly smoked that too. I know what I need to do, and that I need to do it very quickly.

I don't need the usual support right now, but if anyone is up for dishing out a proper AVRT-style reality check and attitude readjustment, please do.

jberk65

Hi Dalek, all the same principles apply. Do you want to keep your job or do you want to keep smoking.
You've quit before so this should be an easy choice and process.

Jberk

Btw I was being kind, wait till the others start on you.