Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 4
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sober State
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I'm on the relapse & nonsense chapter of RR.
I am amazed at how spot on this book is.
Like the parts about deciding to drink after having a bad/ upsetting day,then becoming happy once you decided to drink. By the time you drink you're not mad or upset anymore but you do it anyway.
I did that so many times. It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink. Amazing how It could sit in my mind for so long, going unnoticed. Putting ideas, images in my head & making me think they were my own.
I am loving this book way more than I thought I would!
I am amazed at how spot on this book is.
Like the parts about deciding to drink after having a bad/ upsetting day,then becoming happy once you decided to drink. By the time you drink you're not mad or upset anymore but you do it anyway.
I did that so many times. It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink. Amazing how It could sit in my mind for so long, going unnoticed. Putting ideas, images in my head & making me think they were my own.
I am loving this book way more than I thought I would!
I'm on the relapse & nonsense chapter of RR.
I am amazed at how spot on this book is.
Like the parts about deciding to drink after having a bad/ upsetting day,then becoming happy once you decided to drink. By the time you drink you're not mad or upset anymore but you do it anyway.
I did that so many times. It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink. Amazing how It could sit in my mind for so long, going unnoticed. Putting ideas, images in my head & making me think they were my own.
I am loving this book way more than I thought I would!
I am amazed at how spot on this book is.
Like the parts about deciding to drink after having a bad/ upsetting day,then becoming happy once you decided to drink. By the time you drink you're not mad or upset anymore but you do it anyway.
I did that so many times. It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink. Amazing how It could sit in my mind for so long, going unnoticed. Putting ideas, images in my head & making me think they were my own.
I am loving this book way more than I thought I would!
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 91
GT, I'm not sure I get what you mean in your last post. I think it is important though to understand how we (or it) uses bad feelings. Can you elaborate?
"By the time you drink you're not mad or upset anymore but you do it anyway."
The proof that people don't drink to get rid of bad experiences, feelings, or thoughts, is made by looking closely at what takes place between DECIDING to drink and FEELING THE EFFECTS after taking the drink. Anyone can do this by recalling past episodes.
People inevitably discover that, yes, they were feeling rotten when the idea to drink came to mind and was decided upon. But, in reviewing in detail the process of obtaining, opening, pouring, swallowing the alcohol, and waiting for it to kick in - and recalling what thoughts and feelings were happening during those very deliberate (and often time consuming) steps - people also inevitably discover that the original bad feelings and thoughts were gone and they were already feeling quite OK in anticipation of what they were just about to experience, that great buzz from booze. Yet, their blood alcohol content was still zero at that point.
So, it's not the actual buzz from booze that gets rid of the negativity. It's simply a series of thoughts and beliefs that did it. Bringing this awareness into the forefront of consciousness is what blows the cover of the AV. It wants you to believe that the alcohol is required to get rid of the negativity, but you now know it's not. You did it simply through thoughts and beliefs.
As PCL said, "It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink." Now that she knows what was going on, it exposes the AV's grand bluff and IT can't do it again.
Now, to go beyond the scope of AVRT, if you want, it's quite possible to figure out some other thoughts and beliefs to get rid of negativity. Naturally, it's ridiculous to imagine the anticipation of drinking would be the ONLY thoughts and beliefs that could do it. Of course, your AV wants you to keep believing that. But to believe that you MUST figure out how to get rid of negative thoughts and experiences in order to not drink is also your AV.
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine
Now, to go beyond the scope of AVRT, if you want, it's quite possible to figure out some other thoughts and beliefs to get rid of negativity. Naturally, it's ridiculous to imagine the anticipation of drinking would be the ONLY thoughts and beliefs that could do it. Of course, your AV wants you to keep believing that. But to believe that you MUST figure out how to get rid of negative thoughts and experiences in order to not drink is also your AV.
I am constantly amazed at the wisdom here.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
I used the critical sentence from PurpleCatLover's post as the subject. It's described in Figure 4. on p. 183 of Rational Recovery: The New Cure.
The proof that people don't drink to get rid of bad experiences, feelings, or thoughts, is made by looking closely at what takes place between DECIDING to drink and FEELING THE EFFECTS after taking the drink. Anyone can do this by recalling past episodes.
