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Dalia 01-17-2012 02:19 AM

Afraid to make big plan
 
I have been reading and following the AVRT threads. Thanks all and TU. They speak to me. I have the RR book and I think I get it, or at least kind of. I will make one and only one big plan. I'm just afraid to do it. I know that is beast.

lostbutterfly 01-17-2012 03:42 AM

Yes, it is. Your beast is terrified and is going to make a LOT of noise when it thinks you are going to do something that will deprive it of it's precious alcohol. Go for it!

DarrenW 01-17-2012 01:47 PM

Is the BIG plan just saying that you will never drink again...and that no matter what you will never change your mind?? Or is it a detailed plan?

Dalia 01-18-2012 08:30 AM

It's a big plan just as you indicate (not a detailed one).

pangur 01-24-2012 06:10 AM

I've been struggling with the issue recently too, only today I realized, the "Big Plan" isn't that big. Just deny the Beast any booze for the rest of my life, no 12 steps, no guilt or shame, just abstain.

I'm still reading, the beast wants me to stop, but I'm going to do this.

Terminally Unique 01-24-2012 11:10 PM


Originally Posted by pangur (Post 3254577)
I've been struggling with the issue recently too, only today I realized, the "Big Plan" isn't that big. Just deny the Beast any booze for the rest of my life, no 12 steps, no guilt or shame, just abstain.

While you are mostly correct, Pangur, there is one thing you may have overlooked. With AVRT, drinking, in and of itself, is indeed a moral issue, and an AVRT-style "moral inventory" contains the very thing that no "fearless moral inventory" ever contains: drinking. While AVRT liberates the human spirit, it strips you of any and all excuses for self-intoxication, and forces you to take a direct, moral hit for every single time you drank spite of your own better judgement. There is freedom and dignity in taking personal responsibility and solving one's own problems, however.

pangur 01-25-2012 05:55 AM


Originally Posted by Terminally Unique (Post 3255502)
While you are mostly correct, Pangur, there is one thing you may have overlooked. With AVRT, drinking, in and of itself, is indeed a moral issue, and an AVRT-style "moral inventory" contains the very thing that no "fearless moral inventory" ever contains: drinking. While AVRT liberates the human spirit, it strips you of any and all excuses for self-intoxication, and forces you to take a direct, moral hit for every single time you drank spite of your own better judgement. There is freedom and dignity in taking personal responsibility and solving one's own problems, however.

I'm not looking for a "get out of jail free" card, if that's what you were talking about.
Perhaps I can explain it better with a blast from the past. Early 1980's Catholic confession. Groups of us, we used to trade sins, just to keep the priests satisfied, every week we were marched down there, and God help us if we didn't have a few sins to confess. We sat there making up all sorts of BS, just to be processed. We also had the penance (yes, we were all sinners, but most of the sins were a fabrication).
I'm old enough to take responsibility for my actions, reflect on the trouble I've caused others etc. To be honest, for me to be a success story in certain treatments I have 2 choices.
1) Make stuff up.
2) Continue drinking until I'm at the point that I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

I hope that makes sense. A lot of people are sitting back thinking that I'm in denial or I'm not worthy of quitting yet. But, it's my choice to stop, now, all I've met so far is resistance, not on SR exactly, but from family and friends. I'm not at the rock-bottom yet, why should I strive to go there?

ThisIsDANIEL 01-31-2012 01:56 PM

I think in the book he says you do not have to really make a big plan... its either something that is gonna come naturally to you or it will not. But, you can still stop.

The most important thing to incorporate, IMO, is telling the beast you do not use NOW. Whenever Now may be.

Terminally Unique 01-31-2012 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by ThisIsDANIEL (Post 3263791)
I think in the book he says you do not have to really make a big plan...

"In the logic of AVRT, the absence of a plan to quit for good is a plan, now, to drink." (RR: TNC, Page 134)

"Without a Big Plan, there is no AVRT." (The Art of AVRT, Page 48)

UofI2008 01-31-2012 05:05 PM

My beast, hated when I told it that I'm quitting forever and no one or thing could stop me, especially not him. It's painful but liberating if you can really accept it as fact.

I think I'm lucky however, because everyone I know that has quit did it on their own. When I asked them what they did they just said, "quit". I thought it was stupid and kind of snide at first. Then I realized all you really have to do is never, no matter what, drink again.

Terminally Unique 02-01-2012 05:04 AM

There is a reason that I have recommended, over and over again, that people read the RR book twice, paying close attention to the exercises the second time around. The Addictive Voice organizes your thoughts around the addictive mandate, and until exposed, appears to be you.

This illusion is so pervasive that people literally make life-altering decisions, such as what field to work in, where to live, and who to marry, based on what that stupid voice says. The Big Plan forces an I/It split, and it is only in this context that the AV will truly stand out for recognition.