People inevitably discover that, yes, they were feeling rotten when the idea to drink came to mind and was decided upon. But, in reviewing in detail the process of obtaining, opening, pouring, swallowing the alcohol, and waiting for it to kick in - and recalling what thoughts and feelings were happening during those very deliberate (and often time consuming) steps - people also inevitably discover that the original bad feelings and thoughts were gone and they were already feeling quite OK in anticipation of what they were just about to experience, that great buzz from booze. Yet, their blood alcohol content was still zero at that point.
So, it's not the actual buzz from booze that gets rid of the negativity. It's simply a series of thoughts and beliefs that did it. Bringing this awareness into the forefront of consciousness is what blows the cover of the AV. It wants you to believe that the alcohol is required to get rid of the negativity, but you now know it's not. You did it simply through thoughts and beliefs.
As PCL said, "It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink." Now that she knows what was going on, it exposes the AV's grand bluff and IT can't do it again.
Now, to go beyond the scope of AVRT, if you want, it's quite possible to figure out some other thoughts and beliefs to get rid of negativity. Naturally, it's ridiculous to imagine the anticipation of drinking would be the ONLY thoughts and beliefs that could do it. Of course, your AV wants you to keep believing that. But to believe that you MUST figure out how to get rid of negative thoughts and experiences in order to not drink is also your AV.
The proof that people don't drink to get rid of bad experiences, feelings, or thoughts, is made by looking closely at what takes place between DECIDING to drink and FEELING THE EFFECTS after taking the drink. Anyone can do this by recalling past episodes.
People inevitably discover that, yes, they were feeling rotten when the idea to drink came to mind and was decided upon. But, in reviewing in detail the process of obtaining, opening, pouring, swallowing the alcohol, and waiting for it to kick in - and recalling what thoughts and feelings were happening during those very deliberate (and often time consuming) steps - people also inevitably discover that the original bad feelings and thoughts were gone and they were already feeling quite OK in anticipation of what they were just about to experience, that great buzz from booze. Yet, their blood alcohol content was still zero at that point.
So, it's not the actual buzz from booze that gets rid of the negativity. It's simply a series of thoughts and beliefs that did it. Bringing this awareness into the forefront of consciousness is what blows the cover of the AV. It wants you to believe that the alcohol is required to get rid of the negativity, but you now know it's not. You did it simply through thoughts and beliefs.
As PCL said, "It would just keep holding on to any bad feeling, even if it was gone, to get me to drink." Now that she knows what was going on, it exposes the AV's grand bluff and IT can't do it again.
Now, to go beyond the scope of AVRT, if you want, it's quite possible to figure out some other thoughts and beliefs to get rid of negativity. Naturally, it's ridiculous to imagine the anticipation of drinking would be the ONLY thoughts and beliefs that could do it. Of course, your AV wants you to keep believing that. But to believe that you MUST figure out how to get rid of negative thoughts and experiences in order to not drink is also your AV.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sober State
Posts: 1,126
I'm not sure if you can "make" those feelings at will. There are moments in time where I'm excited about going on vacation, seeing a loved one, etc
But those are genuine feelings caused by actual experiences.
I could be wrong but when the AV coerced you into drinking & you have that "arousal" feeling before hand(as described in RR) that anticipation is the Beast's excitement & joy of the upcoming intoxication.
You can feel what it feels & separate from it.
The actual feelings WHEN consuming alcohol are artificial. Chemically induced.
I don't think you can replicate "that" high feeling.
To want to do so would be AV trying to convince you that life is no good w/out "that" high feeling.
I can create positive feelings, naturally through exercise, sexual release, watching comedies, or indulging occasionally in death by chocolate cake
But those are genuine feelings caused by actual experiences.
I could be wrong but when the AV coerced you into drinking & you have that "arousal" feeling before hand(as described in RR) that anticipation is the Beast's excitement & joy of the upcoming intoxication.
You can feel what it feels & separate from it.
The actual feelings WHEN consuming alcohol are artificial. Chemically induced.
I don't think you can replicate "that" high feeling.
To want to do so would be AV trying to convince you that life is no good w/out "that" high feeling.
I can create positive feelings, naturally through exercise, sexual release, watching comedies, or indulging occasionally in death by chocolate cake
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
I'm not sure if you can "make" those feelings at will. There are moments in time where I'm excited about going on vacation, seeing a loved one, etc
But those are genuine feelings caused by actual experiences.
I could be wrong but when the AV coerced you into drinking & you have that "arousal" feeling before hand(as described in RR) that anticipation is the Beast's excitement & joy of the upcoming intoxication.
You can feel what it feels & separate from it.
The actual feelings WHEN consuming alcohol are artificial. Chemically induced.
I don't think you can replicate "that" high feeling.
To want to do so would be AV trying to convince you that life is no good w/out "that" high feeling.
I can create positive feelings, naturally through exercise, sexual release, watching comedies, or indulging occasionally in death by chocolate cake
But those are genuine feelings caused by actual experiences.
I could be wrong but when the AV coerced you into drinking & you have that "arousal" feeling before hand(as described in RR) that anticipation is the Beast's excitement & joy of the upcoming intoxication.
You can feel what it feels & separate from it.
The actual feelings WHEN consuming alcohol are artificial. Chemically induced.
I don't think you can replicate "that" high feeling.
To want to do so would be AV trying to convince you that life is no good w/out "that" high feeling.
I can create positive feelings, naturally through exercise, sexual release, watching comedies, or indulging occasionally in death by chocolate cake
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sober State
Posts: 1,126
I'm not sure if that's possible. That "arousal" is the Beast. It's like It is exhilarated & triumphant b/c He won the battle against you/your mind. That's what it felt like to me when I look back in retrospect.
I don't know about you, but I am quite content & exhilarated about life in general now.
Now that the Beast is exposed, I have removed the option of drinking ever again & I have control of my life, freedom, serenity & peace. That is intoxicating in itself. To move freely through life, no chains on my mind & soul is all the arousal I need.
I find myself giddy somedays just because.
The war is over & I won!
From that point on, everyday is a celebration to me
I don't know about you, but I am quite content & exhilarated about life in general now.
Now that the Beast is exposed, I have removed the option of drinking ever again & I have control of my life, freedom, serenity & peace. That is intoxicating in itself. To move freely through life, no chains on my mind & soul is all the arousal I need.
I find myself giddy somedays just because.
The war is over & I won!
From that point on, everyday is a celebration to me
How to feel better is not in AVRT, but using AVRT can plow a road to that destination
The best hope "When you decide you're going to drink", is that you enjoy the deep pleasure we all remember, nothing bad happens, and you come out the other end in as good a shape as possible.
Addicted people who decide to drink/use do not have a Big Plan, and are not using AVRT. I think it is meaningless to focus on "moving from negative to positive feeling when you decide you're going to drink" because all such human feeling is about to be overwhelmed by the tsunami of chemically enhanced stupidity.
Kanamit, your other question on "...how you could get those good feelings without going out and getting a drink" also has nothing to do with AVRT.
I believe there are a finite number of types of feelings people can have, but I also believe there are virtually an infinite number of ways that those feelings can be elicited. To me, one aspect of having a fulfilling life involves working to expand the number of ways I can experience good feelings, and it's become obvious to me only I can direct that expansion. So, you have a good question, but I don't think it makes sense to give it more coverage than this on the AVRT thread.
Kanamit, you posted the AVRT Matrix on this thread about two months ago (post #19).
That simple diagram is the AVRT tool to use to recognize the AV in real time as we get on with life, which may or may not include expanding (or concentrating) the ways we feel humanly good.
AVRT will plow the AV off any road you want to take anytime to anywhere.
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Words are important here, so it's good this is written down.
The best hope "When you decide you're going to drink", is that you enjoy the deep pleasure we all remember, nothing bad happens, and you come out the other end in as good a shape as possible.
Addicted people who decide to drink/use do not have a Big Plan, and are not using AVRT. I think it is meaningless to focus on "moving from negative to positive feeling when you decide you're going to drink" because all such human feeling is about to be overwhelmed by the tsunami of chemically enhanced stupidity.
Kanamit, your other question on "...how you could get those good feelings without going out and getting a drink" also has nothing to do with AVRT.
I believe there are a finite number of types of feelings people can have, but I also believe there are virtually an infinite number of ways that those feelings can be elicited. To me, one aspect of having a fulfilling life involves working to expand the number of ways I can experience good feelings, and it's become obvious to me only I can direct that expansion. So, you have a good question, but I don't think it makes sense to give it more coverage than this on the AVRT thread.
Kanamit, you posted the AVRT Matrix on this thread about two months ago (post #19).
That simple diagram is the AVRT tool to use to recognize the AV in real time as we get on with life, which may or may not include expanding (or concentrating) the ways we feel humanly good.