I know the part of the book that ThisIsDANIEL refers to, where the author says that you don't have to make a Big Plan. What he means is that AVRT cannot be forced, and that you are free to use AVRT, or not. Like a good Beast, reading over his shoulder, though, Daniel's has found a loophole. This is not unusual, however, and I fully expect that the AV will necessarily chime in and affect one's perceptions during a first read-through of the book.

If you are still here, Daniel, I recommend that you read through the book again, this time in your right mind. You may also want to read through the AVRT threads on here. Feel free to post any questions you may have in those threads.

IAmAbstinent 02-01-2012 11:35 AM

Funny as others may remember a cpl of weeks ago I was scoffing at the big plan but today with the beast having got one over on me again I am ready to say I WILL NEVER TAKE DRUGS AGAIN AND I WILL NEVER CHANGE MY MIND. :)

topspin 02-01-2012 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by Terminally Unique (Post 3264562)
There is a reason that I have recommended, over and over again, that people read the RR book twice, paying close attention to the exercises the second time around. The Addictive Voice organizes your thoughts around the addictive mandate, and until exposed, appears to be you.

This illusion is so pervasive that people literally make life-altering decisions, such as what field to work in, where to live, and who to marry, based on what that stupid voice says. The Big Plan forces an I/It split, and it is only in this context that the AV will truly stand out for recognition.

.

thinking back, .....this is so true in my experience.

UofI2008 02-02-2012 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by topspin (Post 3265432)
thinking back, .....this is so true in my experience.

I was just going to say this. Looking back it is amazing how much I let the voice alter my own decisions. It still tries to sneak back in and make confounding arguements about why what I am doing is not "sober". Even though I am not drinking it tries to take things I learned, I wish I could unlearn them, from 12 step programs and turn them on me to prove I should drink. For example, in treatment I was taught that "we addicts" should try to stay away from any behaviours that could possibly become compulsive. One example is sex. Everytime I sleep with my signifigant other the voice starts talking to me telling me I am a sex addict and since I broke "sobriety" I need to get drunk. Lol, in reality I'm anything but a sex addict, but that pesky voice sure tries to tell me I am.

Terminally Unique 02-02-2012 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by UofI2008 (Post 3266081)
[The AV] still tries to sneak back in and make confounding arguments about why what I am doing is not "sober". Even though I am not drinking it tries to take things I learned, I wish I could unlearn them, from 12 step programs and turn them on me to prove I should drink.

Your Addictive Voice has been fortified with 1001 excuses to drink again, and it is going to pump them back at you for quite a while, possibly.

justhadenough 02-04-2012 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by Terminally Unique (Post 3264562)
There is a reason that I have recommended, over and over again, that people read the RR book twice, paying close attention to the exercises the second time around. The Addictive Voice organizes your thoughts around the addictive mandate, and until exposed, appears to be you.

This illusion is so pervasive that people literally make life-altering decisions, such as what field to work in, where to live, and who to marry, based on what that stupid voice says. The Big Plan forces an I/It split, and it is only in this context that the AV will truly stand out for recognition.

I know the part of the book that ThisIsDANIEL refers to, where the author says that you don't have to make a Big Plan. What he means is that AVRT cannot be forced, and that you are free to use AVRT, or not. Like a good Beast, reading over his shoulder, though, Daniel's has found a loophole. This is not unusual, however, and I fully expect that the AV will necessarily chime in and affect one's perceptions during a first read-through of the book.

If you are still here, Daniel, I recommend that you read through the book again, this time in your right mind. You may also want to read through the AVRT threads on here. Feel free to post any questions you may have in those threads.

THanks for this TU. I read RR 3 weeks ago and found it very helpful but have had bad cravings tonight. I did not drink but realize I am not ignoring the beast properly. I will start to read the book again tomorrow

Dalia 08-20-2012 12:43 PM

Still here, trying to get with the program.

freshstart57 08-21-2012 06:41 AM

Hi, Dalia, good for you, it's great to see you here, but I get the feeling that you would prefer it under different circumstances. There is support here for you, as always.

RobbyRobot 08-21-2012 03:13 PM


Originally Posted by Dalia (Post 3541470)
Still here, trying to get with the program.

Awesome. Perhaps speak a bit to what is got you fearing your fear?! Alot of times, our knowning from others experiences we can find jewels for ourselves, and the fears can be processed out. We often have more courage at our command then we acknowledge within ourselves.

The Beast can be made into an almost nothing of an AV. Its not torture to kick the Beast down and enjoy the freedoms of living a sans-alcohol life. :)

hypochondriac 08-21-2012 03:24 PM

For me the beauty of the big plan was that even though I was scared I knew that all those nagging doubts were the beast. I didn't need to be 100% sure. I suppose my need to not drink was pretty strong... I had a definite it's now or never feeling... but it was very flat, not revelatory at all. I had all the doubts and that, they just die down as time goes on.

Glad you're still here trying Dalia :) x


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