AVRT will plow the AV off any road you want to take anytime to anywhere.
The best hope "When you decide you're going to drink", is that you enjoy the deep pleasure we all remember, nothing bad happens, and you come out the other end in as good a shape as possible.
Addicted people who decide to drink/use do not have a Big Plan, and are not using AVRT. I think it is meaningless to focus on "moving from negative to positive feeling when you decide you're going to drink" because all such human feeling is about to be overwhelmed by the tsunami of chemically enhanced stupidity.
Kanamit, your other question on "...how you could get those good feelings without going out and getting a drink" also has nothing to do with AVRT.
I believe there are a finite number of types of feelings people can have, but I also believe there are virtually an infinite number of ways that those feelings can be elicited. To me, one aspect of having a fulfilling life involves working to expand the number of ways I can experience good feelings, and it's become obvious to me only I can direct that expansion. So, you have a good question, but I don't think it makes sense to give it more coverage than this on the AVRT thread.
Kanamit, you posted the AVRT Matrix on this thread about two months ago (post #19).
That simple diagram is the AVRT tool to use to recognize the AV in real time as we get on with life, which may or may not include expanding (or concentrating) the ways we feel humanly good.
AVRT will plow the AV off any road you want to take anytime to anywhere.
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It's certainly good to see some interesting discussion going on.
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TU, these threads are great but you need to know the subject matter(read the book) to discuss it properly. I apologize for being thick headed & dragging my feet. It has taken me awhile to read b/c I only had 20 uninterrupted mins/night to devote to it.
Now that I am done, all I can say is WOW! It IS SO worth the time to read it. It made more sense than anything else I've read on addiction.
So you posted a question awhile back, that I was not adequately able to answer at that time.
Can you forget your Big Plan?
No. It would be like forgetting marriage vows.
It is an infinite decision not to be entered into lightly.
Now that I am done, all I can say is WOW! It IS SO worth the time to read it. It made more sense than anything else I've read on addiction.
So you posted a question awhile back, that I was not adequately able to answer at that time.
Can you forget your Big Plan?
No. It would be like forgetting marriage vows.
It is an infinite decision not to be entered into lightly.
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Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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For someone just starting, I would recommend reading the book, reading through this thread from the beginning, posting any further questions they may have, and then reading the book a second time. Granted, knowledge without intent isn't going to get the job done, but if they actually want to quit, this will place them on very solid footing.
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Public holiday here today
Anzac day which is to commemorate the New Zealand and Australian soliders who have fallen fighting (world wars, Vietnam etc).
Day of celebration and for many, bbqs and drinking!
The weather is fine and I've noticed a lot of AV activity today. Lots of suggestions RE buying a bottle of wine and drinking this afternoon.
You've earned it, you've packed up your whole apartment (husband and i are shifting) He would like you to drink with him tonight (my husband)
I recognised this for what it is - I'm not sick or deranged and I dont have a disease, in fact I'm quite well.
The fact the AV is so strong today is not good or bad and just illustrates that i'm healthy and well and enjoying life and my Beast wants the pure PLEASURE that alcohol that brings.
But I dont drink.
Rereading the book again and up to the bit about the Beast that comes back. How the Beast will never accept that I'm not going to drink.
It sure is squirming today
Anzac day which is to commemorate the New Zealand and Australian soliders who have fallen fighting (world wars, Vietnam etc).
Day of celebration and for many, bbqs and drinking!
The weather is fine and I've noticed a lot of AV activity today. Lots of suggestions RE buying a bottle of wine and drinking this afternoon.
You've earned it, you've packed up your whole apartment (husband and i are shifting) He would like you to drink with him tonight (my husband)
I recognised this for what it is - I'm not sick or deranged and I dont have a disease, in fact I'm quite well.
The fact the AV is so strong today is not good or bad and just illustrates that i'm healthy and well and enjoying life and my Beast wants the pure PLEASURE that alcohol that brings.
But I dont drink.
Rereading the book again and up to the bit about the Beast that comes back. How the Beast will never accept that I'm not going to drink.
It sure is squirming today
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
TU, these threads are great but you need to know the subject matter(read the book) to discuss it properly.
Having encountered AVRT after I quit, it resonated with me because I could see that a huge number of people use this paradigm to quit, not just a quiet few.
Originally Posted by Peta
I recognised this for what it is - I'm not sick or deranged and I dont have a disease, in fact I'm quite well.
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